Restoring the Latin Mass

Michael G

Report in the Sunday Times today has no new information apart from the suggestion that Latin Missals are being reprinted. However that in itself suggests that something may be happening, which is encouraging.

Cantab.

Michael G wrote:

Report in the Sunday Times today has no new information apart from the suggestion that Latin Missals are being reprinted. However that in itself suggests that something may be happening, which is encouraging.

Tis indeed. Anyone at High Mass at St. Audeon's last Sunday?

Check out this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1872714663680800365&q=missa+cantata

How all Masses should be! Such God-focused enthusiasm and piety!

JimiTime

Would I be right in saying that you are happy that mass will be in Latin?

Cantab.

JimiTime wrote:

Would I be right in saying that you are happy that mass will be in Latin?

Yes. In fact in the modern world, with all the immigratation and ease of travel, Latin Mass is great because you know what's happening no matter what country you're in.

Ciaran500

Or maybe people that don't know latin won't know whats happing in mass no matter what country they are in.

philologos

I don't see the point in doing services in Latin, at all at all. Can I ask how does it enhance ones religious experience at all? It is only in a different language to your own.God's word is one that should be easily interpreted by everyone, and a Latin mass in this day and age isn't easily interpreted.

JimiTime

Cantab. wrote:

Yes. In fact in the modern world, with all the immigratation and ease of travel, Latin Mass is great because you know what's happening no matter what country you're in.

are you sure you've thought this through

spatchco

cantaba,can i ask you is the latin mass held every sunday in saint audeons,and what are the times,,

Crucifix

Would all priests know latin?

Michael G

spatchco wrote:

cantaba,can i ask you is the latin mass held every sunday in saint audeons,and what are the times,,

Yes it is. Details of all Latin Masses in Ireland are on the website of the Latin Mass Society of Ireland.

Michael G

Jakkass wrote:

I don't see the point in doing services in Latin, at all at all. Can I ask how does it enhance ones religious experience at all? It is only in a different language to your own.God's word is one that should be easily interpreted by everyone, and a Latin mass in this day and age isn't easily interpreted.

It has to do with much more than the language. Does it enhance one's religious experience at all? Yes, infinitely. The focus is different. Whereas the Novus Ordo Mass (as generally celebrated) is inward-looking, centred on the congregation and inevitably highlighting the personality of the celebrant, the Traditional Mass is focused on God and on the Sacrifice of Calvary; the personality of the priest is neutralised; the emphasis is on reverence and solemnity. In theory, a Mass in English could achieve exactly the same result. The Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England has a service which illustrates this very clearly — it is essentially the Tridentine Rite of the Mass translated into English, admittedly into language that is a great deal less uncouth than the present Roman Catholic rite.

Cantab.

Michael G wrote:

It has to do with much more than the language. Does it enhance one's religious experience at all? Yes, infinitely. The focus is different. Whereas the Novus Ordo Mass (as generally celebrated) is inward-looking, centred on the congregation and inevitably highlighting the personality of the celebrant, the Traditional Mass is focused on God and on the Sacrifice of Calvary; the personality of the priest is neutralised; the emphasis is on reverence and solemnity. In theory, a Mass in English could achieve exactly the same result. The Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England has a service which illustrates this very clearly — it is essentially the Tridentine Rite of the Mass translated into English, admittedly into language that is a great deal less uncouth than the present Roman Catholic rite.

I would agree. I feel God is central at St Audeon's. When I go to my local parish now, I cringe when I see the cantor singing from the altar or the folk group getting a happy-clappy round of applause at the end. I think I'm very fortunate to have great priests at my local parish - they have such a big job on their hands and are trying to innovate in order to keep the parish alive and attract young people. Perhaps if they kept the focus on God, they might inspire others to follow. Of course I am only a lay person, this is an observation of mine (perhaps misguided), and I don't like criticising any priests - I still support my local parish, but I prefer St. Aud's from a personal spiritual point of view. I pray that all parishes can take a leaf out of what tremendous work goes on at St. Aud's.

kmick

<sarcasm>Yes it will be great for the ever increasing popularity of mass as well - so many people know Latin these days you know.</sarcasm>

Cantab.

kmick wrote:

<sarcasm>Yes it will be great for the ever increasing popularity of mass as well - so many people know Latin these days you know.</sarcasm>

The sermon is in English (as are the readings). And if you don't understand what the priest is doing - it's all there in English for you on the other side of the missal. The most important part of the Mass is in latin.

Michael G

kmick wrote:

<sarcasm>Yes it will be great for the ever increasing popularity of mass as well - so many people know Latin these days you know.</sarcasm>

That's not the point. We're not saying you should have to go to it, though I think you might be just a little bit less sceptical if you went to St Audoen's on a Sunday morning.

Some people, like the Society of St Pius X (who celebrate Mass at St John's in Dun Laoghaire) and their followers, want to see the new Mass abandoned and replaced by the Tridentine Mass. Others, however, including myself and other posters here (or so I infer from their comments — apologies if I am wrong), accept that the new Mass is here to stay and that a large majority of Catholics would probably prefer it. What we are looking for is freedom for priests to say the Tridentine Mass. The present rule is that they have to get permission from bishops, and many bishops are grudging about giving it or refuse completely. For Greater Dublin, with a population of 1.7 million, there is only the one Mass in St Audoen's. Cork has just one Mass a month, and not on Sunday but on the First Saturday. Limerick has one a month; Galway and Waterford have none at all. Some of the smaller rural dioceses are more liberal (details for the whole country on this page). Others are totally hostile.

Incidentally I was eight years old when the Tridentine Mass was sidelined. I am in the older half of the congregation where I go to it now. It isn't just for the nostalgic holders of bus passes.

JimiTime

Why not just focus on God, but in english? It makes no sense that saying whatever, in Latin enhances anything. I fear this is just more tradition, and nothing to do with God. If you believe it focusses more on God, then you are saying that english masses don't. If thats the case, you ask why, not say mass in an extinct tongue. I'm baffled

Michael G

JimiTime wrote:

Why not just focus on God, but in english? It makes no sense that saying whatever, in Latin enhances anything. I fear this is just more tradition, and nothing to do with God. If you believe it focusses more on God, then you are saying that english masses don't. If thats the case, you ask why, not say mass in an extinct tongue. I'm baffled

May I point you back to one of my earlier posts (#11 in this thread)? It's not the language; it's the Liturgy.

JimiTime

Michael G wrote:

May I point you back to one of my earlier posts (#11 in this thread)? It's not the language; it's the Liturgy.

Ok, so why not say it in English?

philologos

If Mass was to be said in any language apart from English, I would choose either Hebrew or Greek, never in Latin. Hebrew and Greek were the languages of the Bible. But I still fail to see why you couldn't do the same liturgy in English.