How much should I be paid?

TheMoralist

I don't know if this is the right place to post this...

I think I'm being under-paid. The job site salary surveys are useless to me because they all say different things. My salary could vary between €30,000 and 60,000 depending on how you interpret them. So I thought I'd spell it out here and see what people think I should be paid.

- I have a first class honors degree in computer science.
- I have 3 years and 8 months experience working in IT. 2 years and 3 months of that are with my current employer.
- I'm a programmer that develops web solutions for high profile clients such as major world banks.
- I'll frequently lead a team of "builders" that do the grunt work.
- I'm hardly ever client-facing.
- I am expert in Flash, HTML, CSS, Javascript (proper front end stuff using modern javascript libraries like prototype etc) and other proprietary technologies specific to our line of work.
- I have a working knowledge of ASP.NET / SQLServer, and I'm starting to make use of it in work.
- I have no problems doing unpaid overtime. Sometimes I work on the weekends.
- I have a vast knowledge of a good few of my current company's products - because I designed, built and maintain them.
- I'm liked and respected by everyone in my current workplace.

So what am I worth?

damnyanks

45k

Just a figure I made from reading your post. I'm no expert

funktastic

TheMoralist wrote:

I don't know if this is the right place to post this...

I think I'm being under-paid. The job site salary surveys are useless to me because they all say different things. My salary could vary between €30,000 and 60,000 depending on how you interpret them. So I thought I'd spell it out here and see what people think I should be paid.

- I have a first class honors degree in computer science.
- I have 3 years and 8 months experience working in IT. 2 years and 3 months of that are with my current employer.
- I'm a programmer that develops web solutions for high profile clients such as major world banks.
- I'll frequently lead a team of "builders" that do the grunt work.
- I'm hardly ever client-facing.
- I am expert in Flash, HTML, CSS, Javascript (proper front end stuff using modern javascript libraries like prototype etc) and other proprietary technologies specific to our line of work.
- I have a working knowledge of ASP.NET / SQLServer, and I'm starting to make use of it in work.
- I have no problems doing unpaid overtime. Sometimes I work on the weekends.
- I have a vast knowledge of a good few of my current company's products - because I designed, built and maintain them.
- I'm liked and respected by everyone in my current workplace.

So what am I worth?

Sorry, but that's pretty much all bollox really. What did you do in college, what were you projects like? What's your focus? Web? Flash HTML and CSS will get you no-where really, it's more of a hobby. Have you experience in J2EE, struts. spring, hibernate, jsp or anything if you're into web development. I'd rate you at 24-26 if you get the job done and show interest, but you'd have to be learning those things for a start. The 1st will get you the interview, but you have to show your experience with more advanced coding really. You could get up to 32k after a year if you know everything i've mentioned, and that'd be generous. You haven't mentioned what your experience is in though, so that's up in the air.

satchmo

TheMoralist wrote:

I think I'm being under-paid.

When was the last time you asked for a pay-rise?

OfflerCrocGod

So your a web-programmer? I was under the impression that was low payed work.

Trojan

funktastic wrote:

I'd rate you at 24-26 if you get the job done and show interest... (snip).... You could get up to 32k after a year if you know everything i've mentioned, and that'd be generous.

This is Ireland we're talking about, not eastern Europe. You'd be very lucky to get a graduate programmer with 1st class honours degree for only 24k here, never mind 3+ years of experience including team lead.

I certainly wouldn't like to work for you, but as a business owner I'd be delighted that you'd price yourself so competitively.

destraynor

I'm a programmer that develops web solutions for high profile clients such as major world banks.

I have a working knowledge of ASP.NET / SQLServer, and I'm starting to make use of it in work.

So what language do you program in?


Programming for the web pays well (it doesn't have to be J2EE, you can get good money doing C#,ASP,Python,PHP, even Perl).

But based on what you've said, I don't think you're a web programmer yet. You're dipping your feet in the water, whilst developing front end web GUIs, which whilst necessary isn't high paying work.

If I'm correct I'd say 28-35K, but thats primarily because of the fact that you've been there a while. I'd hire someone for that position at 25-30K depending on relevant experience.

If you're designing the GUIs yourself, then it's a well paying job, especially if you're good at it.

dal

funktastic wrote:

Sorry, but that's pretty much all bollox really. What did you do in college, what were you projects like? What's your focus? Web? Flash HTML and CSS will get you no-where really, it's more of a hobby. Have you experience in J2EE, struts. spring, hibernate, jsp or anything if you're into web development. I'd rate you at 24-26 if you get the job done and show interest, but you'd have to be learning those things for a start. The 1st will get you the interview, but you have to show your experience with more advanced coding really. You could get up to 32k after a year if you know everything i've mentioned, and that'd be generous. You haven't mentioned what your experience is in though, so that's up in the air.

Sorry, but that's pretty much all bollox really.

Sounds like you might need a salary review funktastic.

seamus

I'm going to be brutally honest here.

TheMoralist wrote:

- I have a first class honors degree in computer science.

That shows you worked hard. That's worth something. It doesn't mean that you're good though.

- I have 3 years and 8 months experience working in IT. 2 years and 3 months of that are with my current employer.

Pittance really in the grand scheme of things, though not insignificant. ~4 years experience though doesn't really say much about how much you're worth, just how much you've done (you could have 3 of those four years sitting on an ISP's tech support).

- I'm a programmer that develops web solutions for high profile clients such as major world banks.
- I'll frequently lead a team of "builders" that do the grunt work.
- I'm hardly ever client-facing.
- I am expert in Flash, HTML, CSS, Javascript (proper front end stuff using modern javascript libraries like prototype etc) and other proprietary technologies specific to our line of work.
- I have a working knowledge of ASP.NET / SQLServer, and I'm starting to make use of it in work.

These don't really add up. You develop web solutions for high-profile clients, except that you don't meet these clients, someone else does all the developing, and you really only know about client-side coding? Or perhaps you've experience with other more marketable web technologies?
HTML, CSS, Javascript and Flash on their own aren't a massively sought-after commodity these days.

- I have no problems doing unpaid overtime. Sometimes I work on the weekends.

Saying this won't make people want to pay you more.

- I have a vast knowledge of a good few of my current company's products - because I designed, built and maintain them.
- I'm liked and respected by everyone in my current workplace.

Nice to have in your current position. Not a whole pile of use outside of it.

You seem to have a very focussed skill set. This can be an asset in the right role, but if you're attempting to get more generalised roles (I.T. Manager, systems administrator), it's going to be a negative.

The amount you can ask depends on what kind of job you want. So?

pH

TheMoralist wrote:

So what am I worth?

You're worth exactly what someone is prepared to pay you, no more no less.

If you are being very underpaid then there are plenty of jobs that you could walk into within 4 weeks that would pay you a lot more money.

If you're slightly underpaid, then a couple of months digging around, and good interviews should turn up a better paid job.

Prepare your CV, get it out there - do some interviews and if the offers start coming in for higher paid jobs then you are certainly currently underpaid.

Hobbes

Trojan wrote:

This is Ireland we're talking about, not eastern Europe. You'd be very lucky to get a graduate programmer with 1st class honours degree for only 24k here, never mind 3+ years of experience including team lead.

23k-26k is starting wage for most grads. Of course thats just salary, doesn't factor in things like medical/life insurance, life assurance, training, other benefits. It's what my place pays and while they have jobs going nearly all the time they fill up those positions quite fast.

Specialized areas pay more. General web design isn't going to get you much (unless the company doesn't know better). Again the job I work in is specialized so if you have the skills to begin with they pay well, otherwise as I quoted but you get 1-2 months training before you even start.

As for it not being Eastern Europe. That's probably a bad way to look at things. These people are also going for those jobs. In my team for example there is 3 Irish people, 1 Spanish, 2 Germans, 2 Indians (in Ireland), 2 Indians (in India), 2 French, 1 Finnish.

The market is wider now, so unless you specialize you risk going up against someone who will work for pittance.

TheMoralist

Many thanks people.

The lowest recommendation was 23K (from Hobbes ). The highest was 45K (from damnyanks).

Well, the boards opinions vary less than the salary survey sites!

Ginger

Suppose I look at my own perspective.. I have a pass degree in computing, a raft of MCPs, 6 years experience as a web dev, with team lead and client facing roles. I have done design, requirements, development, deployment etc.. I work all day every day in .NET

Worked on everything from basic web to enterprise class solutions rolled out to over 50 interconnected sites.

I dont get paid as much as I would like, but the job benefits include health, pension, flexi, casual dress, training allowances and an excellent work environment, laptop, paid phone and excellent travel expenses. I get 31 paid leave days and the option to take 26 extra days as flexi days throughout the year. So for me that definately counts more than what I should be paid... I just put in a for a months leave and it was approved in 5 minutes. It works for me

When i had 3 years experience, I was on about 26K a year + 700 a month in expenses (live away from home allowance) but I was team lead, developing in .NET, also the primary contact for the product to the client and it was developing a product for government rollout. I left to go travel the world and I wasnt too pushed at arguing for a pay increase before I left.

I think that its a case of if you dont fight your case you wont get more. I think you should aim for 32 to 35 at this stage in your career but also make sure that your employer sees this as reasonable and not a jump of 10K!!!

run_Forrest_run

don't take anything from the Job site surveys on salaries. Of course they would want you to be aiming for as much as possible as they get their commission based on your salary..job agencies => poisonous snakes.

run_Forrest_run

you said you designed your company's products (or some of them anyway) well you should elaborate how you went about designing them...did U use a design methodology like UML or something?? If you want to increase your profile then start thinking 'design', any monkey can develop something but it takes experience and a decent head to successfully design an application.

If you feel u are underpaid then leave and go elsewhere but beware it is a very competitive industry now. The IT heyday is over.

Trojan

Hobbes wrote:

23k-26k is starting wage for most grads. Of course thats just salary, doesn't factor in things like medical/life insurance, life assurance, training, other benefits. It's what my place pays and while they have jobs going nearly all the time they fill up those positions quite fast.

Yep, that's exactly where I was coming from, and I still think that if this guy started around that wage (he should have), and now has 3 more years of half decent experience in any normal company (not on the ropes), AND has team lead experience and potential, then you're talking early to mid 30s in most places.

Of course there's always different factors and the experience might be worthless, the team lead experience oversold, etc, etc. But all else being equal that's around the mark.

Hobbes wrote:

As for it not being Eastern Europe. That's probably a bad way to look at things. These people are also going for those jobs. In my team for example there is 3 Irish people, 1 Spanish, 2 Germans, 2 Indians (in Ireland), 2 Indians (in India), 2 French, 1 Finnish.

There's no way in hell an Irish person can price themselves competitively as Eastern Europeans living there, what with the vast difference in cost of living factors.

As for competing with immigrants living here but willing to take lower salaries, I think you need to concentrate on soft-skill differentiators, such as gaining better relationships with clients and other teams, and things like native language skills. It's a tough situation to be in when you know people are willing to undercut you, so all you can do is keep getting better experience and up-skilling.

thewing

Is it time for a 'What do you earn' thread?

The figures people are talking seem low to me.

@ OP - go contracting

Hobbes

Trojan wrote:

Yep, that's exactly where I was coming from, and I still think that if this guy started around that wage (he should have), and now has 3 more years of half decent experience in any normal company (not on the ropes), AND has team lead experience and potential, then you're talking early to mid 30s in most places.

The issue there is you have a person with 3 years experience. That isn't actually a lot, especially if that is starting from a Grad.

Also its a lot of how you read it. I have yet to see a CV (including mine) that isn't garnished in some way.

To me that reads that he has done team leading, but then he only has 3 years experience. It is unlikely he was doing that for three years and if he was for most of the time is likely to be pushed towards that role rather then a development one. Was he team leading groups all the time, or on and off and how for how long? How many, what work was involved in actually leading them (architect, people, scheduling, gets the tea?).

Of course all this sort stuff comes at interview time.

If he started as a grad at say 25 and now he is 35k after three years. That's a 40% increase just for job hopping. I haven't seen anything like that since the dot com days and I doubt companies would keep staff on those level of increases over time. Even 20% would be pushing it.

Just tells me that either the first company is underpaying or the second is overpaying.

The figures people are talking seem low to me.

That is not factoring in benefits and training on the job.

Actually reading again I'd drop "such as major world banks.". Companies get prissy if you start naming their customers to other potential competitors, some cases it can even bias your chance at an interview.

Collumbo

you're skills would command anything from 28-35k (max) per annum.

the fact that this is Dublin is irrelevant - it is easy to find good HTML/CSS/JavaScript people - a lot of them are not even computer science graduates. this means that the salary for such individual will never be at the high end of the ladder.

Sniipe

30000, it would be nicer if you had more than of a working knowledge of ASP, rather than client end stuff like javascript, html, css...
If u were to move to the company I'm in u'd prob get paid about 32000 - 35000. Thats Galway. If you were to move to London, you could get loads and loads and loads more. stick to the banks and stick to ASP.net and SQL.
my 2 cents.
first class honors means nothing, experience is king, and experience in the right field can give u the edge...