Live 1/1 hand

Slash/ED

In the jackpot on monday playing their 1/1 pot limit holdem game, when this hand happens.

I pick up ten six of spades in the cut off. It's folded round to me, which is quite unusual, I make it three to go. One caller, the BB.

I've a stack of 95, BB has me well covered having a pretty sick run of cards, hit a two outer on someone and floated with queen/jack no draw to the river hitting to beat someone else in two noteable pots. He's an aggressive player who seems to like calling very, very light.

Flop comes 9 9 10 rainbow. BB checks, I pot it for 7, BB calls.

Pots 20 on the turn, it comes a 6, there's now two clubs on board. BB pots it for 20. My read on him here is he has absolute complete and utter air. I think if he'd any hand he was comfortable was ahead here, such as a better ten or an overpair and most certainly a 9, he'd check every time. I raise him to 50 (Comments? This leaves me 35 behind, this was my biggest mistake here, should I have just potted it?). He thinks about it for a while and eventually calls.

At this stage, I think the absolute best he could have is something like ace or king 6.

River, with a pot of 120, is the ace of clubs. He shoves.

Action? With 35 behind me, surely folding here is simply not an option? I don't think the player understands pot odds or how pot committed I am, and I'm 100% certain he was shoving no matter what the river was, so is this a definite call?

I think for a while, but I know I'm calling. BB shows ace 7 off suit. I'm baffled, and he takes the pot

I think my raise on the turn was horrible, should have made it more, but I thought he'd absolute air and would shove any river given the chance. Given how incredible far ahead of him I actually was on the turn, is there any justification for this, or should we just take down the pot there and then? I was 100% I'd the best of it on the turn, and thought he'd overcards or an overcard at best, maybe a six, turns out he was drawing to a three outer. Should I have folded the river, surely with the odds I'm getting even if I suspected he'd overcard(s) and the ace would be the most likely one I have to call?

Anyway, general comments?

phantom_lord

raise to 4 pf if you're going to raise, folding is best tho, (that's pot right?)

If your read is that he has complete air/overcards then just call the turn.

you're not ahead of anything on the river, might as well save your 35.

Lissavalley

Pot the turn. Put pressure on. However some might advocate also getting some one to call that much with 3 outs on river is good play. Id have put him on 6 outs so Id have potted it

Slash/ED

phantom_lord wrote:

you're not ahead of anything on the river, might as well save your 35.

More often than not I'd agree, but with the odds I'm given and the fact I think king/six is in his range here, or he could even have another ten and we're chopping, I think the odds are right for a call on the river. He could also queen/jack for the missed open ended straight draw, or some cack like king/jack king/queen, none of which I'd have been surprised to see him turn over. I think I had to call on the river.

Goodluck2me

what seat were you in btw? i played this game too.

sikes

just to clarify here, why are you raising preflop, given the info on the BB?

Slash/ED

sikes wrote:

just to clarify here, why are you raising preflop, given the info on the BB?

Because of the mammoth implied odds, given I nearly (And probably would have had the ace not hit as he'd have shoved anyway) doubled up with top pair no kicker I think raiseing here with him on BB was the right move. If I just call I'm also letting the SB in free, wont be nearly as sure where I am on that flop with that in mind and the BB will probably lose interest in the hand so I'm either winning a tiny, tiny pot or loseing a slightly larger one.

"what seat were you in btw? i played this game too."

Sat to the left of the dealer, I was there from around 1ish to nearly 3, where were you?

Goodluck2me

was that in table beside the door or the one beside the yamaha? i was in seat 9/3 in the door table and seat 3 in the yamaha for a while.

Slash/ED

It's the one immediately to your left when you come in the door, it's table one for all their tournaments there

Goodluck2me

Slash/ED wrote:

It's the one immediately to your left when you come in the door, it's table one for all their tournaments there

you were wearing a chef uniform?

Slash/ED

goodluck2me wrote:

you were wearing a chef uniform?

A what? Not that I remember, no. I was wearing a white zip up top if memory serves

tribulus

I think as said before, I'd fold preflop most of the time given the BB.
I'd be happy to take the blinds here with 10 6s unless i hit the flop hard.

I think you need to be very certain of your read here to raise the turn, if so why not a shove.

The ace is a horrible card. ~4.5 to 1 to call, read dependent again i suppose.

Trippie

tribulus wrote:

I'd be happy to take the blinds here with 10 6s unless i hit the flop hard.

are you for real, i think this is the most ridiculous thing i have heard on boards in a long time. its a 1/1 game and folded around to him that means there is 2 quid in the pot.

if 2 quid means a lot to you im sure we could have a collection and we may be able to come up with a fiver for you.

im willing to donate a euro already

sikes

Slash/ED wrote:

Because of the mammoth implied odds, given I nearly (And probably would have had the ace not hit as he'd have shoved anyway) doubled up with top pair no kicker I think raiseing here with him on BB was the right move. If I just call I'm also letting the SB in free, wont be nearly as sure where I am on that flop with that in mind and the BB will probably lose interest in the hand so I'm either winning a tiny, tiny pot or loseing a slightly larger one.

I didnt advocate limping.

You have a ~90BB stack, mammoth implied odds against one caller, with this ****e, is stretching it.

Slash/ED

sikes wrote:

I didnt advocate limping.

You have a ~90BB stack, mammoth implied odds against one caller, with this ****e, is stretching it.

It's the implied odds of any two really. I know I can out manuever him on the flop, and it's an easy fold for me if he's ahead of my one pair I'm pretty sure I'd know it and be able to fold it no problem. I don't see the problem with building a pot in position against someone who plays ace 7 off like the BB, if I come out of the flop behind I fold and I've lost 3 euro. If I come out ahead, I could potentially double up, and if the ace didn't hit on the river I would have.

I'm not raiseing hopeing to hit a pair and going broke regardless just praying it's good.

Trippie

Slash/ED wrote:

It's the implied odds of any two really. I know I can out manuever him on the flop, .

its the jackpot its not exactly hard with the standard of cash play

I don't see the problem with building a pot in position against someone who plays ace 7 off like the BB,

making it 3 preflop is hardly building a pot with the hope of stacking someone,why not limp and reraise in that case and then you can build a proper pot

Slash/ED

Trippie wrote:

its the jackpot its not exactly hard with the standard of cash play

Ha, true

making it 3 preflop is hardly building a pot with the hope of stacking someone,why not limp and reraise in that case and then you can build a pot

It's enough to keep him interested, I think. The raise was mainly to take out the SB though and not allow him a free flop, I wanted the BB heads up. I certainly didn't expect to stack him but I thought if I could get him heads up in a raised flop he'd put money in with nothing and it'd me upto my reads then.

sikes

Slash/ED wrote:

It's the implied odds of any two really. I know I can out manuever him on the flop, and it's an easy fold for me if he's ahead of my one pair I'm pretty sure I'd know it and be able to fold it no problem. I don't see the problem with building a pot in position against someone who plays ace 7 off like the BB, if I come out of the flop behind I fold and I've lost 3 euro. If I come out ahead, I could potentially double up, and if the ace didn't hit on the river I would have.

I'm not raiseing hopeing to hit a pair and going broke regardless just praying it's good.

to me you are contradicting yourself. on one hand you think you have great implied odds cos he is a lose maniac and will bet and call down with air, and the other you think you can out maneuver him on the flop which i assume you mean bluff him off his hand.

Getting into raise pots in position against players is fine. as long as you are clear what you want to do. If its a maniac i want a hand that i can value bet him to death with, if he is someone that calls out of the blinds and folds to a c-bet then it doesn't really matter what i have.

You are also discounting the presence of the button in the hand.

cardshark202

I like just calling the turn and allowing him to bluff the river.

Trippie

Slash/ED wrote:

It's enough to keep him interested, I think.

its the jackpot a tenner is enough to keep most ppl interested

The raise was mainly to take out the SB though and not allow him a free flop, I wanted the BB heads up..

why?its a 1/1 game you want as much action as possible and keeping the small blind in the hand is paramount to this

Slash/ED

sikes wrote:

to me you are contradicting yourself. on one hand you think you have great implied odds cos he is a lose maniac and will bet and call down with air, and the other you think you can out maneuver him on the flop which i assume you mean bluff him off his hand.

Sorry, I phrased it wrong, essentially with this opponent it means I'm pretty sure I'll know when my one pair is good and when it's not and get the money in when it is, not much point bluffing him I agree, if I didn't flop the best hand I wasn't going to get out of line. Not really out maneuvering I agree.

Getting into raise pots in position against players is fine. as long as you are clear what you want to do. If its a maniac i want a hand that i can value bet him to death with, if he is someone that calls out of the blinds and folds to a c-bet then it doesn't really matter what i have.

You are also discounting the presence of the button in the hand.

That's true, but he was a fairly tight player. If he called, my interest in the hand was gone. Another reason to raise it, he'd probably have stuck a euro into a three euro pot.

why?its a 1/1 game you want as much action as possible and keeping the small blind in the hand is paramount to this

Well if I didn't raise and the sb was in, perhaps even the button, I would have much less idea where I was at on that flop and would probably have had to lay it down on the flop especially if the button was in.

Trippie

Slash/ED wrote:

Well if I didn't raise and the sb was in, perhaps even the button, I would have much less idea where I was at on that flop and would probably have had to lay it down on the flop especially if the button was in.

if we knew where we were in every hand it would be a pretty easy game,now wouldnt it?

before i say this let me say i am a student and am known to some people on here but the majority of the studenty type players who come on to boards and go on and on about a hand are rubbish.let me tell you in my limited knowledge of the game i know that there is more to poker than harrington on holdem.you's go on and on about decisions made in 20 quid pots and talk about your reads and image and position as if you's are all knowledgeable and that they mean everything.

ok firstly its a live irish poker game played in dublin and in the jackpot of all places which means unless you are playing in the bigger game these concepts do not come in to effect and even then it is more about being ahead when the gambling is over and you's are missing out on so many pots by trying to play proper poker.it doesnt work in the jackpot!! trust me

i really cant take you serious anymore especially after a thread with 20 posts you have only now realised the button is behind you in the hand.

btw i know i come accross as a cocky git but if you ask any of the college lads on here they will tell you i have some sort of concept of how the game is played.

Slash/ED

I realised the button was in the hand before, obviously, I just thought he'd fold unless he had a hand as he was fairly tight and hadn't played many pots since I'd sat down so he wasn't featureing largely in my thinking. If he got involved, my interest in the hand would plummet, and I'd more than likely check fold that flop. What on earth makes you think I'd somehow not think the person to my left would be involved in the hand!? What are you actually talking about here? He didn't feature in my thinking much because I expected him to fold his hand more often than not. If he didn't I'd have to hit the flop hard to continue.

What would you advocate, then, pre flop? Limping to get more in? Folding? Raiseing the pot? If I limp and it's raised I'm less sure where I am, by raising and him cold calling I can put him on a narrower range (I can rule out any decent pocket pair and a very strong ace as he'd almost always repot), I don't really think my hand is the kind of hand I want to limp raise with.

I certainly do not consider myself all knowledgeable, hence why I'd feel the need to post this hand, so I'd genuinley want to know what you'd do here and why exactly. Would you only take on the BB with a very strong hand pre flop? Is that not letting an oppurtunity pass you by if you go card dead?

Trippie

Slash/ED wrote:

What would you advocate, then, pre flop? Limping to get more in? Folding? Raiseing the pot?

its not the action its the mentality i was criticising, this is the fundamental difference between tournaments and cash,in tourneys you want to isolate players and get heads up but in cash you want to build pots and get it in when yu are a slight favourite and i find most people have not adjusted their game to this

I certainly do not consider myself all knowledgeable, hence why I'd feel the need to post this hand, so I'd genuinley want to know what you'd do here and why exactly.

maybe you are not but i just got the impression byt he way you were going on about reads,implied odds and the likes in previous posts

Would you only take on the BB with a very strong hand pre flop? Is that not letting an oppurtunity pass you by if you go card dead?

i have never lol'd before online but i just cant help but laugh. if you have played with me before then you will realise that i am bordering between a loose aggressive and maniac type style. which btw will be in play in the jackpot tomorrow night as im coming home from england

phantom_lord

i don't get the whole concept of trying to build a pot with 106 pf

I certainly do not consider myself all knowledgeable, hence why I'd feel the need to post this hand, so I'd genuinley want to know what you'd do here and why exactly

fold pf cause you've a crap hand that u don't want any action on at all.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I think Reggie's line is best. You pot it on the turn he folds all hands you have beat and calls you when you are behind. Checking and allowing him to bluff the pot on all rivers (which it sounds like he will) is best.

yeah, I agree with that, that's why I said just call the turn, I should have expanded on that a little...

johnnysmurfman

You just got outplayed.

phantom_lord

johnnysmurfman wrote:

You just got outplayed.

at what point?

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

Slash/ED

Trippie wrote:

its not the action its the mentality i was criticising, this is the fundamental difference between tournaments and cash,in tourneys you want to isolate players and get heads up but in cash you want to build pots and get it in when yu are a slight favourite and i find most people have not adjusted their game to this

I agree but ideally I'd want a stronger hand than 10 6, if I did get alot of action it'd depend on the flop obviously it's the kind of hand that could hit hard but not very often, I'd rather a 10 9 or 10 jack for that.

I think Reggie's line is best. You pot it on the turn he folds all hands you have beat and calls you when you are behind. Checking and allowing him to bluff the pot on all rivers (which it sounds like he will) is best.

Yeah, I think this should have been my line here. With that in mind, would you fold the river? It definitely fits alot of potential holdings he had and the odds wouldn't nearly as good. I think this gives me a tougher decision on the river, but ultimately I'd win more and lose less the times when he hits and misses, so yeah, should have called the turn.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

sikes

Trippie wrote:

its not the action its the mentality i was criticising, this is the fundamental difference between tournaments and cash,in tourneys you want to isolate players and get heads up but in cash you want to build pots and get it in when yu are a slight favourite and i find most people have not adjusted their game to this

this is ridiculous

phantom_lord

as is most of the thread tbh.

valor

you should fold this garbage hand preflop, 100% of the time

given your read, i would just call turn and call any river

Hectorjelly

sikes wrote:

this is ridiculous

The first time I read it I thought he was joking!

Bandara

'in cash you want to build pots and get it in when you are a slight favourite'

As someone who is starting to get to grips with playing cash games can someone please explain to me why I should build big pots with hands where I'm a 'slight favourite'

Can I not just wait till I actually have a good hand, sounds like a lot more of a long term profitable scenario.

Also, I always fold 10 6 preflop, is this a leak in my game, should I bring these suited connectors (connectors = any cards that are less than four cards apart) into my strategy?