One rule for us....

VERYinterested

I work in a building on Harcourt Street and after nearly being knocked down this morning by a Garda (In a Private Car) exiting the gates of Harcourt Square, I wandered down the street and observed all the cars parked on the footpath and in the 'Coach Only' area and the Loading Bay and asked myself how do they get away with it? There is a traffic light that governs traffic exiting the Garda HQ but regularly cars come out against the red light, like this morning when I was crossing Hatch Street. I can't understand why traders don't object to the Loading Bay being constantly blocked by Special Branch and Private Cars and as for the coach area?? Regularly coaches have to double park to drop off punters to the Harcourt Hotel and force traffic that wants to go down Harcourt Street into the path of oncoming trams. I know the Gardai have to park somewhere, but surely not at the cost of safety!

_Kaiser_

VERYinterested wrote:

I can't understand why traders don't object to the Loading Bay being constantly blocked by Special Branch and Private Cars and as for the coach area?? Regularly coaches have to double park to drop off punters to the Harcourt Hotel and force traffic that wants to go down Harcourt Street into the path of oncoming trams. I know the Gardai have to park somewhere, but surely not at the cost of safety!

The reason that people don't object is precisely because (as you say in the title), it IS one rule for us, and another for our boys n girls in blue! :rolleyes:

It's ironic that while the police are seen in other countries as servants of the people ("protect and serve" anyone?), here it's the other way around, and if you object you make yourself a target for petty harassment and intimidation so people just have to put up with it.

But that's what happens when you have a largely amateurish and unprofessional police squad with no independent oversight or accountability.

(No doubt all the pro-Garda boardsies will jump in to explain that it's a hard job, and maybe they were on their way to a call, and they're allowed to break the law in certain circumstances - all true, but I think we all know that there ARE Gardai who blatently abuse the "power" granted them).

Final thought: just because something is the way it is, doesn't mean it's acceptable, and it's the "give out in the pub/to our mates but just put up with it" attitude that we Irish have as a nation that explains the corruption and incompetence in many of our state institutions and government.

r3nu4l

Kaiser2000 wrote:

It's ironic that while the police are seen in other countries as servants of the people ("protect and serve" anyone?), here it's the other way around, and if you object you make yourself a target for petty harassment and intimidation so people just have to put up with it.

Hmm, I'd rather petty harrassment than a Rodney King style beating from those 'protect and serve' folk :rolleyes:

Also, police in the UK regularly park in loading bays, coach stops and all sorts of places they are not supposed to, it's not just the Gardaí. I love (not really!) people who run down the gardaí and then think that every other police force the world over is so much better.

There are undoubtably better police services out there but there are far worse too...Zimbabwe springs to mind

Now, I'm no fan of the gardaí, there are plenty who overstep the mark but to compare them to other services and say they are worse is ludicrous.

robfitz

Members of the Garda Siochana are exemt form a large amount of road traffic legislation.

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations, 1998, Article 5
...
(2) A prohibition or restriction imposed by these Regulations shall not apply to the driver of a fire brigade vehicle or an ambulance or to the use by a member of the Garda Siochana of a vehicle in the performance of the duties of that member, where such use does not thereby endanger the safety of road users.
...

OldmanMondeo

That's fine, but the OP is talking about Private Cars and Parking when the Guard's are in the station doing the admin work. I remember reading in the Herald a number years ago about the Guard's going mad because a load of them got clamped/tickets.

whippet

the key to that bit is 'in performance of their duties' .. a privately owned car parked in the loading bay while the guard on duty is sitting behind the desk of harcourt police station does not qualify.

We all know that a proportion of the gardai in ireland have abused their powers, everything from sirens on to avoid heavy traffic, a few free pints in the local (so as not to strictly enforce closing times), free lunches etc .. its probably the same as most police forces around the world.

The whole donegal saga proved that the corruption and abuse of powers runs from the top down. A member of the force who was found to be corrupt and unable to judge other members charachters in donegal landed a cusdhy number interviewing potential reserve recruits. Perhaps that was a good idea, he would have been able to spot potential whistleblowers and eliminated them.

I am sure that a good number of us have heard personal stories of intimidation, corruption and general abuse of powers, but while there isn't any offical body capable or interested in tackling these problems there isn't a whole lot we can do about it except complain.

VERYinterested

Does this mean they can park their own private cars in loading bays and coach parks while they perform their daily duties? I apreciate that a squad car may need to park on double yellows and practically anywhere whilst carrying out duties.
Parking on footpaths endangers pedestrians as they unnecessarily have to go on to the road to get around said cars. Parking Private cars in coach parks and loading bays mean that legitimate vehicles have to double park and block the road and traffic has to cross into the path of the Luas which goes against 'where such use does not thereby endanger the safety of road users.' I bet if Ambulance and Fire Brigade drivers parked their own cars in a forbidden place they wouldn't be long about being clamped/towed.

G Luxel

Ive seen garda cars park on double yellows lines and seeing the offenders purchasing sandwiches etc. This is not part of their duty and it is not an emergency.

Another time I saw a traffic warden being told by a garda not to ticket certain private cars outside a certain garda station, which was a disc parking zone ,that they were being used for their work, well he didnt want them getting any tickets. The warden was shown each car and told that they were being used as part of an investigation........... into what? i dont know, but they should have left their cars at home. There were enough garda cars outside the station.

fits

They are not private cars, they are unmarked cars. And as far as I know the coach signs were put there for them it was a double yellow before that. If they marked the area as garda parking only, then the cars would be more easily identifiable (as if they arent already, I know).
This is going on for years... I personally have no problem with it.

Tipsy Mac

If it's a private car it has an insurance disc, if it's a Garda undercover or special branch car it does not.

miju

how do you know all those cars arent unmarked cars

Tipsy Mac wrote:

If it's a private car it has an insurance disc, if it's a Garda undercover or special branch car it does not.

are you 100% sure on that?

fits

They are unmarked cars, for definite, but obviously the op would rather they had 'special branch parking here' signs on the roads:rolleyes:

Mitch Connor

fits wrote:

They are unmarked cars, for definite, but obviously the op would rather they had 'special branch parking here' signs on the roads:rolleyes:

that is not a relevant argument though. If they are parked illegally according to the signage, what message does it send out to the average person that sees them getting away with it? They should have to obey the laws of the land like everyone else is expectde to, could i turn up in court and say "Well, i was parked in a coach bay, but i didn't think it actually ment it was a coach bay" and then expect to be let off m parking fine?

fits

There is nothing about harcourt street station that marks it as a garda station though. The road markings where the gardai park was changed recently to 'coach parking'. I presume there is a good reason for this, such as having them less easily identifiable I suppose, and to keep the spaces free for them. If you have a problem with it, thats fair enough. I dont.

yawara

It's very easy to criticise the Gardai these days, however i think we need to stop and realise that yes indeed they ARE doing a tough job even though their numbers are terrible compared to the amount of people who have come to the city in the past 10 years or so etc etc. So if they need to double park or park in a loading bay for some reason or even regularly maybe the reason is because the stations, which aren't modern ones with spacious facilities for parking, are old and just can't handle the capacity required for a busy city centre police station. in summary i think this is nit picking, really it's not bothering anyone and at the end of the day with such an important job where split seconds count, do you want a guard to be waiting at a car park traffic light while a scum bag has a knife to your throat??(just an example of course!)

hawker

whippet wrote:

We all know that a proportion of the gardai in ireland have abused their powers, everything from sirens on to avoid heavy traffic, a few free pints in the local (so as not to strictly enforce closing times), free lunches etc .. its probably the same as most police forces around the world.

The whole donegal saga proved that the corruption and abuse of powers runs from the top down. A member of the force who was found to be corrupt and unable to judge other members charachters in donegal landed a cusdhy number interviewing potential reserve recruits. Perhaps that was a good idea, he would have been able to spot potential whistleblowers and eliminated them.

You obviously have first hand experience of seeing guards turning on sirens for lunch and getting free lunches?

Comparing the goings on in Donegal with a few 'wrongly' parking cars is laughable.

whippet

hawker wrote:

You obviously have first hand experience of seeing guards turning on sirens for lunch and getting free lunches?

Comparing the goings on in Donegal with a few 'wrongly' parking cars is laughable.

It is not laughable .. the ethos within the force of being above the law and untouchable stems from the top and dictates the attitudes of those members who feel they can park where ever they like.


I do have first hand experience, in fact I have first hand experience of a new squad car being written off as the driver wanted to 'see what it can do' !!!

I have worked in a hotel as a student where by the local cops used to call in 'to check everything was alright' most night at about 2am, eat a couple of sandwiches maybe a pint free of charge .. yet the public bar was still serving away until the small hours.

To quote yarara ... cars owned privately by guards will not be the car that they use to come rushing to your aid if someone had a knife to your neck .. actually these illegally parked cars could hinder the squad cars getting out of the station to rescue you.

The guards are not the only people in this country who work hard. If I had a job in the city centre I would have to pay dearly for parking my car all day long, guards do not have to use nor do they use their private cars while on duty so there is no reason for them to be allowed park where they want. They can get the Dart, Train, Bus, Cycle or walk like the rest of us to our place of employment.

It is a blatent abuse of power end of story.

fits

As far as I'm concerned, that 'coach parking' area is designated for those unmarked garda cars. Would you rather they drive around aimlessly looking for a free space? get their parking ticket and claim the money back from expenses? Thats laughable bureacracy to me, nevermind a waste of taxpayers money. They're not causing any obstruction or hassle where they are. This is just serious nitpicking. There are many more serious things to be concerned about in our police force than this.

miju

whippet wrote:

I do have first hand experience, in fact I have first hand experience of a new squad car being written off as the driver wanted to 'see what it can do' !!!

and i suppose the garda told you that then did he :rolleyes: . and again the OP hasn't stated how he knows the cars are private cars and not unmarked cars

Mitch Connor

private or unmarked - they aren't parked legally.

stovelid

Tipsy Mac wrote:

If it's a private car it has an insurance disc, if it's a Garda undercover or special branch car it does not.

Not saying I know better Tipsy but wouldn't this just more easily identify the car as a Garda vehicle?

miju

Tauren wrote:

private or unmarked - they aren't parked legally.

well thats were your wrong private cars may be parked illegaly and unmarked car would be legally parked as it would be "in the course of duties"

whippet

miju wrote:

and i suppose the garda told you that then did he :rolleyes: .

he did, and he told the recovery truck driver who cleaned up afterwards

yawara

... cars owned privately by guards will not be the car that they use to come rushing to your aid if someone had a knife to your neck .. actually these illegally parked cars could hinder the squad cars getting out of the station to rescue you.
obviously the cars won't be parked in the way to obstruct the official Garda cars....thats just ridiculous, the guys just have to park somewhere! ok, fair point, maybe (if they don't already pay) they should be made pay in pay and display area's that require it if it's a private car.
The guards are not the only people in this country who work hard. If I had a job in the city centre I would have to pay dearly for parking my car all day long, guards do not have to use nor do they use their private cars while on duty so there is no reason for them to be allowed park where they want. They can get the Dart, Train, Bus, Cycle or walk like the rest of us to our place of employment.

the guards have to live a certain distance away from the station/area they work in. a car is wuite essential since most dublin guards are from the country.

and another obvious point......of course there are other jobs in which people work hard.....this is just one of the more demanding ones(and also there are other 'more demanding ones'( to clear any future nit picking replies))

miju

whippet wrote:

he did, and he told the recovery truck driver who cleaned up afterwards

sorry i very much doubt he / she said that

Mitch Connor

miju wrote:

well thats were your wrong private cars may be parked illegaly and unmarked car would be legally parked as it would be "in the course of duties"

not all unmarked cars are going to be "in the course of duties", some will just be parked.

whippet

miju wrote:

sorry i very much doubt he / she said that

believe what you like .. the guard in question is a friend and teammate of mine.

_Kaiser_

yawara wrote:

It's very easy to criticise the Gardai these days

And with good reason as the never-ending reports of Garda corruption, harassment allegations, and incompetence would indicate

however i think we need to stop and realise that yes indeed they ARE doing a tough job even though their numbers are terrible compared to the amount of people who have come to the city in the past 10 years or so etc etc.

No argument there. I don't think anyone would dispute there'd a definite need for more Gardai.

So if they need to double park or park in a loading bay for some reason or even regularly maybe the reason is because the stations, which aren't modern ones with spacious facilities for parking, are old and just can't handle the capacity required for a busy city centre police station.

In short - tough. There's thousands of people who work in town who'd love to park right outside the office, but the very same reasons you mention mean that they have to park streets away (and no doubt pay a fortune for the "privilege"), or who just have to commute by bus/train instead.

You seem to be suggesting that the Gardai should be able to break the rules, simply because they ARE Gardai. Whilst they are exempt from many of the road traffic laws, they're not untouchable or a "higher" class than the rest of us (although, I'll grant you there are Gardai that THINK they are). By all accounts these illegally parked cars are also constituting a hazard to other road users, which I'm sure there's NO exemption from. Indeed, if anything, they should be leading by example and we all know if you or I parked our car there, they'd have no qualms in impounding it very swiftly.

in summary i think this is nit picking, really it's not bothering anyone and at the end of the day with such an important job where split seconds count, do you want a guard to be waiting at a car park traffic light while a scum bag has a knife to your throat??(just an example of course!)

It may be a relatively minor point in the grand scheme of the problems within the Gardai, but I think the OP (and others) have shown that this IS "bothering" others, and - as I mentioned above - causing a potentially hazardous situation.

We've already established they are exempt from many of the road traffic regulation when performing their duties, but I've yet to see how the OP's story/examples qualifies in this regard.

Marcus.Aurelius

While Gardai are not exempt from fines, they probably have no choice. Have you seen the carpark at the Garda Station?! They may have a dispensation from the chief there. That makes it a Govt issue, take it up with the next canvasser

_Kaiser_

maoleary wrote:

While Gardai are not exempt from fines, they probably have no choice. Have you seen the carpark at the Garda Station?! They may have a dispensation from the chief there. That makes it a Govt issue, take it up with the next canvasser

Ah yes.. the "Chief's dispensation". The same thing that lets unqualified Guards drive high-performance squad cars! :rolleyes:

Gurgle

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Ah yes.. the "Chief's dispensation". The same thing that lets unqualified Guards drive high-performance squad cars! :rolleyes:

Huh?
A 17 yo with a provisional license can drive a Lotus Elise.

_Kaiser_

Gurgle wrote:

Huh?
A 17 yo with a provisional license can drive a Lotus Elise.

Well unless they've changed it since the story that ran a few months back/last year, the Gardai are SUPPOSED to go on an Advanced Driving Course before getting behind the wheel of a squad car. However they can get around this by getting the "Chief's dispensation".

It doesn't say very much about the Gardai's credibility when they can so easily break their own rules and regulations does it?

miju

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Well unless they've changed it since the story that ran a few months back/last year, the Gardai are SUPPOSED to go on an Advanced Driving Course before getting behind the wheel of a squad car. However they can get around this by getting the "Chief's dispensation".

I can 100% assure you that theres way more to it than someone higher up letting em go on a joyride :rolleyes:

Tauren wrote:

not all unmarked cars are going to be "in the course of duties", some will just be parked.

in the course of duties doesnt mean driving those same duties could be at a desk for a few hours writing reports etc , etc stop pbeing so anal

Mitch Connor

miju wrote:

I can 100% assure you that theres way more to it than someone higher up letting em go on a joyride :rolleyes:



in the course of duties doesnt mean driving those same duties could be at a desk for a few hours writing reports etc , etc stop pbeing so anal

so they should be allowed to park illegally so they can sit in the station writing reports?? I'm sure my girlfriend would love to be allowed park illegally without punishment while she is working helping to save people's lives as a nurse, but no - she has to arrive over an hour before work to get free parking. Is writing reports more important then helping to save lives?

yawara

Alot of hearsay is being thrown around here. The main issue is that the parking situation in the city is disgraceful. how does any one here know that guards civilian cars don't get tickets when they are in work?? any way people abuse power no matter who they are....gardai, dublin corporation or even ticket collectors on trains!! It's human nature! this obviously doesnt mean we have to accept the abuse but it does mean that pointing blame at one particualr job isn't right. i don't think theres much left to say on this. it's up to dublin city council to sort the parking situation.:D here's hoping!!

unkel

yawara wrote:

i don't think theres much left to say on this

I agree. Closed.