Squating Technique

Leon11

Long day today, was in the gym earlier and doing some squats, I've only ever done half squats because my heels come up off the floor when I try to go deeper. I've been told about putting small plates under my heels to allow me to keep my balance if I want to go deeper, I tried it and it worked but I really don't think it's good for the knees to be honest. Also it feels as if my ass just won't go down any lower without my thighs getting extremely tense n tight along with the muscle along the hips?? (not too sure of name)

I've been working on improving flexibility last 4 months or so and my squat has improved but think I've reached a plateau so to say as to how low i can get.

Any of you experienced guys got any recommendations/opinions/views as to what to do regarding the plates or improving flexibility.

I've been rollling a ball on the balls of my feet, calf stretches, hip flexing etc.

Cheers

Hanley

How high are your heels? is that in flat soled shoes or ones with heals already?

If you look at olympic weightlifters and the majority of IPF powerlifters, you'll see they were a shoe with a wooden heel to help them get deeper easier. I have a pair and they make an unbelievable differece when compared to flat soles.

Leon11

i just use asics in the gym, heel is about 3/4 inch in total. Do they put more tension on the front of your knees? I was looking at some of the weightlifting videos on the video thread and a fair whack of those guys had knee braces on. Ideally I'd like to be able to squat at 90 degrees, at the moment though the best i can manage is 45-50 then I become just too tight and my heels have to raise if I want to go any further.

Hanley

I squat in these.... http://www.sensfitness.be/adidas/AD001.gif

I jsut measured them and they've just over an inch of heel. It's the shoe that was designed for and is now worn by the worlds elite weightlifters. I think it's safe to say that a 1inch heel isn't gonna do too much damage.

I would imagine what you see the guy wearing in videos are in fact knee sleeves. These offer vary little support and do basically notthing to increase your power. They just keep the joint warm. I wear a pair and love the,.

I'm actually on the way to training now so I'm a bit pushed for time, check back about 4pm and hopefully I'll have outlined some points to consider while squatting.

Thorbar

Don't want to get too far off topic here but what's your opinion on squating in a smith machine?

g'em

Thorbar wrote:

Don't want to get too far off topic here but what's your opinion on squating in a smith machine?

I think Hanley will say the same as me on this - don't use the smith for squats, ever. Using the smith forces a completely un-natural range of motion. The smith does have its uses, mostly as a glorified towel rack (*) but squats and the smith just don't mix.



* decline benching, lunges and calf raises are among the exercises you can actually use a smith for.

yomchi

and rack chins, if your gym will allow it

hunnymonster

Jon wrote:

and rack chins, if your gym will allow it

could someone translate that for me please?

MMM

how does one do a squat session safely without the smith machine or a spotter?

justsomebloke

actually honeymonster these may be of interest to you as you don't have the assisted pull-up stations.

basically you are trying to recreate a pull up movement using a smith machine.

Basically lower the bar to around 2/3 body height and place a bench/seat in front of you. Then place your hands in the same postions as you would for a pull up and then put your legs on the bench/chair and start doing pull ups.

The legs being elevated mean that you aren't lifting your full weight so it makes them easier. to make them harder you can then add plates DB when needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeUnme7_mlg

Thorbar

Well I'm in the situation where my gym only has a smith machine, no bench press or squat boxes. Moving gyms isn't an option as I literally live next door to it and I've already paid my years membership. Am I better off continuing with lower weights or should I try to avoid it alogether?

hunnymonster

Thanks JSB, I think I could probably manage that or at least give it a shot. I'll leave the crotch crushing bar out though

justsomebloke

Thorbar wrote:

Well I'm in the situation where my gym only has a smith machine, no bench press or squat boxes. Moving gyms isn't an option as I literally live next door to it and I've already paid my years membership. Am I better off continuing with lower weights or should I try to avoid it alogether?

well what kind of free weights do you have access to, i.e. do you have any bars at all and what sort of DB's do you have

JayRoc

Thorbar wrote:

Well I'm in the situation where my gym only has a smith machine, no bench press or squat boxes. Moving gyms isn't an option as I literally live next door to it and I've already paid my years membership. Am I better off continuing with lower weights or should I try to avoid it alogether?

Can your smith machine also double as a power rack?
ie, does it have adjustable upright bars that can catch the weight if you fail and hooks to rack and unrack the bar from?
(This might sound obvious, but I ask as the majority of models of smith I've come across can also be used as rack in a pinch).

If this is the case, you can still do free squats, back and front, safely.
Just set the uprights so that you can dump the weight on them if you fail- that simple.

Hanley

Absolutely stay away from the smith machine for squats, I really cannot over state that.

As for your heels lifting, how wide is your stance? This is very important so try and give me a good idea. Is it inside shoulder width, outside or where? I'm looking for the distance between your heels.

This is something I wrote a few weeks ago on anotther board and I tihnk it applies here too;

With your stance close you HAVE to squat down or you'll go on your ass, as a result your knees end up forwards, which will prevent you getting any depth. The forward knees will lead to the heels off the floor and you'll need to round your back to keep the bar from pulling you on your ass cos it's out of your centre of gravity.

I'd say jsut geting their stance out will solve most evreything.

Btw.. as for squatting "down". It's gotten a very bad rap off the westside guys which is something that pisses me off immensly. Look at Oly lifters, they squat straight down between the legs. They dont sit back at all, they try and keep their hips under the bar at all times. This is achievable because of the heeled shoes and their outstanding flxibility, and look at their knees... they're forward of their toes.

Now I don't know if this is true or not, but in my opinion, it doesn't matter how far the knees drift forward of the toes once the hips are below knee level and the heels maintain contact with the ground. I think this because once you're in this position there'll be a big stretch on your hammies and glutes and it'll keep the entire knee joint stable.

It's when the knees drift forward and the hips stay high that the joint starts to get "grinded" on.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Leon11

Dave, when I do body weight squats the exact same thing happens, only end up being able to do 1/4 1/2 squats. I have naturally big calfs and I think that it may be a problem?? just a guess.

Hanley,

When I squat I've tried using a variety of postions. My best ROM is when I have my feet outside my shoulders, with my toes pointed out about 30-40 degrees. I've actually just looked at myself doing them in my rents room, sliding wardrobes with mirrors:D my back remains straight but not in the upright position.

back to the point above i can go down doing a bodyweight squat but there is a lot of strain on my groin and the muscle on the hips.

edit: I'm 6'4 also and the width between my heels is about 26" so i'm guessing thats a really wide stance

Went to the club physio and talked to him about this regarding my flexibility but what he got me to do has only done so much for me.

g'em

Leon I've had issues with tight calves and getting depth too. Have a watch of this video, it might help. I do some of the stretches it uses between sets and randomly outside the gym - in front of the mirror and such Gotta love Dan John too!!

drag0n79

g'em wrote:

Leon I've had issues with tight calves and getting depth too. Have a watch of this video, it might help. I do some of the stretches it uses between sets and randomly outside the gym - in front of the mirror and such Gotta love Dan John too!!

That's the exact link I was going to post - it's fantastic. Would recommend watching it to anyone.

g'em

drag0n79 wrote:

That's the exact link I was going to post - it's fantastic. Would recommend watching it to anyone.

It's a great little find isn't it? Actually I think it's something that everyone who squats should watch, the principles of it are so sound and my squats have definitely come on in leaps and bounds after using some of the techniques in it.

BrianD3

If you have problems with balance and flexibility while squatting perhaps the following exercise might help
http://www.beastskills.com/Pistol.htm

Now you mightn't be able to do one of these (at first). Even if you can't, if you work on the progressions shown in the above page it could well have a knock on effect on your back squat. All of this while doing an exercise that is tough but unlikely to cause you injury and only requires your bodyweight.

Leon11

this guy is going through all my problems at the mo, great find g'em

drag0n79

g'em wrote:

It's a great little find isn't it? Actually I think it's something that everyone who squats should watch, the principles of it are so sound and my squats have definitely come on in leaps and bounds after using some of the techniques in it.

Yep - same with me. Has certainly sorted out any of my depth problems. Can't recommend this one enough.

brianthebard

Was going to post a thread about squatting technique as well but may as well use this one-when I'm squatting I try to keep my head up, chest out, feet a little wider than shoulder width. As far as I can tell my technique is right, but when I try to get low my lower back starts to get quite tight. I think perhaps I'm arching my back too much or sticking my ass out too far but even when I try not to do those things its still sore. How low do I really need to get? My heels are firmly planted on the ground at all times btw.

rubadub

MMM wrote:

how does one do a squat session safely without the smith machine or a spotter?

Use low weights and go for high reps. I do them at home, I use a weight of 1RM standing military press or what I estimate it to be. I can do 12 reps of 40kg military presses so can get 50kg up onto my shoulders. Then I do 20 deep squats and sit back on a bed dumping the bar down.

Thorbar

JayRoc wrote:

Can your smith machine also double as a power rack?
ie, does it have adjustable upright bars that can catch the weight if you fail and hooks to rack and unrack the bar from?
(This might sound obvious, but I ask as the majority of models of smith I've come across can also be used as rack in a pinch).

If this is the case, you can still do free squats, back and front, safely.
Just set the uprights so that you can dump the weight on them if you fail- that simple.

They have a set of weights on bars that are around 2 1/2 feet long and I think they go up to around 45/50 kg. The dbs go up to around 60kg as well.

The smith machine has clips for stopping the weight from dropping but I think they're on the inside of the machine also they have no full length bar bell in the gym. Its pretty annoying because other than that the gyms perfect, well air condition, right beside my house and not busy at 7 am when I'm in there.

What's the technique for doing a squat with just a short bar and no rack to throw the weights onto?

justsomebloke

Thorbar wrote:

They have a set of weights on bars that are around 2 1/2 feet long and I think they go up to around 45/50 kg. The dbs go up to around 60kg as well.

DB Thrusters FTW.

I personally find that if you don't have access to a squat rack, dumbell thrusters are probably one of the best alternatives. However if you can clean, front squats are also an extremely good alternative and will probably let you go heavier then thrusters

wasabi

I have the same issue at the moment but I'm planning on breaking free from the evil Jackie Skelly soon and going somewhere with a squat rack, so it's not hugely bad for me.

Agree with what JSB said above there, thrusters are good and I do front squats too on occasion.

However, something else I came across recently was an allegation that sumo deadlifts are quite good for hitting the legs. I deadlift in the smith machine for the time being, and it works fairly OK, so it had occurred to me to try sumo deads in it. Someone more experienced than me may be able to say if that seems a good or a bad idea?

Then to hit some of the core muscles you'd get in a squat but might miss on a dead (to be fair, there's probably not many of those really) you could try some overhead squats, i.e clean and press the bar overhead and squat while stabilizing it there. OHS are one of the most ridiculously hard exercise I have ever done and the light bars in the gym will probably keep you going for a while.

If you are also in a Jackie Skelly gym expect funny looks doing the above