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AmarilloFats

Villain is reason I am at table. He is playing about 50% of hand raising about 20%. he has been caught bluffing with big over bets on turn a few times. He has also played sets passively until river then gone all in.....
I have made 4 calls thus far in this hand..
Hi preflop play means he has 2 cards. I have not seen him underbet a turn like this before.
I would have been much more comfortable calling an all in on turn.
He has only seen me play one hand prior to this, where I checked AA to a turn flush card and called a river, and lose to 2 pair.

Table Table 126366 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Seat 4: HERO ( $968.75)
Seat 5:Villain( $7161.49)

daveilly posts small blind (5)
Sir_Klonk
posts big blind (10)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 5h, 5s ]
SuedeHead99 folds.
lllFSlll folds.
elgamble753 raises (35) to 35
HERO calls (35)
daveilly raises (125) to 130
Sir_Klonk folds.
elgamble753 folds.
HERO calls (95)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 8s, 8c, 2h ]

daveilly bets (120)
HERO calls (120)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2d ]
daveilly bets (110)
HERO calls (110)
** Dealing River ** : [ 7s ]
daveilly bets (2680)
HERO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have about 600 behind

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Gholimoli

fold preflop to his raise.
55 is not a hand to get him with when the pot has been raised and reraised pre.

AmarilloFats

Gholimoli wrote:

fold preflop to his raise.
55 is not a hand to get him with when the pot has been raised and reraised pre.

Would it matter if I had 99 here!!?? I was not playing for set value only.

Gholimoli

The way you have played the hand no it wouldn’t matter if you had 99.
You say you are not only playing for set value and that is your mistake.
I think you should only be playing for set value with 55 against him and not to raise and reraise by him.
You will be facing very difficult decisions on each street (unless you hit your set) and its very easy for you to make mistakes.
You can get involved with him in a lot better spots.
These types of players are very easily to get money out of and you have chosen the hardest way, which often leads to you paying him off.

AmarilloFats

I agree in so much as I did I leave myself in awkward spots once I called preflop, I let him dictate the pace of the hand..It's easy to get outplayed/make big mistakes in these spots.

Preflop - He liked to squeeze once there was money in pot.
He viewed me as passive and original bet from cutoff looks like steal.
I have 55, and whilst difficult to play Its ahead of his range.


Once the flop comes I'm happy to call his less than 1/2 pot bet, I think I am ahead. The turn card is fine and I am happy to call his under bet.

Sure I do only beat "ace high" ( a bluff) but I think that's what he has the majority of the time.



Once I get to river bluffs, AA KK QQ (maybe JJ) 8's and 2's are his range. Bluffs being the vaste majority.
AM I being wise after the hand!??
Should I avoid difficult decisions?? Is that not often where the money is.
I don't think I should fold to his flop or turn bets, should I?
I shouldn't be makin a habit of getting ~13% of my stack in pre w/ 55...!!!

Thansk?

bops

i have put myself in this situation too many times in the past with agg big stacks:

if u fold - he shows the bluff,
if you call - you are beat

...just fold preflop

Gholimoli

AmarilloFats wrote:

I agree in so much as I did I leave myself in awkward spots once I called preflop, I let him dictate the pace of the hand..It's easy to get outplayed/make big mistakes in these spots.

Preflop - He liked to squeeze once there was money in pot.
He viewed me as passive and original bet from cutoff looks like steal.
I have 55, and whilst difficult to play Its ahead of his range.


Once the flop comes I'm happy to call his less than 1/2 pot bet, I think I am ahead. The turn card is fine and I am happy to call his under bet.

Sure I do only beat "ace high" ( a bluff) but I think that's what he has the majority of the time.



Once I get to river bluffs, AA KK QQ (maybe JJ) 8's and 2's are his range. Bluffs being the vaste majority.
AM I being wise after the hand!??
Should I avoid difficult decisions?? Is that not often where the money is.
I don't think I should fold to his flop or turn bets, should I?
I shouldn't be makin a habit of getting ~13% of my stack in pre w/ 55...!!!

Thansk?

You are wrong in your assumptions here .
First off the fact that 55 is ahead of his range is not a factor at all.
It would be if there was no more betting and you were deciding to call an all in from him but the fact that there is more betting and your out of position makes things a lot different.

You have to consider not if 55 is ahead of his range but how 55 plays against his range.
Remember there is 3 more street to be played and that is the real concern.

If you know he likes to squeeze pre-flop as you say then that makes the call with 55 all the worse unless you intend to make a move pre-flop.

I would actually like a 3bet here by you preflop rather than flat calling.
You could also raise the initial raiser here so that he will not think of squeezing but knowing that he is cabapable of the squeeze, you chose the worse option possible IMO which gives him all the advantage in the world.

You say once the flop comes you are happy to call his 1/2pot bet ,but again the hand does not end there. You have to have a plan how you are going to play the rest of the hand ,you need to have an idea what you are going to do on the turn if you don’t improve/you do improve/if he bets/doesn’t bet/ etc.
You are just hoping that you are right and that he will check behind on the turn and make things easy for you but that is often not the case specially against an aggressive villain.

And no I don’t agree that money is often in making difficult decisions at all.
Difficult decision are often called difficult because its very easy to make the wrong decision thus making a mistake and the more mistakes you make the more you are loosing.
Whilst you may win a big pot by making the correct difficult decision every now and then ,I believe the profit in poker comes from making the correct right decision in situations that come up time after time after time .
If you repeatedly find your self in difficult circumstances then its safe to say you are doing something wrong.
Its good to be able to deal with a difficult decision but not good to have to repeatedly find your self there.
In this case I think villain’s money can be extracted from him in ways that contain a lot less rist for you.

AmarilloFats

Hey Gholi,
I'm in position , on the button.
You say you'd prefer a 3bet pre. I would not 3bet TT here never mind 55. Cutoff was tight and villain mite push with AQ!

I think a call of 35 then push all in if cutoff folds to villains 3bet might have some merit. But a 3 bet by me on button is bad, cutoff is tight.

the first call for 3.5 bb is fine and standard!? How bad is calling the additional 9.5bb?

BTW I think calling only for set value against loose players with 100% continuation betting stats is a big leak.

Once I call the flop I know there's a good chance i'll be playing for my stack
Difficult decision YES
profitable YES,I think so.
Prone to Variance Yes
Are there "better spots" sure of course...You should never wait for better sppots. If's its the right decision its right.

Take a guy that will shut down with AK on the turn. Would you be more inclined to call his flop bet? you wont have any more difficult decisions to make , you can just check it down.....

55 is playable against him. I would have thought A2o was ahead of his range also, but not playable.

AmarilloFats

BTW - if you think Im defending the indefensible lettuce know.
Never played a hand like this before.
Thanks

cardshark202

Preflop is fine. Given your read this is a toughish spot but a river fold nonetheless. Your thought process is pretty good though.

AmarilloFats

cardshark202 wrote:

Preflop is fine. Given your read this is a toughish spot but a fold nonetheless..

So which is it??The call was fine?? Or I should fold??

Gholimoli

sorry i just read the OP again and Noticed that you have position on villain.
However in terms of what I was saying it does not change things all that much.

When I said 3bet pre-flop I mean a raise after CO folded to villains raiser of 135.
So once he is out of the picture then you don’t have him to worry about and seen as you said villain likes to squeeze then it would be ok to do this and I suppose if you are raising its better to shove as a raise would commit half your stack here anyway.


I would also raise CO here and the tighter he is the more I would be inclined to do so.
When you do this ,villain behind you will not think of calling/raising lite here as you have shown a lot of strength.

Also the CO being a tight player will often fold which would give you the pot there and then.
If CO flat calls, he will often check/fold the flop given you the pot there.
If you hit your set on the flop and CO actually has a hand it will give you a chance to win even a very big pot.
Basically your risks are very limited but your rewards are great with this.

You say you would not even think of raising here with TT but TT makes things different.
Basically the bigger your PP gets the more value it holds playing it on its own value that’s why creating a big pot with it pre-flop would not be a good idea. Another reason for not raising with them is that these PPs(TT,JJ,QQ ) would very much mind to be 3 betted.
Once you get to KK,AA then you can reraise as your hand doesn’t mind the reraise.
Also 55,66 etc don’t mind the reraise either (you can easily drop them).

As for flat calling, again based on what you know from villain this is not a good option with 55.
Your hand is simply two weak.
You are hoping to pick off bluffs from him but you can’t be certain at all.
Any card is likely to hit him (if he doesn’t already have you beat) .

How would you play the hand if the flop was AKQ ?
How about AQQ ?

Are you happier now that the flop is low than if it was high?
If that’s the case them I would have to ask why as per your comments villain is very loose and likes to squeeze once there is money in the pot which makes his range huge.

cardshark202

Sorry edited post just to be clear.

AmarilloFats

yeah I think an all in has some value after CO has folded to his squeeze.
but he'll only call with AQ+ and TT+
So a slightly ahead way behind...

But I will pick up the pot the majority of the time when he folds his A6, QJ,9T sort of hands...
Remember he only bet 120(half pot) on flop....I think this makes it difficult to go all in...Same on turn He bet 1/4 pot.

But if I call and play postflop I get him to bluff off his stack
On the turn the board reads 8822 , pretty good board for 55.
Or should I say not a good board for what I believe his range is.

The same arguments u gave for pushing preflop can be used for advocating a push here, on flop. But again what does he call with!?

Not sure on what level he was thinking but there were no draws out there so my hand looks like what it is a scared PP.

Sure I could call off my stack to a better hand( or allow him to catch a card on turn or river) but I think I get more value in playing it this way than pushing pre or flop.

On river the board is 88227.. If he had an unpaired hand it would be unlikely he has hit this flop.

Yes I much prefer a 882 flop to a AQQ flop.
For one my hand can get counterfeited on the AQQ flop.
He is more likely to have raised with an Ace or Q in his hand than an 8 or 2.




I think the best argument for folding preflop is so u don't spend your time in work writing long responses to a crappy hand that nobody reads..
Cheers for responsesz

Gholimoli

AmarilloFats wrote:

I think the best argument for folding preflop is so u don't spend your time in work writing long responses to a crappy hand that nobody reads..
Cheers for responsesz

LMAO.