Alcatraz - haunted or not

ladybirdirl

Ok guys,

So recently in San Francisco I decided to do the Alcatraz tour.

TBH I was expecting nothing - so many people trudge through there and it's quite commercialised etc etc

Anyway, what can I say as soon as I stepped foot on the island the old spidey sense was tingling(what a geek I am!)

Actually tbh on the boat on the way over I kept getting what I can only describe as waves of fear. I'm not the mae west on boats so I put it down to that but this was a very big boat now, not a little currach jobby.

So onto the island and you have to walk for ages before you get to where the prisoners were housed.There used to be an area that the warden's families lived in and that was grand but as soon as I got up near the prison building I was almost sick. I couldn't get any particular voice - just lots of noises and pain and fear. I went into one of the cells and I'm sure something was trying to get through to me, the emotional pain was awful but I just couldnt' distinguish it. A group of Japanese tourists(how do they get everywhere) went in after me and had no such ill effects.

Bear in mind only 5 prisoners died on the island as a result of murder so as prisons go it wasn't awful

So my question is this - given that not many died there is it possible that the area feeds off the fear that was there and that this creates a paranormal experience? To extend that further does that mean that most of our paranormal experiences are borne out of fear rather than an actual experience?

My reasons for questioning this are that as I've stated here before I wouldn't consider myself to be the most 'spiritual' or 'paranormal' type person on the board yet this is the second really powerful experience I've recently had. This one was definetly paranormal, I could feel myslef being overwhelmed by this black fear.

So what do you think - does it in fact mean that our 'impression' of a place and the connotations attached to certain areas give us a ' false' sense that we will experience something?

I may have asked something like this before but it just struck me again about Alcatraz. Funny thing was, I wasn't actually that bothered about going but I kepy seeing the island in the distance and it sort of kepy calling me (sounds odd I know)

Ladybird

stevenmu

Well there's all kinds of things to talk about there. I think part of what you're asking is if certain places, possibly because of what we know of their history, can inspire a feeling of fear as if the place is haunted ? I think the answer to that is certainly yes. Alcatraz has a fearsome reputation (that is possibly worse than what the reality there was) and I'm sure that it evokes strong feelings in many people who visit it. Better examples of this may be places like Auschwitz or other concentration camp style places, almost everyone who visits them describe very strong feelings, and while it is possible that they are all paranormal, I'd bet that a very large percentage is psychological.

Also, I don't have any sources to hand for this, but I remember reading that the designs of building can have very strong emotional reactions on people visiting them, and I even think Alcatraz was used as an example.

Even with the two of these factors combined though, I don't think they would lead to the kind of overwhelming feelings you are describing, which leads to wondering if there was some paranormal element involved, and what that may have been. You do provide a very good description of what you were feeling. From what you describe, you don't seem to believe that there was any presence there, there was no intelligence at work, and no "ghosts" so to speak. This ties in with what you say about only 5 people having actually died there. It sounds like this isn't a "haunting" as such which would typically involve some form of ghost or spirit. (which isn't to say that Alcatraz is or isn't haunted, just what you experienced doesn't sound like a haunting). I also think it's very interesting how you described your first footstep on the island and how you seemed to feel a strong contrast between that and whatever nervousness tha boat made you feel.

What you describe sounds very much more like a "stone tape theory" type experience. There are various theories which all work on variations of the basic principle that strong emotions (or any and all emotions) in a particular location are "recorded" at that location, and can then be "replayed" or felt by someone visiting that location at a later point in time. A psuedo-scientific explanation of this is that tiny crystals which form within stone walls grow and align themselves based on emotions present at the time, which can then later be "read" by the electromagnetic field of a person. Other ideas speak more abstractly about the energie involved in emotions imprinting patterns on object which can later be read via psychometry.

Either way, somewhere like Alcatraz sounds like a perfect place for this kind of phenomonon to occur. There would have been large groups of people in a confined space over large periods of time, experiencing a range of similar very strong and traumatic emotions which I'd imagine would make for a very strong and clear "recording". Even if you only distantly picked up on a tiny fraction of the pain and anger and suffering there, it's easy to see how overpowering it could be.

How does that sound to you ? Ultimatly only you can really decide what if anything you experienced, but from how you described it, that's really what it sounds like.

ladybirdirl

Hmmm

I see what you're saying about the stone tape thing and I'd usually agree but the emotions were so strong that I thought it must be more.

It just seems at odds with the facts. If only 5 people died there, then you would perhaps assume that none of them necessarily felt the need to haunt the place which would lead to the stone tape theory. However, the intensity of emotion leads me to believe it's more than that

Interesting though that you bring up the stone tape theory, I had discounted that - perhaps unwisely

Wonder if anyone else has visited and what they felt?

Anyone

Ladybird:cool:

LostinBlanch

Nah,

sounds to me the classic symptoms of a guilty conscience. So do tell, exactly what were you up to on your hols to give you such a guilty conscience?

tj-music.com

Could it be a residue of negative energy that "haunts" the wall of alcatraz?
Although only 5 people ever died there - it wasn´t a great place to hang around, I suppose!

scorplett

I would be thinking that much of this seems to play more with the 'emotioinal garbage' left behind by the thousands maybe millions of visitors to the place since it ceased being a prison.

Say the word 'Alcatraz' to most people and it will evoke a feeling of dread etc. The amount of representations of the place in TV and film are overwhelming so much so that most will have brogut their own perceptions with them even before getting on the boat. When people take what they think they know and bring that with feeling, they can deposit an echo of sorts behind them. With the volumes of people that go through the 'famous' prisons, these feelings are dumped in the place they belong because one the person visits, they no longer have a perception of it but an actual experiance of it. The energy from this would build up over time.

Have you ever been to Kilmainham Gaol? I find energy to be very similar to what you describe in the yard of Kilmainham. Now to my sensability there is not so much the ghost of any of the rebels that were shot there but more the resonance of the horror modern visitors experiance when they stand below the bleak walls and are told the history of what happend on the very spot.
If you havent been there before maybe it would be good to see how similar or not your experiances there are?
Personally I have found 'famous' prisons to have a very similar feel to them rather than any other, or lesser known prison...
Just my thoughts on the matter, 'course it may just be me

Stoner

I was there Ladybird, and as per usual i picked up on nothing, not the worst jail I've visited BTW, I have some photos with orbes in them, but what's an orb.
Anyway it was nicer than my old school so I have no bad feeling memories of the place.

Mr. Presentable

Is Alcatraz haunted?

No.

What you experienced is down to anticipation.

ladybirdirl

Thanks for the replies

Stoner - I got one photo which you could say had an orb - then again it could be the sun

Scorplett- good idea on Kilmainham, haven't done it but will try. You're right about the emotional garbage but I'm surprised by the intensity if that's it(I'm usually totally thick to that stuff - even tho I'm a girlie)

LIB - wouldn't you like to know what I did on my hols -

Ladybird

ladybirdirl

nipplenuts wrote:

Is Alcatraz haunted?

No.

What you experienced is down to anticipation.

I can tell the difference between what I felt and anticipation thanks

Can you say why you're so sure it's not haunted?

Mr. Presentable

ladybirdirl wrote:

I can tell the difference between what I felt and anticipation thanks

No offence intended, but you were already getting vibes before you were near the island.

ladybirdirl wrote:

Can you say why you're so sure it's not haunted?

Because I don't believe it is I've been there, and it's a serene peaceful place.

6th

I have a friend that worked there as a guide for a while she had no problems with the place.