What to do with a weak flush on the river

Brayruit

Can't remember the details exactly, but this is essentially the scenario:

Online small stakes STT - $5 buy in.
10 seats

Early in first level, all 10 still remain
Everyone still has about 1000 and blinds are 10/20

I am dealt 3c3s in MP

No limpers to me - I raise to 80
Player immediately to my left calls... no other callers
Pot 190

Flop is 2c6c9c
I bet 100
Player calls
Pot 390

Turn Jc
I bet 250
Player calls
Pot 890

River 4s (edit)
I check
He pushes
????

Comments welcome on play throughout

Thx

sikes

why do you raise preflop?

I would fold this all day long in mp, at the start of a stt and 50BB deep. I might overlimp but never open limp

check turn, whats the river card? But should be a pretty easy fold, we have no info on villain.

Brayruit

sikes wrote:

why do you raise preflop?

I was in 8th pos out of 10... probably a bit loose on the loose side to play at all, but not wildly so?

Mr.Plough

check/fold flop

check/fold turn



low buy in stt's early on your only playing small pp's to hit your set.


be prepared to throw them away when you miss

Brayruit

Mr.Plough wrote:

check/fold flop
check/fold turn
low buy in stt's early on your only playing small pp's to hit your set.
be prepared to throw them away when you miss

I don't disagree, but...

My thinking on the flop was that there was a good chance that he had missed so try to take it down with a continuation bet.

My thinking on the turn was I hit my (low) flush so try to get paid off by 2 pair or a set.

Disaster?

phantom_lord

Brayruit wrote:

My thinking on the turn was I hit my (low) flush so try to push him off a flush draw.

Disaster?

Brayruit

phantom_lord wrote:

Yeah... sorry... see edit. It was earlier and I had forgotten the details.
Makes it look like more of a disaster admittedly

valor

preflop and flop are fine

c/f turn and fold river

RoundTower

I was going to say go all in without reading the thread, but this is really as weak a flush as you can get. Just give up on the turn, he probably hit a bigger flush. Definitely fold river. I think your preflop and flop play is fine.

Mr.Plough

Brayruit wrote:

My thinking on the flop was that there was a good chance that he had missed so try to take it down with a continuation bet.

i almost never raise early on in stts with low pp's, so on the flop im usually playing a small pot with little invested so not worth cbetting.

forgot that you built the pot up pf so firing on the flop isnt bad.


you know your beat when he calls on the flop so get ready to drop it to any bet

Brayruit

I called and he turned over 2 pair which he had hit on the flop.

So I doubled up early and went on to win.

I was bothered by my play though and was pretty sure I had played it badly... Did my opponent play it even worse?

Because I was befuddled about whether to call the river or not, I decided to stick the hand up and invite some comment. I suppose my reason for calling the river was actually as simple as: "Ah sure I couldn't be bothered playing on with a dent in my stack at this early stage, and it's only a fiver!". Maybe that's why I don't do well on line (I am in the black in live tournaments where I play very (too?) tight).

My conclusion now based on the commentary is that my raise preflop was a bit loose. I agree that limping and hoping for a set is better... but I think that this line is just about acceptable for the sake of variety.

My continuation bet I am still happy with.

My turn bet was awful.

The call on the river was poor, but if my reason for doing it was "ah feck it" then so be it... but I shouldn't expect to prosper in STTs with that attitude. ("prosper" is a relative term if I am playing one or two STTs a week for $5 a time).

padser

Pre - Flop - fold every time, in STT where you are not deepstacked at all u can really afford to make only 1 real 'play' before you are looking at a position where you have less then 20BB left. you dont use it at the 10-20 level and you def dont use it with 33 in MP.

Flop: Given the position you were in a continuation bet was I guess acceptablee. But it was 100 into a pot of 175 - reeks of weak continuation bet

Turn: You have absolutely nothing, [4th pair and a 3 high spade draw with 3 spades on the table]. FOLD

River: Unless your a real donkey - your going to get a much better opertunity to win chips in a $5 STT then with a 3 high flush. FOLD

dvdfan

I used to have a terrible time with pairs in stt's didnt know what to do with them. After reading on here and in books i think i understand them alot better and play them something like this. Im talking about 99-22 when i have a decent stack maybe 15-20+ Big Blinds.

i limp unless im in late position in an unopened pot and then if the blinds are tight ill raise. In early position i might fold lower Pocket Pairs if there are aggressive players to act after me or my stack is marginally making 15 blinds. I want to see a flop with my pocket pair for as cheap as possible.

I'll usually call a raise after i limp if its no bigger than 3x blinds because im more likely to get paid off on a raised pot if i hit a set and the raiser hits hes card.

Ideally though with a set you want to have 3-5 players in the pot. This increases the chance of someone hitting a good hand like 2 pair or TPTk that your going to get action on and your implied odds on a multiway pot should be alot better than a headsup raised pot.

Youll hit your set 1 in 7.5 times but well round it to 7 for easy maths, if you raise 4x blinds like you did and see 8 flops your going to have 7 times where youll lose the 4x blinds thats 28 blinds. Now on the 8th flop you hit your set and theres approx 10 bb in the pot preflop (your 4 the callers 4 and the blinds). Youve still to make 18 big blinds before you break even. For a 3x raise youll lose 21 bb for the 1st 7 missed flop and therell be approx 8 bb in the pot leaving you 13 bb needed to break even in that scenario.

In a limped pot say you have on average 4 limpers - thats 1x blinds for the first 7 flops you see that you miss on (remember youll only hit your set 1 in 8) so on the 8th flop you hit your set theres already 4x blinds in the pot from the 4 limpers and now you only need to win 4 big blinds to breakeven and also your chances of taking at least one full stack makes limping best here. So you dont need to raise with PP when your stack is average, because limping has a more profitable outcome. And as i said the only time i like calling raises or raising with Pocket Pairs is when your in late position because your advantage being in position should make up for the extra blinds you need to win.

There is other scenarios that i didnt include like that you might hit a 762 flop with 99 and still take down the pot or you might hit your set and not get any callers but you can still see from the examples why its far better to limp with pairs IMO.

On the hand

Pre-Flop limp
Flop check or continuation bet are fine
Turn - You have the lowest possible flush as 2c is on the board, nows the time to check/fold the hand. His push with 2 pair was terrible but the call wasnt much better. What hands would a good player push with here:

1 Pair - No Way
2 Pair - Nope
Set - No
Flush - Yes

So your only calling a player when your behind because you dont even beat the flush here. You got lucky against a bad player.:)