How many buy in's before you panic?

Macspower

Playing 1/2 NL. Sufficiently bankrolled. Normally a winning player but I've hit a downswing the last 3 days. I'm loosing buy in after buy in mainly on outdraws and the usual stuff set over set. str8's flushed etc... I've also been missing flops so much with Ak etc.

Doesn't noramly bother me as I always pull back up. I can be several buys in's down and it always swings back up. but his time it seems to be continuing. I decided to try dropping down a level to build back up but finding it hard to take 50/1 seriously.

So I'm back at 1/2 today but the trend is continuing. I don't believe i'm playing badly just running badly. I have 4 tables open at the min and after 3 hours only 1 table is in profit. I'm not loosing total buy in's but am onstantly topping up from 170 etc....

Any opinions advice appreciated

Mac.

Lafortezza

Are you happy that you're playing your A or B+ game? If you think that these recent beats and running bad have put you off your winning game then take a break for a few days, or read up on stuff where you think your weak.

Play a different game? PLO/STT/MTTs.

LuckyLloyd

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[nicK]

drop down to .50/1 to regain the bankroll..

if you can't take it seriously enough, try opening more tables.. you'll be too busy clicking to care about the stakes involved..

whatever you do, don't continue playing 1/2 while your downswing continues.. before you know it you'll be making a crying post on here in a few weeks of how you tilted off you bankroll.. sounds too familiar..

Macspower

Think I've prob changed my game a little alright. Just trying to analyze whats happening on PT and my stats have changed considerably. I normally play 26/14 but yesterday and today I'm playing 18/9 but I think that was a consious decision to tighten up.

lol as I write this my profitable table just got my AA run into JJ on a J82 flop!! doubled up a medium stack.

Anyway going to keep trying.. cant be unlucky all the time

Mac

Macspower

As regards BR I made a withdrawal last week leaving me with 30 buy in's but have about 18 left including the 4 in play..

LuckyLloyd

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phantom_lord

i think that a 10bi downswing is the max one should go through before moving down.

El Stuntman

what's the sum total of your downswing macspower?

Captain Tom

if you're losing consistantly for the last 4 days in 1/2 and you cant take .50/1 seriously then just take a break for a few days.

if you insist on playing 1/2 dont 4 table with an 18 BI bankroll.play 2.

Macspower

sum total is 12 buy in's x 200 each. ie 2400.. altough as we speak I've reduced to 2 tables and am back up about 300 between them....

opr

Captain Tom wrote:

if you insist on playing 1/2 dont 4 table with an 18 BI bankroll.play 2.

I never get why people say this. Variance surely does not increase the more tables you play. If anything because you are playing more tables which means you are playing more hands per hour it should mean it decreases ?

Opr

Ste05

Move down immediately or take a break, seriously, you are not bankrolled for 1/2 and with your frame of mind, (you won't realise it's in the wrong place til it's too late) you are in a dangerous spot. You need to completely forget about Luck and Variance, take a break and come back refreshed, if you've gone from having 30 Buy-In's to 12, it's not just bad luck.

Captain Tom

opr wrote:

I never get why people say this. Variance surely does not increase the more tables you play. If anything because you are playing more tables which means you are playing more hands per hour it should mean it decreases ?

Opr

im not suggesting it will decrease his variance.OP is unwilling to take a break and cannot take .50/1 seriously.therefore if he insists on playing 1/2 i think financially it makes more sense to play 2 tables rather than 4.

opr

Captain Tom wrote:

im not suggesting it will decrease his variance.OP is unwilling to take a break and cannot take .50/1 seriously.therefore if he insists on playing 1/2 i think financially it makes more sense to play 2 tables rather than 4.

Why , What i am saying is that if you have the bankroll to play 1/2 if you can play 20 tables at a time optimally you are at no bigger risk finacially wise than if you are playing 2. Even less IMO because your variance will be lower due to the larger amount of hands you are playing per hour.

Opr

Captain Tom

i see your point but all im saying is if OP continues to run bad then playing 2 tables will have less of an impact on his bankroll than playing 4.playing more tables will obviously decrease his variance but if he continually runs bad/plays bad his will bust his account.

Mr. Flibble

opr wrote:

I never get why people say this. Variance surely does not increase the more tables you play. If anything because you are playing more tables which means you are playing more hands per hour it should mean it decreases ?

Opr

If you are playing badly then it is best to play at less tables, you will lose less. 12 buyins is unlikely to be purely variance. Its easier to play well when at less tables too.

Macspower, you aren't alone. I'm on a $1500 downswing of my own ($600 at 2/4, the rest at 1/2). I panic very easily and am taking a break for a few days and then am only going to play 50/1 until I'm 400, then 1/2 till I'm back up the $1100 before the downswing before going back to 2/4.
Although variance a large part of cause of the downswing, I have been playing badly too so it's easier to make myself drop down. No point pushing the BR limits if you aren't even playing well.

ianmc38

Move up to 5/10 or 10/20 and get it all back with one double up. Easy.

kpnuts

ianmc38 wrote:

Move up to 5/10 or 10/20 and get it all back with one double up. Easy.

omaha especially useful for chasing when you get yourself in a hole. it's twice as easy as holdem, because you get four cards.

kpnuts

jokes aside, I would agree with Ste05's advice, i.e. either take a break or move down stakes. probably both in fact.

Playing off just 20 buy-ins in a 10-12 buy-in downswing is quite risky.

califano

Perhaps its because your snacking habits or lack of these days have put you off kilter?.
Try a jaffa cake as a treat, its what NFR does and they are not too high in the calorie stakes either but NFR went way ott in his battle of the bulge.

I think its easy for people to say "Take a few days off" but your the one out of poker i you do this not them. Thats like saying "Take care now" because your the one that has to do it and they are not going to do it for you.

Captain Tom

rounders123 wrote:

Perhaps its because your snacking habits or lack of these days have put you off kilter?.
Try a jaffa cake as a treat, its what NFR does and they are not too high in the calorie stakes either but NFR went way ott in his battle of the bulge.

I think its easy for people to say "Take a few days off" but your the one out of poker i you do this not them. Thats like saying "Take care now" because your the one that has to do it and they are not going to do it for you.

i dont think anyone implied that it would be easy,just that it would be best.

Macspower

thanks very much guys for the advice. Decided to take Ian's advice and move up to top level and sit down with remainder of BR and get it back in one double up....

seriously though. Although I think it's just bad luck it must aslo be bad play. i noticed that I'm not C betting like I used to due to fear of getting CR'ed. Anyway I've decided to give it a rest for a little while and come back with renewed vigour.
I havn't played live in a few weeks so I'm going to go to the SE for a bit of craic and for a change. So player on downswing available at table 1 of cash game at about 9.30 for all you vultures

Mac

fuzzbox

kpnuts wrote:

omaha especially useful for chasing when you get yourself in a hole. it's twice as easy as holdem, because you get four cards.

its actually 6 times as easy, because there are 6 different hands in your four cards.

ianmc38

kpnuts wrote:

jokes aside, I would agree with Ste05's advice, i.e. either take a break or move down stakes. probably both in fact.

Thats all the advice you need right there mac...

Macspower

Well good and bad news. Went to the SE and got the usual horrible call treatment. RR to 35 with QQ. 1 caller. Flop AKK C bet and had to fold to CRAI to be shown A6!! Then my JJ met oberons Kings. Couldn't put him on them.

Anyway on the brighter side I got home early and managed to steady the ship a bit. I just finished another winning session pulling back another 4 BI's so thats 5 back now. On the road to recovery I hope. Once again thanks for all the advice and support..

btw check out the BB thread to see one of the donks I met tonight

Marq

Move up levels.

Jesus Wept

Play more hands. Call more.

ZZR1100

i find if im on a downswing that taking a break is the best idea and definatly cut down tables as any tilt you are feeling from 1 bad beat on 1 table transfers to all tables.
you mentioned not C betting as often because you are afraid of getting CRaised.this is when you are playing scared. scared of losing another buying which results in losing another buy in and the spiral continues.

Macspower

ZZR your spot on I think. I was playing a bit scared.

For anyone who has done this here's my solution. I've managed to get the ship back afloat today and am back up another 4 buy in's.

This morning I decided before I played a hand I would decide how I was loosing and change something. I opened poker tracker and got a pen and paper and went back through the hand histories and it wasn't just variance. I took note of how I played when loosing and then went back a few weeks to when I was on fire and compared notes. Granted I did get some horrible beats of late but that wan't the main problem.
The main problem I found was a problem with small pots. I normally constantly pick up small pots and "unwanted" pots. I wasn't doing this since I started running bad. I was playing scared and trying to only play the cards I got which at 6 max is not profitable. By not constantly betting at pots I was creating a very tight image and I wasnt getting paid on my big hands. I was complining when I got sucked out on in hands and when my AA wasn't called for a raise of 7. Don't know if this makes any sense to anyone and maybe I'm rambling so I'll stop now.

Anyway after starting this excersise at 11 am I made out some note cards and stood them up beside the screeen and only started playing poker at 2 and am now nearly back up to where I was playing V well and taking the BB's on the chin.

Just as an aside I noticed I wasn't the only one who knew I was playing badly as a few good regulars joined the waiting lists to my tables as soon as I sat down...

Anyway enough for now. Really glad I'm back on track and thanks to you all for your advice.

Mac