SE IO satellite AK hand

brianmc

Blinds 75-150. Early in the tournament.

I have had my rebuy but am back up to just a bit short of the total starting stack. I have 8075 in chips.

I am on the SB.

UTG+2 is a young unknown but appears to be slightly outside his comfort zone. He has just lost a few poorly played pots and is down to 1100 in chips. He open pushes.

UTG+3 is again a relative unknown but is pretty much an open book. He has had AAx2 and KKx2 in the last 20 hands or so and somehow got paid on them. He has raised more than just these four hands but these are the only ones we have seen. He has a stack of about 11K. He min-raises to 2200.

CO-2 is reasonably tight but definitely aggressive. He has a tank of about 9K and spends a couple of minutes speech playing the min-raiser thinking about pushing. The min-raiser IMO seems to have a definite dilemma about whether he could call the push or not. He eventually folds.

It's folded around to me and I have AKo. What's my action?

El Stuntman

brianmc wrote:

The min-raiser IMO seems to have a definite dilemma about whether he could call the push or not.

key point

if you are confident in your read, then shove

ianmc38

based on your read, then shove and pick up that dead money as your range is probably miles ahead of UTG+2

Hitman Actual

I think this is a push as well, but only if you expect weaker Aces in UTG+3 range. Weird min-raise by him, but looks like an isolation play.

valor

shove it

sendic

min raise + not looking happy about a push behind him = midpair/medium ace (?)

nice spot to get it allin, esp if you think he'll fold

ntlbell

lenny_leonard wrote:

I think this is a push as well, but only if you expect weaker Aces in UTG+3 range. Weird min-raise by him, but looks like an isolation play.

Min-Rasing here to isolate is pretty awful.

There's something very suspect about it tho.

I would probably fold.

gocall01

The min raise from a weak player in this situation is "I have a nice hand but I'll drop it like hot snot if a push comes".

I generally love the push here but the weak player can also sometimes fall in love with the mid-pair and call.
Then the AK can be a pain in the ass!

ntlbell

did UTG+2 take his re-buy yet?

Hitman Actual

ntlbell wrote:

Min-Rasing here to isolate is pretty awful.

I agree on that, but it is the SE. I should re-phrase to "looks like a bad isolation play".

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ntlbell

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Or it's AA or KK. Brian noted that the min - raiser looked pained and had a genuine decisionabout whether to call the push or not: "bad players act weak when strong, strong wh..."

You get the idea. It is a satellite. Survive. Fold.

Someone has obviously told Lloyd about his tell and explains why he now _always_ looks like he's in pain. :mad:

El Stuntman

ntlbell wrote:

Someone has obviously told Lloyd about his many and varied tells and explains why he now _always_ looks like he's in pain. :mad:

FYP

you'd be in pain too if you had to deal with that amount of barely suppressed rage

bops

i dont like it - if i had the button i'd probably call, but i think you're up against TT+ (i'm gonna guess QQ)

min raise to the push is too wierd - if he had AA KK he'd probably flat call and hope for someone to go OTT, if he was weaker, say AJ, he might try and isolate properly...i dunno - it's just looks like a race at best

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ollyk1

The more I think about this hand the more I think folding is good.

On the night I probably shove but given everything that's going on and the fact the guy is on a serious rush (and therefore less likely to be bluffing in my experience) the more I think a fold is good. Plus you have to fancy at least one ace is gone which disimproves your hand.

On reflection I fold but at the time I probably overplay AK like the donkey that I am.

brianmc

UTG+2 has had his rebuy. My gut feel is that I crush his range.

UTG+3 is an open book. There's no strong is weak nonsense going on here... well... there is... but it's so transparent there may as well not be. His minraise felt like a monster and yet when CO-2 started to put pressure on him he suddenly turned tail and genuinely had a decision to make. I guess I put him on a very narrow range... JJ, QQ being the most likely candidates but we're talking gut feel here so you can't rule out TT+, AJ+ completely.

I've no problem with taking a coin-flip so long as I'm the one doing the pushing. My big concern was (as Olly pointed out) where were my outs? I'd snap up an even money bet that the shorty has one and the only hands I could figure CO-2 for were another big ace... even AK or 99, TT maybe JJ.

Anyway, I pushed. UTG+3 agonised for the proverbial "ages" but called with QQ. UTG+2 had A7o. I didn't find out what CO-2 had.

No help for me.

Anyway, on the whole I think I should have folded... maybe...

Goodluck2me

i actually like a call and re-evaluate on the flop. you might even get to see a free turn (as theres a player all in you cant bet!) try check dark out of turn lol

brianmc

goodluck2me wrote:

i actually like a call and re-evaluate on the flop. you might even get to see a free turn (as theres a player all in you cant bet!) try check dark out of turn lol

I'm not fond of flat calling more than 1/4 of my stack preflop - especially with AK. AK is a coinflip against a lot of hands if you get to see five cards, it's nowhere near that if you only get to see three.

valor

i really dislike cold calling here, playing oop and putting 1/4 of our stack in, we miss most flops and we have reverse implied odds with our hand unless he has AQ or somesuch

ianmc38

I think cold calling is by far the worst option. Come to think of it, there's no hand i'd be prepared to call 1/4 of my stack preflop with (maybe KK/AA)

valor

brianmc wrote:

UTG+2 has had his rebuy. My gut feel is that I crush his range.

UTG+3 is an open book. There's no strong is weak nonsense going on here... well... there is... but it's so transparent there may as well not be. His minraise felt like a monster and yet when CO-2 started to put pressure on him he suddenly turned tail and genuinely had a decision to make. I guess I put him on a very narrow range... JJ, QQ being the most likely candidates but we're talking gut feel here so you can't rule out TT+, AJ+ completely.

I've no problem with taking a coin-flip so long as I'm the one doing the pushing. My big concern was (as Olly pointed out) where were my outs? I'd snap up an even money bet that the shorty has one and the only hands I could figure CO-2 for were another big ace... even AK or 99, TT maybe JJ.

Anyway, I pushed. UTG+3 agonised for the proverbial "ages" but called with QQ. UTG+2 had A7o. I didn't find out what CO-2 had.

No help for me.

Anyway, on the whole I think I should have folded... maybe...

no, you should have pushed, dont be results orientated

Captain Tom

i dont see why this hand merits such discussion tbh.

isnt pushing here 100% standard?

RoundTower

brianmc wrote:

UTG+3 is again a relative unknown but is pretty much an open book.

brianmc wrote:

UTG+3 is an open book.

So you're asking us what we think he has?

Culchie

Captain Tom wrote:

i dont see why this hand merits such discussion tbh.

isnt pushing here 100% standard?

Nope, not in Satelitte play.


Nice little article here http://www3.betfairpoker.com/newsandviews/article/itemId/i65768244/index.html


followed by

http://www3.betfairpoker.com/newsandviews/article/itemId/i65768359/index.html

RoundTower

I didn't read the articles but early on I would treat this spot like a normal tournament, not like a satellite.

Hitman Actual

I just skim-read it, and I'm not convinced tbh. At one point he talks about it being ok to fold 70% favourites (the JJ v one over-card example) as a medium stack. Seems ultra-cautious to me.

Hectorjelly

lenny_leonard wrote:

I agree on that, but it is the SE. I should re-phrase to "looks like a bad isolation play".

whats wrong with the minreraise? i think its the perfect play actually with almost any holding that you figure is far enough ahead of the pushers range. If you just call you are creating a situtaion where people will call behind you for value which you dont want, and there is no need to raise anymore than the minimum because the guy pushing is already all in, so you dont need to worry about pricing him in.


I would definitely push

brianmc

Thanks for the feedback all.

The reason I thought the hand deserved discussion was because I was still undecided in my own head and I wanted to hear a discussion on it.

My problem with it is that I guess I knew I was very likely to end up all in preflop. There was folding equity there but I'm not sure how much. Also, I was expecting UTG+3 to turn over something similar to what he did.

My biggest issue with pushing was that it was pretty likely that some of my outs were dead. Against a different shortstack with a different (estimated) pushing range and without CO-2's moody decision about pushing himself, I would push here every time.

Nobody else seems to concerned about my the possibility that my outs are slimmer than normal. Perhaps I'm just putting too much weight on this myself but it's the only reason I'd think it may have been a spot for a fold.