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The Wire

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    It wasn't an article but a post made by the show's creator and writer David Simon. HBO had him answer viewers questions on their online forum a while back.
    If you're interested here's the link, he makes references to Season 2's higher ratings and his opinions on why he thinks it such. As you will see the thread is quite large and the link above directs to one page containing one such comment by Mr. Simon. There are more but you will have to look through the thread, something I would highly recommend regardless as it makes for excellent reading.

    BE WARNED- The thread contains spoilers, many of them, up to the end of S3 so if you haven't watched that far I would advise against reading as it will no doubt have a detrimental effect on the rest of your viewing.

    So, here's one of the quotes-

    "I listed the reasons why the show struggles to grow its audience in an earlier post. But in response to one of your points, I agree that the racial composition of the cast is part of that struggle.

    Our numbers started low three years ago, and they were higher second season when the port story introduced more white characters. (We didn't do it to change the racial composition, we did it because the port story required a different composite.) Incredibly, there were many viewers and critics who suggested that the show was "easier" to follow in its second season than the first -- despite the fact that we were actually running two unrelated storylines (three if you consider that the Valchek-Sobotka fued and the establishment of the detail had almost nothing to do with Bunk's investigation of the dead women for at least four episodes.) What they were saying was, "When I saw white people being depicted, I figured it was worth paying attention."

    With the possible exception of Roots -- which was an enobling, mainstream story -- no drama with a majority black cast has ever succeeded in winning widespread popularity amount white viewers.

    We don't write this show for black viewers, or white. We write it because the story feels real and purposeful to us. It's a shame the rest of the country is so Balkanized when it comes to race."

    -David Simon, Dec 14, 2004 12:37 PM


  • Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The monthly how great the Wire is thread. I'll just repeat my previous thoughts on the subject. Greatest TV show in the history of the medium.

    Got into a big arguement concerning the Wire last week. Some guy was telling a friend about this crap new show from Ed Burn's the guy behind The Brothers McMullan. I walked in half way throught his conversation and tried to set they right. Turned into the funniest conversation I have ever had. Half an hour of this guy saying that there was only one writer called Ed Burns and that the Wire was his most ineptly written piece.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,052 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    That bit about the racial composition is quite interesting as it occurred to me yesterday, when watching "The Corner", about how "The Wire" has one of the highest percentage of black cast members of any show that I know.

    Unlike other shows though - a comedy like "Everybody Hates Chris" - the race element was only an element of a large tapestry and it never felt overtly political so it never felt forced, just another component of a larger tale.

    I also feel it's worth mentioning that this is one of the greatest shows ever made because I've not mentioned it in about 2 posts.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Season 4 starts tonight at 23:25.

    Have to program the dvd recorder.

    The race card only gets played in bits of the end of season 3. I wonder was that done on purpose i.e did they write that in when they compared the ratings of season 2 and season 3 and read the critics comments


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    The whole race thing is really a non-issue. The writers keep the demographics of the show in line with the demographics of Baltimore City. This way, it retains its realism and authenticity.
    David Simon isn't the type to react to audience criticism, just read his comments on focus groups! :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭the1andonly1


    David Simon recently gave a talk about what he meant the wire to be about (the death of industrial society, the end of the american empire), it was in a university in the states. Its really interesting and deserves a listen, though be warned he does spoil the end of season 3 in one of the videos.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJNkL12QD68
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhPZYjRgqTI
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z42m_J8t18


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,052 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Jason1984 wrote:
    David Simon isn't the type to react to audience criticism, just read his comments on focus groups! :)
    Where can I find these?

    The show is fanatical almost in its attention to authenticity and continuity and people have been trying to catch it out. At one point, in S4, a poster finally claimed to have spotted a mistake where a character was arrested over some particular clause in a law. The poster had some issue with how that was actually applicable and thought they had (unusually) screwed up. What was beautiful, was how the writer responded and said that the crime was applicable under Baltimore law because the actor whose character had been arrested for breaking it had himself been arrested for that crime. No wonder this show is the closest to being believable of any show I've seen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    ixoy wrote:
    Where can I find these?

    The show is fanatical almost in its attention to authenticity and continuity and people have been trying to catch it out. At one point, in S4, a poster finally claimed to have spotted a mistake where a character was arrested over some particular clause in a law. The poster had some issue with how that was actually applicable and thought they had (unusually) screwed up. What was beautiful, was how the writer responded and said that the crime was applicable under Baltimore law because the actor whose character had been arrested for breaking it had himself been arrested for that crime. No wonder this show is the closest to being believable of any show I've seen.


    In the link I posted above, if you have a read through at some point he makes some not so nice remarks about "test audiences".

    I never heard that before, excellent though. Where was it posted?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    I cant remember the last time i saw anything so real. Its a simple story that isnt out of this world.

    David Simon recently gave a talk about what he meant the wire to be about (the death of industrial society, the end of the american empire), it was in a university in the states. Its really interesting and deserves a listen, though be warned he does spoil the end of season 3 in one of the videos.

    I would have thought that would have applied to season 2 and not the others.

    I would have thought that the other series were more about how drugs can rule a city and the damage they cause.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭the1andonly1


    kearnsr wrote:
    I would have thought that would have applied to season 2 and not the others.

    I would have thought that the other series were more about how drugs can rule a city and the damage they cause.

    While I think that the drugs war is a major theme in all the seasons (a little less so in season 2, and more so in season 1) I think that the overriding theme present in all 4 series is the lack of individual worth. In all 4 seasons the individual characters are subserviant to the organisations they belong to, and when the individual and the organisation come into conflict, it's the organisation that wins out. Whether it be
    carcetti at the end of season 3 (advocates an increased war on drugs knowing it wont work because the alternative would lose him votes), wallace in season 1, or mcnulty in season 1.
    Of course there are other themes present in all 4 seasons, some of which run through the entire show and some of which are specific to that 1 season

    Sorry for going on for so long, the wire is one of the only tv shows where it's quite possible to write a dissertation on its subject matter and themes! :)


    EDIT: I've tagged the spoiler, I dont think it gives much away, but sorry anyway!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭tw0nk


    Hi all, ive been trying to find a good place to buy the wire, but ebay still fairly expensive, anyone know of any good offers atm? or failing that second hand websites? cheers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    S1 & S2 are £18stg each on amazon uk...and another 2-3 pounds for delivery
    For the calibre of the show I think that is a great price for 12 solid hours per season.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,692 ✭✭✭DeepBlue


    While I think that the drugs war is a major theme in all the seasons (a little less so in season 2, and more so in season 1) I think that the overriding theme present in all 4 series is the lack of individual worth. In all 4 seasons the individual characters are subserviant to the organisations they belong to, and when the individual and the organisation come into conflict, it's the organisation that wins out.
    Whether it be carcetti at the end of season 3 (advocates an increased war on drugs knowing it wont work because the alternative would lose him votes), wallace in season 1, or mcnulty in season 1.
    Of course there are other themes present in all 4 seasons, some of which run through the entire show and some of which are specific to that 1 season

    Sorry for going on for so long, the wire is one of the only tv shows where it's quite possible to write a dissertation on its subject matter and themes! :)

    Guys, Please use spoiler tags when discussing how seasons end etc.
    Thanks.

    Off topic - would it be best to leave watching season 4 until after season 3?
    I've seen the first couple of seasons and it seems that some storylines keep going from season to season so presumably watching S4 in advance of S3 would spoil S3 considerably?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    DeepBlue wrote:
    Guys, Please use spoiler tags when discussing how seasons end etc.
    Thanks.

    Off topic - would it be best to leave watching season 4 until after season 3?
    I've seen the first couple of seasons and it seems that some storylines keep going from season to season so presumably watching S4 in advance of S3 would spoil S3 considerably?


    Absolutely. If you watch S4 without watching S3 you will be completely lost. While S4 does introduce fresh story lines, there are still plenty that arise directly from the events of S3.

    As for where to buy, I'd suggest play.com. Free delivery and I think the prices are low too.
    HMV had the first three season going for €35 each recently. Fair price for such a show.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭tw0nk


    cool thanks, Wertz, i think il order those now, i love being able to watch the shows back to back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,417 ✭✭✭Miguel_Sanchez


    Skipping this thread because I don't want any spoilers what so ever.

    But a bunch of my friends have been raving about the Wire for the past few months. There's a TV arriving into the house tonight so I think I'll finally get to watch it from the start.

    Really looking forward to it.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh



    In all 4 seasons the individual characters are subserviant to the organisations they belong to, and when the individual and the organisation come into conflict, it's the organisation that wins out.


    McNulty I would've thoughtis anything but subserviant!

    Only the dealers are subserviant.

    In season 2 while the port workers are working for a the Greeks I dont think they are subserviant to them.

    The solider in season 3 breaks away.

    I dont think i've spoilt anything but if I have I'll edit it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭the1andonly1


    kearnsr wrote:
    McNulty I would've thoughtis anything but subserviant!

    Only the dealers are subserviant.

    In season 2 while the port workers are working for a the Greeks I dont think they are subserviant to them.

    The solider in season 3 breaks away.

    Subserviant was probably the wrong word, what I was aiming for was that those characters were ultimatly betrayed by whichever institution they served.
    For example
    McNulty at the start of season 2, when he ends up on the boat for betraying his masters.

    Wallace was betrayed by the institution he needed the most, the barksdales.

    The dockers were betrayed by not just the greeks, but by the political system which made their jobs worth less and less each day.

    I think cutty in season 3 is a great example, once he leaves the barksdale organisation he is able to get his life together in a way which is impossible from within that system.

    Colvin is betrayed by the police force for trying something new and different which challenged the status quo.

    Stringer Bell is himself betrayed by his own man for doing the exact same thing.

    So I think that while the drugs theme is the most obvious (especially season 1 and 3) its not just about the drugs story, I do really think that Simon is trying to portray more than just that in the show


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh



    For example
    McNulty at the start of season 2, when he ends up on the boat for betraying his masters.


    He just pissed his boss off to much and went behind their backs the whole time

    For example

    Wallace was betrayed by the institution he needed the most, the barksdales.

    Again he crossed his bosses

    The dockers were betrayed by not just the greeks, but by the political system which made their jobs worth less and less each day.

    Would agree with the greeks but the other point not so. Money passed hands here

    I think cutty in season 3 is a great example, once he leaves the barksdale organisation he is able to get his life together in a way which is impossible from within that system.

    He went against the norm. Great character

    Colvin is betrayed by the police force for trying something new and different which challenged the status quo.

    Again he wasnt betrayed. He went behind their backs doing something well dodgey
    Stringer Bell is himself betrayed by his own man for doing the exact same thing.

    He got done in a double cross. He was trying to be head of the pack.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭the1andonly1


    Not seeing a pattern?! :)

    As I see it, its that each organisation in the end betrays the people who serve it. In each of the instances above, the institution, be they the police force or the drug gangs are faced with a dilemma, which is whether to act in the best interests of the individual, or that of the organisation. And without fail, they all choose to protect the organisation itself at the expense of the individuals. You could argue that the individuals double crossed their superiors, or went behind their backs, but in each case it was the institution that had to be protected. Take colvin for example:
    He was booted out of the police force for actually trying to do something which would, and did, help the community. The people who are meant to help the community are the police in the 1st place. But to protect the institution from criticism colvin was kicked out.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Not seeing a pattern?! :)

    As I see it, its that each organisation in the end betrays the people who serve it.


    My point indviduals act on their own in each organisation then get screwed. If they were doing what each organisation wanted and then got screwed they the point you are making would be valid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 224 ✭✭the1andonly1


    kearnsr wrote:
    My point indviduals act on their own in each organisation then get screwed. If they were doing what each organisation wanted and then got screwed they the point you are making would be valid.

    True, but I think the show is extreemly real, in that it shows people who dont act just as their bosses would like, but instead as real people, put into difficult circumstances. Thats the great thing about the show, the characters seem real, and so do the situations they get themselves into. Overall, I think its the best show on TV by a mile


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    True, but I think the show is extreemly real, in that it shows people who dont act just as their bosses would like, but instead as real people, put into difficult circumstances. Thats the great thing about the show, the characters seem real, and so do the situations they get themselves into. Overall, I think its the best show on TV by a mile


    Wouldnt disagree with you about the show being extreemly real.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭sozbox


    I just read that S5 has been cut to 10 episodes. Link

    Filming began last week apparently, so hopefully we'll see it aired before Christmas.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Jason1984 wrote:
    I just read that S5 has been cut to 10 episodes. Link

    Filming began last week apparently, so hopefully we'll see it aired before Christmas.


    Only 10?

    Thats one thing I never got about the wire is why its so short? I suppopse if it was longer it would be harder to draw out


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭chalkitdown1


    kearnsr wrote:
    I never got about the wire is why its so short?

    I've never seen a HBO produced show lasting longer than 13 episodes per season. It's just the way they do things. I prefer it this way, to be honest. No padding out a series to 22 episodes with about 6 episodes being nonsense filler.

    Quality > Quantity.

    Also, don't forget that all one-hour long shows on HBO are actually one-hour long, as opposed to the 42 ad filled minutes you get with a show on a standard network like ABC, NBC, FOX, etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    Did anyone else not know
    that this person was a girl? Am I very stupid? No one I know has watched The Wire so I had no one to ask. I didn't know until well after the 4th series. It's not hidden throughout the show but I just never noticed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,909 ✭✭✭✭Wertz


    JPA wrote:
    Did anyone else not know
    that this person was a girl? Am I very stupid? No one I know has watched The Wire so I had no one to ask. I didn't know until well after the 4th series. It's not hidden throughout the show but I just never noticed.


    I knew but I often wondered did I pick that up wrong in one of the earlier episodes. One f*cked up little lady.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,255 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    JPA wrote:
    Did anyone else not know
    that this person was a girl? Am I very stupid? No one I know has watched The Wire so I had no one to ask. I didn't know until well after the 4th series. It's not hidden throughout the show but I just never noticed.


    Never new that. The voice is well strange



    I've never seen a HBO produced show lasting longer than 13 episodes per season. It's just the way they do things. I prefer it this way, to be honest. No padding out a series to 22 episodes with about 6 episodes being nonsense filler.

    Quality > Quantity.

    Also, don't forget that all one-hour long shows on HBO are actually one-hour long, as opposed to the 42 ad filled minutes you get with a show on a standard network like ABC, NBC, FOX, etc.

    I dont watch many HBO shows. This and thats about it so wasnt used short series. Only time I've ever seen it before was in Sleeper Cell but I dont think that was HBO


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭chalkitdown1


    kearnsr wrote:
    I dont watch many HBO shows. This and thats about it so wasnt used short series. Only time I've ever seen it before was in Sleeper Cell but I dont think that was HBO

    Nah, it wasn't HBO, Sleeper Cell is on 'Showtime'. Like HBO, it's another cable channel that uses short seasons. Dexter, being another example.


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