Comments on Routine Please

Sangre

Essentially I've decided to start lifting as my primary way of gaining lean mass and reducing my bf%. Because of serious exam time and travel over the last year or so I'm currently in the probably my worst shape in years. Its all going to change though!
Here is a preliminary routine. Obviously I want the big 3; bench, dead lifts and squats. From what I've read a strong, core program is one of the best ways to go and that is what I've decided, obviously not too bothered on targeting specific areas.
I've made up a 3 day split with probably day off between each. I think I'll be aiming for 3x8 sets.

• Chest & Back

Bench Press
Pullover
Incline bench press
Bent over row


• Legs

Full Squat
Good morning
Standing Calf Raise
Crunches
Deadlift

• Shoulders & Arms

Behind Neck Press
Upright Row
Barbell Rear delt row
Tricep Extension
Barbell curl

I've not decided the time table yet but I'll also normally play squash and 5 a side once a week and walk 35minutes uphill about 3/4 times a week (weather permitting).

I haven't thought about my diet yet but it is naturally quite good (or normally is). I don't have a sweet tooth or anything. The only thing I'd need to watch is my carbs which I've done before easy enough. Because of work/college etc., there is a problem with eating what I want sometimes so I've to still have a think about that.

All comments welcome. Any weights I should include/exclude? Are deadlifts and squats on the same day a bit much?

cheers.

Hanley

Deadlift after squats and good mornings is risky at best. Very high possibility of an injury.

If I was you I'd put Deadlifts in first on the chest and back day and scrap them from the leg day.

I would also run the leg and back days as far apart as possible.

So maybe;

Monday - Back and Chest

Wed - Shoulders and tris

Fri - Legs

I always try to squat 4 days after deadlifting. I pull on tuesday, squat on sunday.

I'd probably drop upright rows for shrugs too. I've found them somewhat irksome on my shoulders and since you can really load up the bar on shrugs, I stick to variations of those.

tribulus

If you're going with a 3 day split I'd be inclined to keep the big 3 on 3 separate days, or at least not squats and deads together.

Shoulders and arms is probably your least taxing and lowest volume day so deads here should work alright.

Generally I'd try and balance the amount of pressing and rowing you do.
So maybe replace the pullovers with face pulls or pull ups or something.

Legs looks okay, don't forget about the hamstrings so keep up the Good mornings and similiar stuff. Probably better ab exercises than crunches, I usually superset leg raises with planks (as an example) standing pull down abs are good too.

Personally I've never liked upright rows much but if you get use out of them then fair enough. Maybe something like a clean variation could be good here, develop explosiveness and build some nice traps in the process!

I think a whole body workout might be better as a means of getting back into it but if you've done ok with a split before then go for it.

Hanley

I would caution against clean variations for beginners... Most likely scenario is that it's turned into a bastardized upright row/reverse curl movement.

Problem is most people, beginners espscially, have way to much arm bend as they pull. It takes the explosive element of the lift away.

I WAS gonna suggest snatch grip high pulls in place of upright rows, but again i'd expect too much arm bend to get any upper back benefit from the exercise. So shrugs would be the way I'd go!

Sangre

Yeah was thinking squats and deads on same day was a bit much. Program I was working off didn't have deads so wasn't sure where to put it. Might put it in chest & back and move legs to last day. Might change that though depending on how I find this, what my time is like.

Never really had a problem with upright rows before but they don't seem too popular. Would shrugs not be quite trap specific?

tribulus

Hanley wrote:

I would caution against clean variations for beginners... Most likely scenario is that it's turned into a bastardized upright row/reverse curl movement.

Problem is most people, beginners espscially, have way to much arm bend as they pull. It takes the explosive element of the lift away.

I WAS gonna suggest snatch grip high pulls in place of upright rows, but again i'd expect too much arm bend to get any upper back benefit from the exercise. So shrugs would be the way I'd go!

I think I'm finally starting to stop that - hopefully

Having said that I don't think OP is a beginner, more just out of practise!

Hanley

Sangre wrote:

Yeah was thinking squats and deads on same day was a bit much. Program I was working off didn't have deads so wasn't sure where to put it. Might put it in chest & back and move legs to last day. Might change that though depending on how I find this, what my time is like.

Never really had a problem with upright rows before but they don't seem too popular. Would shrugs not be quite trap specific?

What are you trying to achieve with up right rows?

Serious question. Knowing that will make recommending an alternative better. And hey.. you can't do upright rows forever anyway, so even if you can do the pain free, it's always good to have alternatives to switch up to.

Sangre

By the by I would definitely put myself in the noob category. I've never done proper lifting with any seriousness, was more focused on nutrition/cardio. Case in point, whats a clean variation?

My goals? - to get bigger and stronger. I'm not looking for 'big arms' or 'big legs'. Just an overall mass/strength increase. I was under the impression that shrugs were more specialised than upright lifts but I don't actually know for sure.
My program is far from set in stone, I welcome all advice! Have no idea how long I'll keep it either, probably until I'm back in a motion of good,solid exercise.

Also, thanks for the quick replies!

Hanley

"Cleans" are the first part of the olympic lift, the clean and jerk. A clean variation is one that isn't a "full" clean, but mimics certain parts of the motion.

eg - power clean: a clean without a drop to catch it in a front squat
hang clean: the bar starts at knee level, not the floor
clean pulls (also snatch pulls): you start the bar from the floor, throw your hips in, jump and shrug, but you don't "rack" the bar on your shoulders. It's pulled to around nipple height. A snatch pull is one with a much wider grip on the bar

I meant what are upright rows doing for you specifically? Like there's better movements for the upper back and rear delts imo.

If I was looking to lay out a basic back routine here's how it's look;

Deadlifts
Chin ups
Bent over rows
Barbell shrugs

All big compound movements, hitting pretty much all the muscles in your back. They can all be done heavy. With upright rows you're severly limiting the total load you can use.

Oh and oops... I only just noticed your upright rows were part of your shoulder day!! I'd still stick with shrugs on the back day.

Also, do your shoulder presses in front of the shoulders. Less stress and generally you can go heavier. I use behind the neck presses occasionally, but only to work on flexibility and I only ever go super light on them 40-50kg x8.

tribulus

Shrugs should be fine.

Once you do good heavy benching, rowing, pulling, squatting etc. you should only need a couple of sets for isolation type stuff like shrugs, curls and the like.

I'd say keep things fresh, rotate similiar exercises every few weeks e.g swap Barbell bench for dunmbell bench, DB Row for chin ups. Change your rep scheme, even doing the same workout but in reverse can provide a fresh stimulus for your muscles.

As a very general guideline, 6-12 reps for most things should be good for mass, I prefer using the lower end 6-8 for my compound stuff and higher end 10-12 for curls, extensions etc. though it's not very important.

Find what works for you and stick at it.
And eat enough of course!

mloc

just noticed there that you're (trib and hanley) not mad about upright rows? any reason? I've doing them recently supersetted with lat raises, with good results. In particular, the row part of the superset really works the shoulders.

I tend to do them relatively light and strict, although I've seen people doing them heavy with a wider grip and a fair bit of cheating (usually called heavy pulls or something instead of upright rows).

What alternatives are there? I wouldn't mind having a few for mixing it up sometimes. I usually do military press (sometimes clean and press) and rear cable extensions for shoulders too.

tribulus

This is just in my own experience but:

I find they do very little for me, other than hurt my shoulders a bit and anything that does that gets binned.

I've tried light, heavy, strict, "body english" close grip, wider grip, I don't feel it.

For traps I'd rather shrugs (as well deads, squats etc.) and for delts, OH pressing and a few lateral raises does me fine, as well as some face pulls which I quite like.

Shoulder health comes first for me and if, like upright rows, they don't feel right, then I'll find an alternative.

Similiarly I don't really like skull crushers, dips between benches, most tricep extensions tbh, I just rely on different pressing movements then literally 2-3 sets of light extensions for my tris.

t-ha

Face-pulls work as well as upright rows for shoulders IMO, and externally rotate the shoulders too (which would be a good addition for most people's programmes).

Hanley

mloc wrote:

just noticed there that you're (trib and hanley) not mad about upright rows? any reason? I've doing them recently supersetted with lat raises, with good results. In particular, the row part of the superset really works the shoulders.

I tend to do them relatively light and strict, although I've seen people doing them heavy with a wider grip and a fair bit of cheating (usually called heavy pulls or something instead of upright rows).

What alternatives are there? I wouldn't mind having a few for mixing it up sometimes. I usually do military press (sometimes clean and press) and rear cable extensions for shoulders too.

I dislike upright rows because they put your shoulder in an extremely internally rotated position. It's asking for trouble IMO.

Face pulls ( http://www.ironworkout.com/face.jpg) are the absolute shizzz in my opinion. I really like them as a movement. Do them heavy for low reps, do them strict and super slow, it's all good!!

Also the "cheating" you refer to is probably an olympic lift assistance exercise called snatch pulls http://fdudevils.com/devilspower/pages/snpull.html Thedifference with snatch pulls is that there's NO arm involved. The movent of the bar is generated by throwing the hips in and jumping with a shrug