quick one to clarify something

ocallagh

Rebuy priod of Fitz IO last night
Relevant Stacks 2.5k
Blinds 50-100

2 limpers and I limp with Tc8c in c/o. Button limps and blinds complete.

Flop QcTd7c.

Checked to me. I bet 400. Button calls. Everyone else drops.

Turn 9h.

I push.

Is this a bluff or not?

ianmc38

It's a semi-bluff

brianmc

ocallagh wrote:

Is this a bluff or not?

I vote yes. But of the specific subgenus, semi-bluff.

phantom_lord

semi-bluff

califano

Live its a bluff
Online its a semi bluff
Online after 10pm on a weekend its a semi bluff but you want a caller

ianmc38

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+semi-bluff&meta=

shoutman

Semi bluff, although you have a mountain of outs you are still a dog to a set/ two pair/ top pair.

ocallagh

but what if I made a mistake by pushing and actually wanted a call. It was the rebuy period and I wanted a double up. I win the pot 46% of the time.

brianmc

ocallagh wrote:

but what if I made a mistake by pushing and actually wanted a call. It was the rebuy period and I wanted a double up. I win the pot 46% of the time.

Then I wouldn't call it a bluff.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

brianmc

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Logic dictates that a caller will either have you beat now - with your straight and flush outs being good, or will have a better flush draw.

It's a semi - bluff alright, but standard for rebuy period a I think.

Logic has nothing to do with it. Language does.

To bluff is to pretend. He's not pretending anything here. He's willing to put his chips in the middle with somebody elses and see what happens.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

ocallagh

brianmc wrote:

Logic has nothing to do with it. Language does.

To bluff is to pretend. He's not pretending anything here. He's willing to put his chips in the middle with somebody elses and see what happens.

exactly how I was thinking. I genuinely didn't care if I got called, in fact- my inner gambler wanted a call. If I lose it didn't bother me because I'd get 3500 for rebuying, but if I win the extra 2100 chips could have been put to some good use.

ianmc38

Semibluff: To make a bet in hopes that no one calls it. But, should other players call the hand, the hand can still improve to be the best hand at the table

Hitman Actual

ocallagh wrote:

I win the pot 46% of the time.

Depends what you're up against.

ocallagh

thanks for the replies, winner goes to brianmc for his 2nd reply as that is the only one I am happy with:) Dave Masters was the button (claims to have had AQ) and we've been arguing since on whether it was a bluff or not so thanks to brianmc I can safely say Masters you are wrong, it was a value push! ha

ollyk1

ocallagh wrote:

Dave Masters was the button (claims to have had AQ)

At least we can safely say that there was one bluff played in this hand!! No way he had AQ!!:p

Solksjaer

Last 3 hands of the Scalps in the Fitz there are plenty of value bluffs (lol) pushed into the pot. Pretty standard , I don't see why masters thinks it a bluff, it a straight forward 'let's boogie' bet. A semi bluff is where you want them to fold but you have outs in case they do...No bluff here.

Gholimoli

This is indeed a semi-bluff:
By definition a semi -bluff is a bet with a hand that IF called is not the best hand but has chances of improving to the best hand.

If you got called here at all chances are your hand would not be the best hand but you had outs to improve.
As such this is a semi bluff.
It has nothing to do with what you would like the opponent to do.
This is by definition a semi bluff.

brianmc

Gholimoli wrote:

This is indeed a semi-bluff:
By definition a semi -bluff is a bet with a hand that IF called is not the best hand but has chances of improving to the best hand.

If you got called here at all chances are your hand would not be the best hand but you had outs to improve.
As such this is a semi bluff.
It has nothing to do with what you would like the opponent to do.
This is by definition a semi bluff.

Get me a dictionary definition of "bluff".

Solksjaer

Well a bluff is where you want to take the pot down there and then. (Semi semi-demi or whatever). If you throw yer chips in and actually welcome a call how is it a bluff of any kind? It's called a gamble. This was a gamble. Although I don't know why Mr O'Call wants a call with just one card to come. If you don't agree with me, I'll be in a semi huff.

Gholimoli

brianmc wrote:

Get me a dictionary definition of "bluff".

I cant but I think Sklansky defines semi bluff like this in Theory of Poker.
I believe he defines a bluff as a bet that if called will have 0 chance of winning.

what im not sure is if he actually invented the term or just gave his definition on it.

ianmc38

ocallagh wrote:

Dave Masters was the button (claims to have had AQ)

Dave laydown TPTK? lol. I doubt it.

brianmc

Gholimoli wrote:

I cant but I think Sklansky defines semi bluff like this in Theory of Poker.
I believe he defines a bluff as a bet that if called will have 0 chance of winning.

what im not sure is if he actually invented the term or just gave his definition on it.

Oxford English Dictionary wrote:

bluff

• noun an attempt to deceive someone into believing that one can or will do something.

• verb try to deceive someone as to one’s abilities or intentions.

So basically a bluff is about deception...

So even a semi-bluff must have an element of deception about it...

And since nobody was trying to deceive anybody here...

sikes

not sure thats really the definition in the poker sense. In that case, isn't every bet and check a bluff?

MickL

i dealt this hand
and had to listen to the onsaluaght after it for the next hour!!!
1. Masters was a million/1 to have AQ der
2. My opinion on it was that it was a semi bluff!!!

your not exactly happy with a caller your only called with with a better hand but if you where called you have out's!!!

WP btw last night niall

BigDragon

ocallagh wrote:

..,... my inner gambler wanted a call. .......

Sweet Jesus :rolleyes: Hug a tree,

Flushdraw

Against Masters this is never a bluff because 2nd pair is good 9 times out of 10

bottom feeder

Nial i was on the left of the two of you's and there is no way on this earth he had AQ.....lol I was so so so glad when the table had to break as the pain of listening to Dave was unbearable....lol

fuzzbox

What difference does it make?

pppspecial

meh

ocallagh

pppspecial wrote:

meh

well Dave as always has clarified things here I think, onto the next one

a147pro

Have you not got 2 tickets for this already?

Are you thinking of sponsoring a table or something?