Nut Flush Draw OOP

Sangre

Dealer: FeZo13 is the dealer
Dealer: Starting a new hand (#495328372)
Dealer: Starting a new hand (#495328372)
Dealer: FishDigger posts Small Blind $0.50
Dealer: sangre85 posts Big Blind $1
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards Ac 8c
Dealer: expbengan calls $1
Dealer: Becanto folds
Dealer: BadBeatTrader raises $4
Dealer: FeZo13 calls $4
Dealer: FishDigger calls $3.50
Dealer: sangre85 calls $3
Dealer: expbengan calls $3
Dealer: Dealing Flop
4c Jc Qd
Dealer: FishDigger checks
Dealer: sangre85 checks
Dealer: expbengan bets $2
Dealer: BadBeatTrader raises $24
Dealer: FeZo13 folds
Dealer: FishDigger folds

I never know how to play these draws out of position. Comments on check? Should I lead out?

Whats my line now?

No notes/stats on pf raiser. Guy who has called seems a bit donkish calling station, not too worried about him or anyone else in pot. The previous hand I took down a big pot without showing my kings.

BobSloane

Now you raise or fold. 24 into a pot of 18 looks like he wants to end it here. Still, you have nothing but a draw so I'd probably fold.
I would have bet the flop though probably.

PF raiser could well have your Kings this time. What are the stack sizes?

That muppet who bet $2 could well have a hand too as bets like that are creepy and tend to imply a gutless,pointless effort to steal the pot or a big hand like a set or 2 pair. Or he might have a 4 and be betting what he thinks his pair of 4s is worth- weirdo's

Sangre

Sorry, we both have about $150

RasTa

I normally bet my draws to try and get a free card. He is playing it like he has an over-pair, small% a set. I fold here.

BobSloane

Sangre wrote:

Sorry, we both have about $150

If you raise and he re-raises then you're going down the road of playing for stacks as a probabale 2-1 dog. Your ace could be an out but its not guarenteed. If you raise and he calls and the turn is a blank then what? Theres also the possibility that the other clown between ye with the $2 bet has something worthwhile. I'd usually fold here unless I was boozed up or had just got laid and was feeling lucky

phantom_lord

fold

pf too btw.

fixer

what were you hoping to hit by calling the pf raise? 2 pair? Likely enough someone else has a higher 2 pair. 3 clubs? How are you going to make any money? 2 clubs? You got what you wanted.

You needed to have made the decision pre-flop. If it were me and I made this call, it's because I chose to go broke betting on my flush, so I lead out or re-raise all-in. or something like that.

SpermManJelly

I admire expbengan 2 dollar bet into a 20 or so pot advanced play none the less, thou that bet actually ****s up the way the hold hand will play.Anyways yeah you have to fold

When playing these draws out of position it depends on so many factors theres obviously not one definitve way ot play them.You should prolly post an example of a hand with a flush draw where your out of postion.

Sperm Man Jelly.

Sangre

fixer wrote:

what were you hoping to hit by calling the pf raise? 2 pair? Likely enough someone else has a higher 2 pair. 3 clubs? How are you going to make any money? 2 clubs? You got what you wanted.

You needed to have made the decision pre-flop. If it were me and I made this call, it's because I chose to go broke betting on my flush, so I lead out or re-raise all-in. or something like that.

Well this is kind of the reasoning I took, that and I was annoyed I didn't lead out on the pot, also felt his bet sizing was a bit odd. So I check raised all in. I was called by top 2 and had no luck with the cards. I've been wondering how to best play my draws recently so I think you'll be seeing more of these types of hands.

Mr. Flibble

If I think there is any decent chance that he will fold then I will raise 60 or so more. If I don't think there's any fold equity I'd chuck it.

I would usually lead with the nut fd though. Much better fold equity if you lead, they raise and you reraise.

phantom_lord

we almost certainly have no folding equity here, it should be an easy fold i think.

Gholimoli

phantom_lord wrote:

fold

pf too btw.

Are you joking?
He is getting better than 4:1(even better when people call behind him) on the call with a hand that plays very well multiway and you are telling him to fold pre-flop ???

I often prefer a check raise here.

phantom_lord

Gholimoli wrote:

Are you joking?
He is getting better than 4:1(even better when people call behind him) on the call with a hand that plays very well multiway and you are telling him to fold pre-flop ???

No, I;m not, pf odds are a bit irrelevent tbh. we've no control over the hand, and while it's a nice drawing hand, we're almost never gonna get the right conditions to draw. On top of the fact we're gonna miss a huge amount of the time.


But then again, I'm a folding machine