DTT IRL - Glass half-full?

dgently

I'm a triallist, which perhaps explains my "more upbeat than average" take on the current trial.

I personally don't take the "August 08" end date too seriously - I suspect that once the Dept. closes off the open questions (eg MPEG4?, HD?) they could move to a commercial launch faster than that.

The big big question is the commercials underpinning the scrambled "pay" channels. If they get it right (and they have some very clever people in there), there could finally be widespread availabilty of what people really want at a price that is not inflated by a network operators "dominance tax" (eg Sky, NTL).

There is a long queue of wannabe triple and quad players anxious to wrap DTT into their bundles. The Irish DTT model (four free, pay for the rest) is perfect for them. We might see some honest-to-God competition - imagine that!

Inevitably, there will be rows about coverage. It's also obvious that what is being done now should have been years ago. All the same, I think they're going about it the right way and that it may launch sooner rather than later.

I work in a related industry, and not for the Dept. ;-)

byte

We have a traillist in our midst?

Ooh. Any chance of some info on the equipment like Make/model/etc?

As for a commercial launch sooner than August 2008, I won't hold my breath.

Congrats on being one of the lucky few anyway!

watty

Actually in reality it is probably nothing much to do with the Fish & Chips Dept. Esp if a different government arrives.

BowWow

dgently wrote:

I'm a triallist

ok, how'd you get to be one?:D

dgently

byte wrote:

We have a traillist in our midst?

Ooh. Any chance of some info on the equipment like Make/model/etc?

As for a commercial launch sooner than August 2008, I won't hold my breath.

Congrats on being one of the lucky few anyway!

DTT version of this http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/HDCI-2000.asp

dgently

watty wrote:

Actually in reality it is probably nothing much to do with the Fish & Chips Dept. Esp if a different government arrives.

Perhaps the politicians will have the ultimate say in budget and timing, but the interesting decisions will be made in the Dept

Fingleberries

Having such a long, closed, drawn-out trial process and then leaving it so viewers might still have to pay for the DTT will surely defeat the purpose and drive many who were waiting for the outcome of the trial before making a decision.

I mean, why wait 18 months only to discover you will still have to pay for the extra channels? That in itself is the opposite of the DTT / Freeview system in the UK. There you get a reasonable selection of channels and if (for whatever reason) you want to watch Bingo TV, or QVC-14, then you can buy your top-up TV card.

I'm sure as it stands it will drive many to FTA Satellite (or worse, to Sky!)... and maybe that has been the long-term plan by the government anyway?

JHMEG

dgently wrote:

DTT version of this http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/HDCI-2000.asp

That's a satellite STB?

DMC

He did say DTT version. He may have linked to a satellite receiver, but he said its a DTT bosca.

Delboy5

How or can you still become a trialist !?

JHMEG

DMC wrote:

He did say DTT version. He may have linked to a satellite receiver, but he said its a DTT bosca.

Yeah, but there is no DTT version.. unless it's some top secret version only for the Dept of Communications etc?

weehamster

Maybe its one of these? :rolleyes:

From Humax's Website

HUMAX Becomes First to Supply MPEG4-based Terrestrial HD STB to Italy: May 26, 2006

Recently HUMAX became the first company in the world to supply MPEG4-based terrestrial HD set-top boxes (HDCI-2000T) to Italy. A limited number of STBs is being made available in Italy on a trial basis during the World Cup through the company's technical partner Rai, the Italian public terrestrial broadcaster.

Although the quantity being supplied is not large at this time, HUMAX is excited about being the first to supply the set-top boxes in Italy, working with a significant public broadcasting company as its technical partner and paving the way for the era of HD terrestrial broadcasting. HUMAX also expects a positive rippling effect as more European terrestrial broadcasters plan their roll out of HD broadcasts.

weehamster

Mayo Exile

A piece on the trial launch in ElectricNews.net says that a Humax "one for all" STB was used in yesterday's demo.

Read here:

http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9952798.html

SRB

You know, I hate to say this, but it wouldn't surprise me if they'd used a "one for all" to control both the TV and Humax - hence that being reported as the name. Also reading that, you'd think the UK was waiting to switch off each region's analogue services BEFORE turning their DTT service on.

watty

DTT trial launched today, (again)

http://www.enn.ie/frontpage/news-9952798.html

Move along folks... nothing to see.

watty

weehamster wrote:

Maybe its one of these? :rolleyes:

From Humax's Website

If that is the one used by BBC HD trial in London, yes.

doh.ie

watty wrote:

If that is the one used by BBC HD trial in London, yes.

It is. Same one being used in the trial. The trial boxes are provided with a Conax TechniCrypt PCMCIA-type card, which then has a DCMNR card to go into that.

Can't be many of these in actual production - Weehamster's London trial pics are identical, even down to the location of the 'Trial Only' sticker for the Irish trial (though the cardboard box isn't the same - came in a proper coloured one) - and there's only one actual MPEG-4 channel in our trial (yet).

dgently

Fingleberries wrote:

Having such a long, closed, drawn-out trial process and then leaving it so viewers might still have to pay for the DTT will surely defeat the purpose and drive many who were waiting for the outcome of the trial before making a decision.

What decision? Practically everyone in Ireland who wants a TV service has one. Isn't the issue how good an alternative/replacement DTT will be when it arrives?

Most people anticipated that only domestic channels would be Freeview. The crucial issues for me are

1. The quality of the pay channels.
2. The flexibility I will have to pick and mix them, to choose as many or as few as I please. If they can achieve this, the prices will be set by the market.
3 The upfront cost.

I imagine others will be hoping that HD makes it through - I'm not bothered. I'd just hate to see these valuable frequencies filled with the garbage channels that are inevitably used in other platforms.

Issues 1 and 2 will depend on the imagination of the sponsors when it comes to setting down the commercials.

byte

That's sure a nice STB! I like the dot-matrix display. I wonder do the triallists get to keep the STB's after the trial

satgirl

dgently wrote:

Perhaps the politicians will have the ultimate say in budget and timing, but the interesting decisions will be made in the Dept

My guess is that the duration of the trial has a lot to do with giving NTL Ireland a chance to finish updating its network and get into the game.

BowWow

satgirl wrote:

My guess is that the duration of the trial has a lot to do with giving NTL Ireland a chance to finish updating its network and get into the game.

Agree with that statement.

muincav

dgently wrote:

DTT version of this http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/HDCI-2000.asp

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but you still havent told us how you got to become a triallist!Im sure that there would have been plenty of willing participants in this forum...maybe its not what you know its who..
As for keeping the equipment when the trial is finished, (we are talking about the present rulers of our Celtic pit bull) I DONT THINK SO!!!!:mad:

BowWow

dgently wrote:

I'm a triallist

dgently, have you actually got the box yet? If so are you receiving anything on the non-FTA stations?

dgently

muincav wrote:

Maybe I missed it somewhere, but you still havent told us how you got to become a triallist!Im sure that there would have been plenty of willing participants in this forum...maybe its not what you know its who..
As for keeping the equipment when the trial is finished, (we are talking about the present rulers of our Celtic pit bull) I DONT THINK SO!!!!:mad:

I am a member of the priory of Sion. I think all the initial triallists are.


I work with a company that is supporting the trial, and have an aerial.

dgently

BowWow wrote:

dgently, have you actually got the box yet? If so are you receiving anything on the non-FTA stations?

Yes they're all present and correct, apart from the MPEG4 test channel which had a blank screen with the Sky News audio feed. I had thought that might be a HD test (my tv is SD), but I'm pretty sure there is no HD version of Sky News. Sky News proper is transmitted seperately on a normal channel.

JDxtra

I wonder if the feeds for Sky News etc are just re-broadcast from a satellite signal...?

JDxtra

satgirl wrote:

My guess is that the duration of the trial has a lot to do with giving NTL Ireland a chance to finish updating its network and get into the game.

I disagree. Why would the govt. care about what NTL are planning to do?

Cablelink/NTL/UPC/whatever have had it on a plate in Dublin for far too long. They've been cleaning up, and only providing a sub-standard service. A bit of free competition will do them no harm.

BowWow

dgently wrote:

Yes they're all present and correct, apart from the MPEG4 test channel which had a blank screen with the Sky News audio feed. I had thought that might be a HD test (my tv is SD), but I'm pretty sure there is no HD version of Sky News. Sky News proper is transmitted seperately on a normal channel.

I have an HD set and am willing to take the box off you and let you know how it works on the MPEG4 channel:D

BowWow

JDxtra wrote:

I disagree. Why would the govt. care about what NTL are planning to do?

The loss of a few hundred jobs perhaps?

muincav

dgently wrote:

I am a member of the priory of Sion. I think all the initial triallists are.


I work with a company that is supporting the trial, and have an aerial.

And what company might that be?Probably one that stands to gain an awful lot of (Da Vinci code) Euro!
I guess I was right-its not what you know its who you know!:eek:

SPDUB

dgently wrote:

I am a member of the priory of Sion. I think all the initial triallists are.


I work with a company that is supporting the trial, and have an aerial.

Sorry if it sounds like I am I taking a pop at you personally ,but I really am not,but how exactly does that make you a member of the "public " and not one of the interested parties or does the Dept have a strange defination of the "public"

muincav

SPDUB wrote:

Sorry if it sounds like I am I taking a pop at you personally ,but I really am not,but how exactly does that make you a member of the "public " and not one of the interested parties or does the Dept have a strange defination of the "public"

Well said SPDUB!!Im sure there are a lot of the so called triallists that have a vested interest and a buddy who is also a member of a certain political party..
There I go again, getting all paranoid about the country we live in...Time for bed and sleep and dreams (at least I can trust my dreams for the truth)
nitey nite:eek:

dgently

SPDUB wrote:

Sorry if it sounds like I am I taking a pop at you personally ,but I really am not,but how exactly does that make you a member of the "public " and not one of the interested parties or does the Dept have a strange defination of the "public"

My employer might be an interested party, I'm not in a position to know how interested.

I am participating in the trial (and posting here) as a consumer of television service. If you're asking me to defend whatever selection process was applied, I wouldn't know where to begin.

DMC

We're getting some nice info, info hitherto not available to us, so conspiracy theories won't last long here!

Don't shoot the messenger.

Mossy Monk

looks like a lot on envy here :rolleyes: at least be thankful that dgently has even bothered to post here

JDxtra

BowWow wrote:

The loss of a few hundred jobs perhaps?

That's a bit extreme. The possible shedding a few jobs over at the the utterly incompetent NTL/Chorus/UPC camp shouldn't be an excuse the hold back on DTT progress! In fact, a bit of good competition will hopefully force them to get their act together quicker and become a more forward thinking company.

DMC

Its not too extreme. Without going all political, the government could ill afford a few more job losses with an election around the corner. Yes, you could be right in saying NTL/Chorus are incompetent. Yes, a good DTT package could hurt them. But yet, its jobs, its industry and they have leverage.

rlogue

I do not think we should stall new technology because we're worried about job losses. The Irish cablecos have had 10 years to ramp up for the introduction of digital cable and if a DTTV service blows them away then so be it.

Shouldn't we have had universal access to digital cable, VOIP services, decent broadband and an end to analogue VHF cable by now?

fta keith

Well if the 4 basic tv channels are the only tv channels which are fta on the eventual roll out that will suit me as Channel 6's output and the rest of the scrambled pilot tv channels are not worth paying for as some of them are fta on digital satellite

Fingleberries

fta keith wrote:

Well if the 4 basic tv channels are the only tv channels which are fta on the eventual roll out that will suit me as Channel 6's output and the rest of the scrambled pilot tv channels are not worth paying for as some of them are fta on digital satellite

I still say, what's the point in that type of set up of 4 basic channels? (if that's how it goes)
There's no benefit to the viewer unless they fork out for the extra channels ... who's to say that it won't be an annual fee? ...
At that rate you might as well just go for $ky and be done with it.

watty

JDxtra wrote:

That's a bit extreme. The possible shedding a few jobs over at the the utterly incompetent NTL/Chorus/UPC camp shouldn't be an excuse the hold back on DTT progress! In fact, a bit of good competition will hopefully force them to get their act together quicker and become a more forward thinking company.

They are upgrading as fast as they can after years of Chorus & NTL Ireland Neglect.

Expect the Analogue on Chorus MMDS to be gone first and have same digital lineup as NTL MMDS (already 100% digital).

Expect a very minimal Analogue line up on cable (I'm guessing 8 channels Max, maybe even only 5).

watty

The line up & which channels are FTA in the "trial" is NOTHING to do with any final rollout.

I would thing the ONLY hard decision in the last 12 months on DTT roll out is that the State/RTENL will do it rather than auction of the DTT licence, which obviously since colapse of "It's TV" bid was not/is not happening.

The current trail, as originally envisaged has very little to do with reality.

lawhec

Bear in mind that Virgin Media still has analogue TV on their cable systems in Belfast and Derry, though they are due to switch this all off later this year I believe.

Converting UPC Dublin's network to completely digital would send quite a lot of people up s*it creek over complaints of being unable to watch one channel, record another, splitting the signal to other TVs in the house etc. without paying additional costs each month.

In any case the main reason for cable TV in Dublin (relaying of UK TV signals and getting the city delisted as an aircraft hazard) is one now no longer relevant thanks to FTA satellite in most cases, unless you're a Channel 4 buff. UPC will undoubtly have to focus like providers in the UK do and concentrate on multichannel TV with the UK terrestials as a bonus rather than being a major selling point.

The Irish Republic has been sitting on its hands now on some high powered DTT allocations for nearly a decade. Its a shame that it only seems to be finally getting its arse in gear now. And will it even get above first?

DMC

lawhec wrote:

Converting UPC Dublin's network to completely digital would send quite a lot of people up s*it creek over complaints of being unable to watch one channel, record another, splitting the signal to other TVs in the house etc. without paying additional costs each month.

A lot of people are quite content with the NTL basic analogue package... it's heresy to a lot of people here, but its true...

watty

They will keep a handfull of analogue channels. But they need the bandwidth for their Broadband and Digital . One Analogue channel = up to 500 Broadband users or 6 to 10 digital channels (12 to 20 in MPEG4).

UPC is 100% commited to phone/BB/200+ channel bundle. (no eircom line needed and phone unlike Blueface/Smart076 good enough for phonewatch, fax or even Sky Digiboxes).

Indeed the original reason for MMDS and cable is gone.

dgently

DMC wrote:

A lot of people are quite content with the NTL basic analogue package... it's heresy to a lot of people here, but its true...

Agreed. I'd be one of them. I personally think Sky have a lot more to be nervous about than NTL. Cancel NTL and you have a dead socket. Cancel Sky and you've got (arguably) most of what you had.

If you add free digital domestic stations via the DTT tuner on your TV, you've got practically all of the terrestrials back.

Sky are sitting on over €1bn in RoI revenues. The football monopoly is not what it used to be. Sky+ & HD will help, but DTT must be a worrying prospect for them.

watty

Isn't competiton wonderful? Maybe Sky & UPC will bring out ala Carte channel choice instead of "packages" with 80% channels you never watch and/or a cheaper basic pack. I'm paying Sky about 22 Euro (2 mix pack) to basically watch about 6 channels. Our Analogue TV is perfect and since there are 4 to 5 TVs and only 1 Sky sub, we use Analogue for the 4 Irish channels.