should cable barriers be banned

babybundy

just to clear up peoples opinions of the cables

Idleater

almost a no brainer question in this forum.


L.

Thinkingaboutit

Someone voted no:mad: . I for one, don't like the possibility of being cut in two because the NRA wants to save money.

optiplexgx270

They look nice

gsxr1

yeah there lovely looking;) we should put them everywhere.

AsphaltRisin'

hell yeah they should be ripped out immediately, the minute i saw them i thought "Fu*k that's dangerous!". Ridiculously stupid thing to put on a road, the potential for some horrific accident is huge.

optiplexgx270

Have they been a direct cause of injury / death to date?

gsxr1

we should paint them nice colours. pink or blue maybe? we should have a vote. Pink or Blue. i vote blue.

faceman

They were removed from roads in other countries in europe as a result of motorcycle accidents. Sweden being one country.

The Doktor

optiplexgx270 wrote:

Have they been a direct cause of injury / death to date?

There are little or no stats on this. However studies have been done on motorcycle collisions with various types of barriers. The main cause of injuries is the posts stuck in the ground. There are various types of posts (different shapes) and we use the most dangerous type.
Research in California, France and Germany has indicated that the usual accident scenario involving a motorcyclist with a vehicle restraint is that the rider initially loses control and falls from the machine sliding into the barrier or safety fence at a shallow angle. Where safety fence with exposed posts is employed, the greater forward speed of a rider leads to a collision with the post with serious and often fatal consequences. Extremities are readily amputated and major internal injuries caused. A similar collision with a featureless concrete barrier or an additional lower beam which covers the posts, results in a lower sideways impact with the momentum of the rider scrubbed off by contact with the barrier and road surface. If the rider is wearing adequate protective clothing, injuries should be minimised.

With Wire rope type barriers they have more post exposed than any other type, so they are going to do a lot more damage to a rider who hits them
Also there have been studies which shows that in an upright collision with a wire rope barrier the rider is actually directed into the posts. It was found that even in a low speed collision with the barrier (60kph) the rider would get their legs caught in the rope, be then directed to the posts, and thrown over the barrier causing serious and non survivable injuries.
In many European countries they are now starting to use "motorcycle friendly" barrires, which are like the usual armco, but have an added lower barrier to stop the rider hitting the posts. Also in norway, denmark and holland the wire rope barriers have been banned.

faceman

MAG Ireland is campaigning against these barriers.

gsxr1

The Doktor wrote:

There are little or no stats on this. However studies have been done on motorcycle collisions with various types of barriers. The main cause of injuries is the posts stuck in the ground. There are various types of posts (different shapes) and we use the most dangerous type.
Research in California, France and Germany has indicated that the usual accident scenario involving a motorcyclist with a vehicle restraint is that the rider initially loses control and falls from the machine sliding into the barrier or safety fence at a shallow angle. Where safety fence with exposed posts is employed, the greater forward speed of a rider leads to a collision with the post with serious and often fatal consequences. Extremities are readily amputated and major internal injuries caused. A similar collision with a featureless concrete barrier or an additional lower beam which covers the posts, results in a lower sideways impact with the momentum of the rider scrubbed off by contact with the barrier and road surface. If the rider is wearing adequate protective clothing, injuries should be minimised.

With Wire rope type barriers they have more post exposed than any other type, so they are going to do a lot more damage to a rider who hits them
Also there have been studies which shows that in an upright collision with a wire rope barrier the rider is actually directed into the posts. It was found that even in a low speed collision with the barrier (60kph) the rider would get their legs caught in the rope, be then directed to the posts, and thrown over the barrier causing serious and non survivable injuries.
In many European countries they are now starting to use "motorcycle friendly" barrires, which are like the usual armco, but have an added lower barrier to stop the rider hitting the posts. Also in norway, denmark and holland the wire rope barriers have been banned.

i know that screen name. are you the doctor, doctor. i have been polishing like a mad man.(private joke).

The Doktor

gsxr1 wrote:

i know that screen name. are you the doctor, doctor. i have been polishing like a mad man.(private joke).

Yep.. the autoglym doktor...

babybundy

it isnt really a no brainer seen as 5 said no

BigCon

babybundy wrote:

it isnt really a no brainer seen as 5 said no

5 said no, but never gave a reason. Maybe they just don't like bikers?

The Doktor

BigCon wrote:

5 said no, but never gave a reason. Maybe they just don't like bikers?

Was thinkin that meself. I wonder why they voted no??

Idleater

The Doktor wrote:

Was thinkin that meself. I wonder why they voted no??

Actually, rereading the OP, it is not specified which cables should be banned.

For example, some terrases use steel cables as barriers, which can look quite good, ornamentally, and serve a purpose of stopping punters falling into the flowerbed.

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L.

The Doktor

nereid wrote:

Actually, rereading the OP, it is not specified which cables should be banned.

For example, some terrases use steel cables as barriers, which can look quite good, ornamentally, and serve a purpose of stopping punters falling into the flowerbed.

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L.

you`re right there, never thought of that....

Kinetic^

They have to go, so bloody dangerous!!!! :mad:

gsxr1

nereid wrote:

Actually, rereading the OP, it is not specified which cables should be banned.

For example, some terrases use steel cables as barriers, which can look quite good, ornamentally, and serve a purpose of stopping punters falling into the flowerbed.

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L.

bloody hate when lads wreak flower beds. pure vandalism.

optiplexgx270

optiplexgx270 wrote:

They look nice

I gave my reason...

gsxr1

optiplexgx270 wrote:

I gave my reason...

your not a biker. are you.

MrPudding

optiplexgx270 wrote:

I gave my reason...

You did not give a reason, you asked a question. Which the Doktor addressed.

MrP

babybundy

bump

Idleater

babybundy wrote:

bump

I think the reasonably conclusive answer is "YES".

Garibaldi

That lower barrier idea's a good 'un.

Also, it should be noted that the position of the cable barriers on roads in Sweden, where the barriers were removed, is very different to the situation here. On many roads in Sweden, the barriers follow the white line in the centre of the road. No nice, wide central reservation to play with. The potential for actually hitting one was *far* higher there than here.

Mjedl

definately yes, seen them on the Mallow to cork road, and have seen a bike after hitting one, not pretty, they are of low visibilty , markings showing where they start and end are poor.Too risky to have on our roads.

The Doktor

Garibaldi wrote:

That lower barrier idea's a good 'un.

Also, it should be noted that the position of the cable barriers on roads in Sweden, where the barriers were removed, is very different to the situation here. On many roads in Sweden, the barriers follow the white line in the centre of the road. No nice, wide central reservation to play with. The potential for actually hitting one was *far* higher there than here.

Yeah seen that type of 2+1 lane road.. not nice. But we also have a few in the middle of the road, like on the N7 at the rathcoole exit, city bound (i think its that one). It just kinda appears in the road, and if you ever take the exit, specially if you are not used to it, would be easy enough to have a nasty accident.
Read somewhere that we might be getting some of those 2+1 roads... could be wrong though.

No wait.. I was right!... http://nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/GeneralPublications/file,799,en.PDF

And if ya look here, you will see that they are building 2 of em this year and next
http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/SchemeActivity-2006/

Shower of..*****.... get em in before the EU ban em!

gsxr1

what can we do.

Bradidup

gsxr1 wrote:

what can we do.

The Elections are coming up shortly and remember it was those clowns in the Fina Fail Coalition government that were responsible for rushing them in in the first place.

I would think a large demo to publicise the matter would be a good proposition , maybe a gathering at the west link, port tunnels and city centre during rush hour. I can remember the huge Imag backed demonstrations back in the mid 80s with when the Norwich Union had the monopoly and were ripping us off..

Gary ITR

I was on the M4 last week and a biker went tearing past me, I was doing 120 and he went passed me as if I was stopped. A little bit ahead though were the cable barriers and he slowed right down and drove at a reasonable speed and moved into the left lane. So as far as I see they stopped him from driving like an idiot which isn't a totally bad thing

babybundy

ya well not just dublin it should be done all over the country lee tunnel in cork dock road in limerck dock road in waterford and so on

Onkle wrote:

I was on the M4 last week and a biker went tearing past me, I was doing 120 and he went passed me as if I was stopped. A little bit ahead though were the cable barriers and he slowed right down and drove at a reasonable speed and moved into the left lane. So as far as I see they stopped him from driving like an idiot which isn't a totally bad thing

car drivers attitude

Gary ITR

I'm just saying what I saw. Didn't say I was for or against the removal of these barriers.

The Doktor

First thing to do. When they call to your door looking for your vote over the next while. Have a list of questions for them. Ask them where they stand, and what will they do.
As regards the barriers, print out the couple of posts on here with some info regarding the studies done, and how the most dangerous type of post is used in Ireland. Sound like you know what your talking about.
Tell them you want them to come back to you before the election...
more than likely its the last you will ever hear from em...but u can always chase them!
Had some finna fail one call to my door a few weeks ago.. she was just a canvasser (you know the ones.. the aul one with their head up as many asses in the town as possible, so they feel important) asked where they stand, she looked at me like id 3 heads, so told her i wanted to speak to the organgrinder, not the monkey.. ... .. no one has called back...:D
Most people dont call to my door a second time....

Another thing is those steel plates they put over holes in the road.. apparently they are illegal.. but I see em everywhere!!

yayamark

the eu have been on to our government and the nra to have these removed imediately.

i heard that about 2 years ago. no update since.

maybe if we get back on to the eu again they might do something

gsxr1

they wont move them for us. but they may think twice when building new roads. its all about money. there just is not enough of us.
i would take a day of work to go and picket for there removal but i know in my heart the ****e hawks would not listen. i mean this country is so backwards about doing anything. it has to be done the wrong way first.

murphys law came from an irish man.

Idleater

gsxr1 wrote:

murphys law came from an irish man.

Reminds me of O'Tooles corollary:
Murphy was an optimist.

As a complete derrail, there are some other classic "Murphy's Law" corollaries, for example, see here.

L.

Gary ITR

Bradidup wrote:

Why should I have to slow right down to well below our speed limit and ride like a total idiot on inside lane because the NRA failed to make our national roads safe? That is a Gay Byrne attitude.

He wasn't well below the speed limit, I said he slowed to a reasonable speed which was in around the speed limit. I was doing the speed limit and he went past me as if I was stopped, I'd hazard a guess that he was doing 160+

Bradidup

Onkle wrote:

He wasn't well below the speed limit, I said he slowed to a reasonable speed which was in around the speed limit. I was doing the speed limit and he went past me as if I was stopped, I'd hazard a guess that he was doing 160+

Ive changed the note,