Learning Irish

The Irish Independent Newspaper are giving away Learning Irish CD's.

Are you interested in learning/speaking Irish or do you think it is a waste of time?

I've posted here as it is a general question, rather than in the Gaeilge forum (preaching to the converted).

Feral Mutant

I don't care what everyone else does or is forced to do regarding irish but as for me, now that I've done my leaving, I never plan on using it again.

Alter-Ego

No interest in the language at all tbh. I'm also against being made do it in secondary school.

Ruu_Old

I don't mind it at all and enjoyed learning it in school, though my brain is mush now I can't remember a whole lot of it. Hardly get the opportunity to use it in America only to teach the wifeh a few words now and again. Use the CD as a coaster.

Zillah

Stupid useless language should die and let a new Ireland take over. Bloody waste of time.

ninebeanrows

Zillah wrote:

Stupid useless language should die and let a new Ireland take over. Bloody waste of time.

It's apart of our culture, have some respect..

I personally am terrible at Irish.

The way it's forced into us is perhaps why people don't enjoy it. i think it should be taught up until 3rd Year and then optional for the Leaving Cert..

I think every Irish person should have cupla focail of Irish...

DonJose

It's a dead language and should be not be a compulsory subject in school. Irish school children should be offered German/French/Spanish as a replacement for Irish. The money spent on teaching Irish is a waste.

DonJose

Weathercheck wrote:

I think every Irish person should have cupla focail of Irish...

I don't drink tea

coolcon

Why the hell should we replace it with a foreign language (french...) like someone suggested when we have it as a language of our own? Stop sucking up to europe and have some pride in your own heritage. I think it should stay as a school subject, perhaps thought in a different way - less based on written work and more on everyday, normal usage.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Zillah

Weathercheck wrote:

It's apart of our culture

No, it used to be a part of our culture, now its a stupid waste of time.

DonJose

coolcon wrote:

Why the hell should we replace it with a foreign language (french...)

I would rather have my children learn a 2nd/3rd language that they can actually use instead of a language that they will NEVER use. My children were born abroad and my wife is a foreign national. My daughter is trilingual and my son is bilingual. We just moved back to Ireland and my daughter will be starting secondary this year. If she is able to skip Irish as a subject I would be happy, that would leave her with the option on improving on her weakest language.

Rb

coolcon wrote:

Why the hell should we replace it with a foreign language (french...) like someone suggested when we have it as a language of our own? Stop sucking up to europe and have some pride in your own heritage. I think it should stay as a school subject, perhaps thought in a different way - less based on written work and more on everyday, normal usage.

I agree. I really don't like how its taught in schools and as a result I think a lot of people don't like the language, nor have they any interest in continuing their education in it, after they leave school.
My Irish is extremely poor at the moment, I detested it after the L.C and forgot most of what I had learned quick enough. Problem being that instead of teaching it as a language, we were just made learn things off in bulk sentences, to be pieced together as we wished when it came to writing essays/answering oral questions. There was little work on vocabulary, we were taught little verbs, enough to get by I suppose. Would like to see it taught like French/German, I came out of secondary with a solid understanding of the french language and was able to use it very well and I know that despite not having used it since, a quick recap in it and I'd be back to how I was in my L.C year. I can't say that about Irish, however, as I feel I'd actually have to sit down and learn the language from the start again.

I might try and pick it up again, have that CD now so might give that a listen in the near future but I wouldn't really like to see the language disappear.However, luckily enough it appears as though interest from schoolchildren in the language is rising, so it may not vanish just yet.

coolcon

DonJose wrote:

I wonder rather my children learn a 2nd/3rd language that they can actually use instead of a language that they will NEVER use.

They'll never use it with an attitude like yours. :rolleyes:

Rb

Zillah wrote:

No, it used to be a part of our culture, now its a stupid waste of time.

Yore a stupid waste of time tbh.

Faith

I hated learning it in school, but now I enjoy speaking it when I get the chance. My family has a holiday home in the Gaeltacht, and I enjoy giving it a bash when I'm down there (I'm shy about it though). It's also fantastic when you're in a foreign country. Everybody speaks English, nobody speaks Irish. You can say what you like about people without them knowing!

is_that_so

Well I can speak a 3nd/4th and 5th language - much of that down to being exposed to 2 languages at an early age.

TBH much of what is said about Irish is down to how it is taught - very badly for many people.

tinkerbell

Hated Irish in school although I found it fairly easy. Still don't like it and I do think it was a waste of time being taught it. I know it's part of our heritage and everything but it is no longer even used. Many people will never even speak it again after they begrudgingly do it for the Leaving Cert. For those reasons I believe that it should be optional. I also did French & German at secondary school and if given the choice between say Spanish and Irish, I would have picked Spanish. At least then I'd actually use what I learned!!!

Nightwish

I haven't spoken Irish since I left school 6 years ago. Even then I only used it in Irish class. I hated the subject, and devoted any language skills I had to learning Spanish.

DonJose

coolcon wrote:

They'll never use it with an attitude like yours. :rolleyes:

LOL they speak their mother language everyday, something they could never do everyday with Irish, even if they wanted to

csk

rb_ie wrote:

I agree. I really don't like how its taught in schools and as a result I think a lot of people don't like the language, nor have they any interest in continuing their education in it, after they leave school.
My Irish is extremely poor at the moment, I detested it after the L.C and forgot most of what I had learned quick enough. Problem being that instead of teaching it as a language, we were just made learn things off in bulk sentences, to be pieced together as we wished when it came to writing essays/answering oral questions. There was little work on vocabulary, we were taught little verbs, enough to get by I suppose. Would like to see it taught like French/German, I came out of secondary with a solid understanding of the french language and was able to use it very well and I know that despite not having used it since, a quick recap in it and I'd be back to how I was in my L.C year. I can't say that about Irish, however, as I feel I'd actually have to sit down and learn the language from the start again.

I actually had the complete opposite experience in that I had crap French Teachers but brilliant Irish teachers. Left school without a notion of French but with a good grasp of Irish.

The way it's taught has to be changed too much emphasis on writing as opposed to speaking.

I would hate to see it die out.

Gaillimhtaibhse

Part of our heritage and identity. Differentiates us from Brits.

humbert

We should have the option to learn it because it's part of our heritage and maybe it should be compulsory in primary school but in secondary school it should be optional.

I wasted a lot of time in a class I'd no interest in and have no use for.

Learn it if you want to embrace Irish heritage but it shouldn't be forced on anyone.

Nehpets

Gaillimhtaibhse wrote:

Part of our heritage and identity. Differentiates us from Brits.

:rolleyes:

Irish should be optional. From this thread alone it's obvious that some people want to learn it and some people don't.

Those who don't.. that's fine and it's their choice. They shouldn't be made.

Those that do.. shouldn't complain that they aren't being taught right. If they really wanted to speak it they would do so and learn it themselves obviously.

I haven't finished secondary school yet (less than 4 months!) but I can see no use of Irish in my foreseeable future. That's why I dropped to pass.

biko

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam
Is fearr Gaeilge briste na Bearla cliste
Although my Irish is limited I enjoy using what I have in day to day conversation. My written Irish is atrocious.

humbert

Nehpets wrote:

Those that do.. shouldn't complain that they aren't being taught right. If they really wanted to speak it they would do so and learn it themselves obviously.

I think if people are forced to take it and made to sit a test in it they have the right to demand that it be taught properly. I'd some piss poor irish teachers.

coolcon

I think many secondary students (i'm one) are too young to realise the importance of having the language (and yes, it is important), and so many would choose not to learn it. Unfortunatley the immature attitudes people have often continue after leaving school, and that leads to people thinking its 'stupid' or 'a waste of time'. Its neither. Stop complaining about the crappy teachers you had when you were younger and do something about it now. There are plenty of oppurtunities to learn the language now; try some adult night classes or even get the CD in the paper for the basics.

Killaqueen!!!

I think the average Irish man/woman has a disgraceful attitude to our culture and our history. I will be flamed for this but I don't care.

Yes, we all know that Iirish is not a spoken language but because you can't speak it abroad is not a valid excuse to banish the language forever - never to be learnt or spoken again.

I am terrible at Irish - everday I dread going to Irish class because I find it extremely boring and quite difficult. I scraped a pass in Higher Level for the Junior Cert and I'm not going to count it for points for the Leaving Cert when I take it in 2 years time.

The way it is taught in our schools just...isn't working. But that doesn't mean we should abolish the language. I think it should be compulsory in all primary schools and secondary schools - at LEAST up til Junior Cert, with the option of continuing for the Leaving Cert.

I would imagine that most people think Irish is a pointless subject, yet a lot of them take pride in being Irish when they can't even speak the language. It's the same with knowing your Irish history. A lot of people probably know nothing of the War for Independance, the Famine, the 1798 rebellion...yet would be one of those stereotypical drunks who go around being general hooligans for the sake of Irish pride.

I know that all of that is going into history but it's the same concept of what I call plastic paddys...

But back on topic - I am learning Irish at the moment. I love the language - hate the classes. It needs to be sorted out but it probably won't.

That's my view.

humbert

coolcon wrote:

I think many secondary students (i'm one) are too young to realise the importance of having the language (and yes, it is important), and so many would choose not to learn it. Unfortunately the immature attitudes people have often continue after leaving school, and that leads to people thinking its 'stupid' or 'a waste of time'. Its neither. Stop complaining about the crappy teachers you had when you were younger and do something about it now. There are plenty of opportunities to learn the language now; try some adult night classes or even get the CD in the paper for the basics.

It's not important to me. That's my choice and it's got nothing to do with maturity.

Wibbs

If you weren't born of Irish speaking parents and had the language from birth, no matter how long you tried to master the language, you may get to fluency but you would still sound "foreign" to a native speaker. Like if you lived in France, even after 20 years of speaking French, chances are very high a native speaker would spot you're not French.

Look at Basque and welsh and a fair few other languages that have thrived against bigger languages nearby. Look at some of the former Soviet satelite states where their native languages are booming, yet were held down by the official Russian.

We've been throwing money at this since the formation of the state and the fact is there are probably more Polish and Chinese speakers in this country than true Irish speaker. Certainly you hear them more Irish. Just having a "cupla focal", while showing an aspiration towards the language does not make you an Irish speaker. Not by a long shot.

If it's meant to thrive and grow. If not, then no amount of government money will prop it up.

timmywex

HATE IT!!

should be made optional fr the leaving cert and students will prefer it as they aren't being forced to do it

Zonko

Been casually learning it for a long time now... I'm getting there alright. Perhaps a bit too casual about it though.

csk

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I think the average Irish man/woman has a disgraceful attitude to our culture and our history. I will be flamed for this but I don't care.

There used to be a name for that kind of attitude once upon a time.
However, I would not go as far as to say it infects the average man/woman -maybe a good few - but the average man/woman, I don't think so.

There is a woeful ignorance though of our culture and our history, sometimes listening to some people talk about such things, you would get the impression they were ashamed to be Irish or something.

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote:

If it's meant to thrive and grow. If not, then no amount of government money will prop it up.

If the government banned it, loads of people would start to use it.

coolcon

csk wrote:

you would get the impression they were ashamed to be Irish or something.

I was thinking about this recentley and we definatley don't have as much national pride as other countries. Take the Americans (they're very proud ) - almost every family flies their flag outside their house. The only time I ever see an Irish flag anywhere near a house here is around St Patricks day. So maybe it comes down to a lack of pride in our heritage.

SuperSean11

Thats not it Why hang a flag of your own country if u live in the country?Wat the point Got nothin to do with pride

coolcon

SuperSean11 wrote:

Thats not it Why hang a flag of your own country if u live in the country?Wat the point Got nothin to do with pride

I dont know, the Americans do it, and they love themselves ! Just a thought. lol.

humbert

National pride on general principle doesn't make sense to me. There are some things about Ireland and the characteristic attributes of the Irish that I like and some that I don't. I think it's a good thing when a country has a rich culture and heritage, makes the world a more interesting place.

csk

Nehpets wrote:

:rolleyes:

Irish should be optional. From this thread alone it's obvious that some people want to learn it and some people don't.

Those who don't.. that's fine and it's their choice. They shouldn't be made.

Those that do.. shouldn't complain that they aren't being taught right. If they really wanted to speak it they would do so and learn it themselves obviously.

I haven't finished secondary school yet (less than 4 months!) but I can see no use of Irish in my foreseeable future. That's why I dropped to pass.

:rolleyes:

Substitute Irish with Maths in the above. Would the same hold true then ?

When I was in school I hated maths. Since leaving I have never used any maths apart from basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Even then its mostly on a calculator. I have forgotten most things Simpsons Rule, quadratic equations and differniation all gone and I suspect I'm not the only one. So should we make Maths optional ?

I mean I shouldn't have been made to learn maths. If I wanted to learn maths I would have learned it myself surely? Sure why do we bother to learn anything after primary school? :rolleyes:

csk

coolcon wrote:

I was thinking about this recentley and we definatley don't have as much national pride as other countries. Take the Americans (they're very proud ) - almost every family flies their flag outside their house. The only time I ever see an Irish flag anywhere near a house here is around St Patricks day. So maybe it comes down to a lack of pride in our heritage.

I get the point you're making but the garish pride of the Americans is not something I would like to see in Ireland myself.

However I think myself it goes deeper than a lack of pride, maye it is psychological. Whatever the reason, I find the hatred some people display for Irish culture and history to be completely unnatural.

Ridire_Dubh

rb_ie wrote:

I really don't like how its taught in schools and as a result I think a lot of people don't like the language

Right on! Too bad the teachers can't teach?

humbert

csk wrote:

:rolleyes:

Substitute Irish with Maths in the above. Would the same hold true then ?

When I was in school I hated maths. Since leaving I have never used any maths apart from basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Even then its mostly on a calculator. I have forgotten most things Simpsons Rule, quadratic equations and differniation all gone and I suspect I'm not the only one. So should we make Maths optional ?

I mean I shouldn't have been made to learn maths. If I wanted to learn maths I would have learned it myself surely? Sure why do we bother to learn anything after primary school? :rolleyes:

yes, as we can see from your definitive example a grounding in maths is no more useful and has no wider a range of practical applications than Irish.

Sierra Oscar

I really dont care what others do, but I will be tossing the CD's in the bin

Zillah

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Yes, we all know that Iirish is not a spoken language but because you can't speak it abroad is not a valid excuse to banish the language forever - never to be learnt or spoken again.

Yes it is, its a perfectly valid reason. Its why Italians aren't learning Latin.

I would imagine that most people think Irish is a pointless subject, yet a lot of them take pride in being Irish when they can't even speak the language. It's the same with knowing your Irish history. A lot of people probably know nothing of the War for Independance, the Famine, the 1798 rebellion...yet would be one of those stereotypical drunks who go around being general hooligans for the sake of Irish pride.

I'm very proud of being Irish, but its about modern Ireland, the culture I see around me. I don't give a toss about what Irish people used to do or speak. Sentimentality for a bygone era is all well and good until it means that young people are forced to spend thousands of hours of their lives learning a language that is completely useless. And they have to learn it under pain of ruining their future education prospects.

Bradidup

Deleted User wrote:

The Irish Independent Newspaper are giving away Learning Irish CD's.

Are you interested in learning/speaking Irish or do you think it is a waste of time?

I've posted here as it is a general question, rather than in the Gaeilge forum (preaching to the converted).

Unfortunitally I never got my Intermediate Certificate Exam because I failed Irish in the 70ies. No thanks, Irish in Ireland to day is like giving a fish a bicycle. We would be better off learning Polish!!!!

Zillah

Bradidup wrote:

We would be better off learning Polish!!!!

So true

That or Mandarin.

InFront

Didn't do Irish in school but I did some classes in it in college mainly to get my head out of my course for a while. I find that I can read (or recognize) Irish but would never be expect to speak or listen to it in real life.
In school I did classics instead of Irish and really Irish is largely the same thing: a mythological language whose value is probably not in a nationwide revival like Hebrew was, but as part of a much more specific cultural heritage, like Latin or Sanskrit. In that respect, it's wrong for someone to simply shrug off its importance or say it should be rubbished, but perhaps be realistic as to how revivable it is?

csk

humbert wrote:

yes, as we can see from your definitive example a grounding in maths is no more useful and has no wider a range of practical applications than Irish.

That wasn't my point really. I was merely highlighting the lack of logic in the post I quoted. Simply saying "I'm never going to use this after school so why bother" is not an excuse. I was genuine about the maths thing. I can name branches of maths such as alegbra, I was even "forced to spend thousands of hours of my life learning" it, yet I doubt if I would be able to do any alegbra if I tried now, less than three years after leaving school. So why should I have bothered?

What useful and wide range of practical applications would not having learned Irish given to me ?

csk

Zillah wrote:

Yes it is, its a perfectly valid reason. Its why Italians aren't learning Latin.

I presume Italians are still learning Italian though?

Wibbs

Zillah wrote:

I'm very proud of being Irish, but its about modern Ireland, the culture I see around me. I don't give a toss about what Irish people used to do or speak. Sentimentality for a bygone era is all well and good until it means that young people are forced to spend thousands of hours of their lives learning a language that is completely useless. And they have to learn it under pain of ruining their future education prospects.

Oh Yes! testify!:D Nail on head. I mean why are we not wasting huge amounts of cash that would be better served on useful things like health etc., getting government documents translated into Old Norse? Or Pict, or Latin, or French or any number of the languages that have been in use in this country?

For that matter what version of Irish should be using? Connought, Ulster, Munster? Give me a break, it's cut through with pidgin latin with a few unique words and liberally spattered with English words for the modern age. Just add an a and an o with a fada on top and you're laughing. Carr for car or Gluashtain(fast thing) I mean give it up. It all smacks way too much of bare breasted maidens standing at the crossroads, making throat clearing noises loosly translated as "oh woe is me". DeValera's dead. Let him and his Ireland spin. Do not get me started on O Cuiv. Words in any language cannot begin to describe the depths of his muppetry. An Daingain my ever lovin' arse.

In a few hundred years the way things are going, English, Chinese and Spanish will be the only mainstream languages, with the rest consigned to history, like so many before them. Do we mourn the their loss? A tiny bit, but if they live in academia then fine. If they can't survive on their own merits, practicality and popularity, then boohoo. It was meant to be.

In the end, language is all about the best way to communicate your ideas. Full stop. The best ones, that borrow from the best of the rest will survive.

Damn that felt cathartic.Too many years in school reading Peig and how she lost 12 poor childer in childbirth and the rest were taken by the dropsy.

Wibbs

csk wrote:

I presume Italians are still learning Italian though?

No they're living it. Slight diff there and they're not throwing silly campaigns and cash at their language. It's surviving and thriving quite well you know. All native born Italians speak Italian. Compare and contrast.