Open limping is it always wrong?

Scouser in Dub

Seen a few posts on boards suggesting you should never open limp and I see the logic in the arguments, Fuzz especially made the point especially well in the context of cash 6max.

What about though those times with small/medium pocket pairs in early position when if you raise and are re-reaised there aren't enough chips behind to play for set value but if you open limp and are raised 4BB you still do? I know doing this you are giving up on winning the pot preflop and may find yourself in multiway pot oop but if you are playing for set value only is that not compensated for when you do hit your set and get greater value for it?

delanec8

Scouser in Dub wrote:

Seen a few posts on boards suggesting you should never open limp and I see the logic in the arguments, Fuzz especially made the point especially well in the context of cash 6max.

What about though those times with small/medium pocket pairs in early position when if you raise and are re-reaised there aren't enough chips behind to play for set value but if you open limp and are raised 4BB you still do? I know doing this you are giving up on winning the pot preflop and may find yourself in multiway pot oop but if you are playing for set value only is that not compensated for when you do hit your set and get greater value for it?

A lot of players only do this with small PPs, and as such, against a decent player set value is diminished, because if their cbet does not get through they will suspect a set and play cautiously from then on, unless they beat a set of course.

opr

Scouser in Dub wrote:

Seen a few posts on boards suggesting you should never open limp and I see the logic in the arguments, Fuzz especially made the point especially well in the context of cash 6max.

What about though those times with small/medium pocket pairs in early position when if you raise and are re-reaised there aren't enough chips behind to play for set value but if you open limp and are raised 4BB you still do? I know doing this you are giving up on winning the pot preflop and may find yourself in multiway pot oop but if you are playing for set value only is that not compensated for when you do hit your set and get greater value for it?

Your main problem here is that your hand is so transparent. This effects loads of other things.

A few things

1/ I raise in EP i am representing a strong hand , alot of the time i will take the pot down with a c/b on the flop even if i am called.

2/ Limp call from a EP player and my firsts thoughts are low PP which make it much easier for me to lay down the hand if the action heats up.

3/ Your hand range for raising in EP is now a really small basket which means better player will noitce this. ( Read the thread with the article from Jman that Robin posted about this )

4/ We win the pot from EP preflop.

5/ If it does get limped around and you flop a set it is harder to get paid as people tend to go broke less often in limped pots.

I think these advantages far outweight the amount of times when we raise and get reraised and don't have the implied odds to call.

Opr

Macspower

I'm never a fan of open limping but sometimes I do limp from Ep with PP as you suggested. two hands of note happened today. I limped in EP with 55 villan raised it from the button. I called. Flop A95. I checked he bet, I called. he checked the tuen I bet and won a fairly small pot. About an hour later. I raised with 88 from EP. 2 callers. flop 8AJ. I bet out villan 1 called and villan 2 RR me all in with AJ. I won a monster pot.

Just my 2c worh

Mac

Scouser in Dub

Thanks for the replies, I never really open limp I either raise or dump but at the small stakes I play I regularly see people stacking off with over pairs and TPTK and I wondered whether I am losing value with small pairs that would bust them if they hit.

ianmc38

1. Limp calling small pairs makes your hand far too transparent against any half decent player

2. Open raising small pairs means the pots you play when you hit a set will be much bigger, making it much easier to stack someone