Hezbollah say to Ireland "you're our friend or our enemy"

mike65

Just listening to RTE radio, a report which follows on from this. It seems the defacto 'real' Lebonese government has decided that Ireland is a running dog of the infidel Amercian Satan and has suggested that peacekeepers are targets and that the best way to avoid being killed is to join Hezbollah attacking Israel.

Priceless.

Mike.

Judt

mike65 wrote:

Just listening to RTE radio, a report which follows on from this. It seems the defacto 'real' Lebonese government has decided that Ireland is a running dog of the infidel Amercian Satan and has suggested that peacekeepers are targets and that the best way to avoid being killed is to join Hezbollah attacking Israel.

Priceless.

Mike.

Our peacekeepers have always been targets. One of the reasons they were viewed as being neutral was because everyone, from Israel to Hezbollah and the various other groups in between, all hated Irish peacekeepers equally. They're spewing crap, and we in Ireland just love it when we're implicated in some major foreign hu-hah. "Ohh, Hezbollah know who we are!!!!"

Zebra3

mike65 wrote:

It seems the defacto 'real' Lebonese government has decided that Ireland is a running dog of the infidel Amercian Satan

Well, that piece is hardly news or hard to disagree with.

scuby

well the way ireland has been percieved, we are going to be a target for extremeists, that is a given...... shannon has been highlighted at world level as being a stop off for US troops and weapons etc... it is going to come back and bite us in the ass !!!!! only a matter of time

Judt

scuby wrote:

well the way ireland has been percieved, we are going to be a target for extremeists, that is a given...... shannon has been highlighted at world level as being a stop off for US troops and weapons etc... it is going to come back and bite us in the ass !!!!! only a matter of time

So what? The aim of terrorism is to terrorise us into bending to somebody elses will. Are you saying that the threat of an attack should make us change our ways? First Shannon, then what else? Stop all travel between the US and Ireland? Kick out the Americans? Adopt Islamic law?

Akrasia

Judt wrote:

So what? The aim of terrorism is to terrorise us into bending to somebody elses will. Are you saying that the threat of an attack should make us change our ways? First Shannon, then what else? Stop all travel between the US and Ireland? Kick out the Americans? Adopt Islamic law?

Um, you can't Irish equate participation in a bloody unending Orwelian war on the middle east, with people going to America on holidays.

What kind of a world do you think we live in, do you think it is just and fair, that we can take part in an aggressive invasion and occupation of at least 2 countries, and still have the moral high ground where we can call foul if we are attacked as part of this war?

We sold our neutrality to the U.S. for the princely sum of a ticket to the white house on st Patricks day for our fearless leader. We are involved in this war, we are a legitimate target. Shannon is a much more legitimate target than many of the bomb craters in the middle east used to be.

marco murphy

Judt wrote:

So what? The aim of terrorism is to terrorise us into bending to somebody elses will. Are you saying that the threat of an attack should make us change our ways? First Shannon, then what else? Stop all travel between the US and Ireland? Kick out the Americans? Adopt Islamic law?

Lets not twist. Ireland IS bending to someone elses will, Americas.
It's hardly stopping all travel between the US and Ireland. The situation is as it always was, US troops are being flown through Ireland, to the onslaught in Iraq. This isnt ''Americans'' we are talking about, its the US military.

The_Minister

If there is a terrorist attack, the only people to blame are those on the left, who have continually highlighted the use of Shannon, have publicised the fact that American planes are landing here, and have advertised Ireland as a legitimate target for the last four years. We are a small country, and the only reason that they are paying any attention to us, is because the left have been waving this in their face for so long.

InFront

If there is a terrorist attack, the only people to blame are those on the left, who have continually highlighted the use of Shannon

Yeah, just like the London anti-war protests are to blame for the terrorist attacks on London. What are you talking about? If Ireland gets bombed it's the terrorists' fault.

Anyway, I find these suggestions hard to believe. The militants have much more high-profile targets than what they see as a small, regional outpost in what might as well, to them, be Lithuania. If they actually wanted to hit the armies involved, they'd attack a military base in the UK or the US. I don't see why they'd go to the west of Ireland.

That said, I'm opposed to the US use of Shannon, but it's out of principle more than anything else.

marco murphy

If there is a terrorist attack, the only people to blame are those on the left, who have continually highlighted the use of Shannon, have publicised the fact that American planes are landing here, and have advertised Ireland as a legitimate target for the last four years. We are a small country, and the only reason that they are paying any attention to us, is because the left have been waving this in their face for so long.

Bull excretement, I can think of a better word however.

gandalf

Poblachtach you had better improve the quality of your replies on here!!!

The Minister I doubt very much there will be a terrorist attack here, it wouldn't be high priority enough. There are plenty of countries who have troops on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan who will be higher up the hitlist.

With regard to Hezbollah all that has to be done is to point out to them that Irish troops have paid the ultimate price in peacekeeping duties for the people of the Lebanon mainly at the hands of the Israelis (mainly by their proxies the SLA).

marco murphy

The_Minister wrote:

If there is a terrorist attack, the only people to blame are those on the left, who have continually highlighted the use of Shannon, have publicised the fact that American planes are landing here, and have advertised Ireland as a legitimate target for the last four years. We are a small country, and the only reason that they are paying any attention to us, is because the left have been waving this in their face for so long.

Your reply is simply a dig at left wing parties. The reason for a possible (and maybe probable) attack on Ireland is due to Shannon being used a lilly pad for the US war of terror. Simple as.

The_Minister

gandalf wrote:

The Minister I doubt very much there will be a terrorist attack here, it wouldn't be high priority enough.

I'm aware of that, that's why I'm saying that if they bother to hit Ireland, it'll be because they have been repeatedly goaded by indymedia-types for so long. As you say, there is no real reason for them to hit us.

gandalf

Well the simple answer is the Indymedia types are not the ones forcing the US troops through Shannon Airport, thats the Irish Government. Couple that with the fact that the EU has found that Shannon was used for rendition flights then if we are attacked the Irish Government by their inability to defend our neutrality or to search planes would be the ones that painted the big target on our asses.

Diogenes

The_Minister wrote:

I'm aware of that, that's why I'm saying that if they bother to hit Ireland, it'll be because they have been repeatedly goaded by indymedia-types for so long. As you say, there is no real reason for them to hit us.

Gosh thats logic of "Well if she didn't talk so much I wouldn't have to hit her". "Indymedia" types arent bringing the planes and the troops through, and have a moral objection to it being done so. Saying that the best course of action is "sssshhhhh don't tell Al Qaeda, we're going to go for the Hiberia ruse, it worked well when the Romans were around", is moral cowardice. If you agree with troops flights don't demand that other people keep stum about it.

The Corinthian

Why are people of the opinion that we’ve suddenly chosen to act differently from the past? Ireland is not and never has been neutral. We were happy to play both sides in World War II, we were happy to play both sides during the Cold War and call it neutrality and we’re now happy to play both sides in the Islam versus the West game and call it neutrality.

What we’re doing now is consistent with a policy of non-belligerent, non-commitment that has been in place since the formation of the State. Refuse to declare for either side openly, but keep both sweet at the same time by offering assistance or sympathy.

The only difference is that no one is swallowing the neutrality line now.

marco murphy

The current government are a threat to our own country. You can't be neutral and not be neutral.

The Corinthian

Poblachtach wrote:

You can't be neutral and not be neutral.

Thank you for that blinding insight Messr. de la Palice.

InFront

The Corinthian wrote:

Islam versus the West.

Originally posted by The Corinthian
Thank you for that blinding insight Messr. de la Palice.

.

Poblachtach

Poblachtach wrote:

The current government are a threat to our own country. You can't be neutral and not be neutral.

So you reckon that Sinn Fein would do a better job?

Sand

So you reckon that Sinn Fein would do a better job?

Fight fire with fire. I'm sure SF have a few terrorism experts on staff.

marco murphy

Sand wrote:

Fight fire with fire. I'm sure SF have a few terrorism experts on staff.

Sure?

Yes Dazzeler (or whatever) they would indeed do a better job.

eamon234

mike65 wrote:

It seems the defacto 'real' Lebonese government has decided that Ireland is a running dog of the infidel Amercian Satan

Well we did build the place!

Deliverance

Ireland stands as a neutral country and is respected as such, our country provides troops to the peacekeeping core. And these troops are part of the rapid response units in various UN protected countries.

In fact according to a commisioned photographer 'Simon Norfolk' who is assigned to the core who's lecture I attended last year. 'the Irish contingent' are viewed as a rapid response unit who are fierce and determined and in fact feared and respected for their vehemence in combat.

The whole world including the so called 'Hezballah' respect the Irish view, I suspect the Irish History plays a part.

The whole shannon thing is incidental the yanks have been using shannon as a stop of since the cold war. It makes no odds to anyone at this stage.

The fact that it is being used to transport political prisoners is an issue beyond the use itself, like I said it is incidental. this does not qualify shannon or indeed the Irish as a target for terrorism especially since idealistically Ireland has a history of opression and terrorism which the hezbollah identify with idealistically.
These guys (Hezbullah) are first and foremost political terrorists and are interested in manipulating political change to the extreme. Lets look at the facts and the results.
1. Bomb the world trade center. lets get the Americans to depose the leader of our country ie: Saddam, now lets sit back and take over when the time is right (this is yet to come).

2.Spain are really vulnerable politically lets bomb them to change their government the one in place supports the Iraq war and the opposition is against it. result success. Spain pulls out of Iraq war and a new government is in place.

If Hezbullah really had an interest in Ireland which is laughable then it would have happened by now. I think that they have achieved the aims they wanted so far with the help of the US and Britain.
Oh and an afterthought... Sinn Fein I really do not know what they are about since they stopped bombing civilians indescrimately for attention. Now that they have the attention I'm not sure that they know what to do with it.

InFront

Deliverance wrote:

Ireland stands as a neutral country and is respected as such... 'the Irish contingent' are viewed as a rapid response unit who are fierce and determined and in fact feared and respected for their vehemence in combat.

The whole world including the so called 'Hezballah' respect the Irish view

I'm not really sure about that bit.
http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20060717-084229-3601r.htm

Akrasia

All of this discussion is all nice and subjective, but if it was possible to take an objective stance on the issue, the, by the standards used by the U.S. or israeli army to choose what targets they themselves deem to be legitimate, then Shannon would easily qualify as a legal legitimate and strikeble target.

The only reason it won't be attacked is because it is not a high priority target, and despite all the 'end of the world rhetoric', International terrorism is a very weak military threat.

The Corinthian

Deliverance wrote:

Ireland stands as a neutral country and is respected as such, our country provides troops to the peacekeeping core

However if such threats as the subject of this thread are true then it would appear evident that Ireland is not respected as neutral.

Indeed, I don't think the Irish government can even legally use the term anymore in relation to Shannon after the Horgan case, which ruled that Ireland was in clear breach of the 1907 Hague Convention on neutrality.

Of course that's not to say Ireland was all that neutral before - just better at playing both sides off each other.

mike65

I should say that the Hezza threat was'nt to bomb Dublin or something, 'only' attack Irish troops which is quite bad enough.

These guys (Hezbullah) are first and foremost political terrorists and are interested in manipulating political change to the extreme. Lets look at the facts and the results.
1. Bomb the world trade center. lets get the Americans to depose the leader of our country ie: Saddam, now lets sit back and take over when the time is right (this is yet to come).

Deliverance, I don't recall Hezbollah being the architects of Sept 11.

Mike.

Dontico

Deliverance wrote:

1. Bomb the world trade center. lets get the Americans to depose the leader of our country ie: Saddam, now lets sit back and take over when the time is right (this is yet to come).

somtimes i'm rather against the idea of freedom of speech.

do i really need to point out how stupid that is?

The Corinthian

Deliverance wrote:

1. Bomb the world trade center. lets get the Americans to depose the leader of our country ie: Saddam, now lets sit back and take over when the time is right (this is yet to come).

Other than the fact that Hezbullah had nothing to do with 9/11, you're now saying that their "country" was Iraq?

Victor

Iran. Iraq. The only difference is the spelling. Better warn the IRA.

marco murphy

Iran? Iraq? Ironic.

Ill be a c-unt and say it was bush who bombed the world trade centre

oscarBravo

Not on this forum, you won't. Try Conspiracy Theories.

marco murphy

Has Hezbollah actually made a statement about targetting Irish troops?

InFront

UNIFIL maybe, I doubt if they singled out Ireland or Irish troops.

It's like the Omar Bakri Mohammed case where some journalist asked him if Shannon airport (though I think he said Dublin) was a legitimate target and he answered to the effect of 'any friend of our enemy is our enemy' or something like that.

The media were nearly falling over themselves with self importance. The guy clearly didn't know where the airport even was.

Archytas

The media were nearly falling over themselves with self importance. The guy clearly didn't know where the airport even was.

This quote (well said InFront) is exactly what I've been saying for years. Everytime there's an "event" somewhere - Its all headlines like "Heuston station is the next target..." or crap like that from the rag newspapers in Ireland. All this talk of Ireland being a target is really laughable... No-one cares who we are or what we think about them. And until a time when this changes the good people who work in or around Shannon airport can rest easy knowing their jobs are secure. Because in all fairness we need to look after the people at home before we go about trying to solve the worlds problems.

Zambia

Hezbollah i am sure have far more important things to do than worry about Shannon I am sure even Al-Queda have bigger fish to fry. The only people who are any real threat to Shannon is hippy types with spanners who interfere with aircarft parked there.

If worse came to worst and Ireland suffered a July 7th style attack , what would the reaction of the irish voter be to "Do a Spain" or react the opposite. I would have voted to let them launch full on bombing missons if such an event took place.

I am sure flight into Shannon contradict irish Neutrality. Then again Irelands Neutrality has always stuck me as simple Naivity, but thats another topic.

Gurgle

Zambia232 wrote:

I am sure flight into Shannon contradict irish Neutrality. Then again Irelands Neutrality has always stuck me as simple Naivity, but thats another topic.

I wonder if our glorious leaders would allow North Korea to use Shannon as a stopover to put an army in Cuba.

The crusades in the middle east are a difficult basis to judge as the enemy there are conveniently piss-poor and don't have any way of hitting back at the invaders.

As for this bollox about Hezbollah, heard it before and don't believe a word of it. They're probably vaguely aware that there are 2 big islands just off the northwest of the european mainland, and that a fair number of the foreign soldiers they see come from somewhere around here.

Neutral or otherwise, we're a part of the first world white christian west.

Next time Germany and France go to war we can judge our neutrality in a meaningful way.

Zambia

Gurgle wrote:

As for this bollox about Hezbollah, heard it before and don't believe a word of it. They're probably vaguely aware that there are 2 big islands just off the northwest of the european mainland, and that a fair number of the foreign soldiers they see come from somewhere around here.

I agree if Ireland was extremly unlucky they may possibly send evil looks in Irelands Direction due to a lack of History and some Action taken by the Royal Irish Regiment in Afganistan.

Gonzo_Reporter

I remember another person giving the same speech only a short while ago "Your either with us or against us". And they're meant to be the good guys.

Dontico

Gurgle wrote:

Next time Germany and France go to war we can judge our neutrality in a meaningful way.

if anyone invades an EU country, ireland is allowed to support the defending country. infact we are suppose to.

Judt

Terrorists will attack us for one reason: We're an opportune target. To Islamic terrorists we're a target because we let women drive cars... We're "Western". If I'm a British-born and bred terrorist and business is slow in Britain due to the security measures in place, what's to stop me from keeping an eye on Ireland and taking the ferry over when the election swings around to blow up a commuter train? If Spain is anything to go by then I'll have a chance to be putting the likes of Sinn Fein into power, at which point Britain, Ireland, the US and wider Europe have a big internal problem on their hands.

The aim of the Islamic terrorist is to terrorize and destabalise the west. It wouldn't matter if we were allowing troops through Shannon or not; they attack soft targets anywhere they can find them. They know that terrorizing Ireland has a knock-on effect in the west. Perhaps we might run scared, or we might lash out and send troops to Afghanistan or Iraq, for example, at which point it's a domino effect.

Never sit here and pretend that if we kept every US soldier out of Ireland we wouldn't be a target. Next it'd be "American tourists find Ireland a popular tourism destination, therefore we will attack the Americans in Ireland." Cop on. These people don't care about reason.

Zambia

Judt wrote:

Perhaps we might run scared, or we might lash out and send troops to Afghanistan or Iraq, for example, at which point it's a domino effect.

Oh like we have never been bombed before ...:rolleyes:

By your rational there is sweet FA anyone in Ireland can do about it. So best we carry on regardless...

marco murphy

JUDT:

It wouldn't matter if we were allowing troops through Shannon or not; they attack soft targets anywhere they can find them.

I beg to differ. Why are'nt they attacking Nike sweatshops in asia?
Why are'nt they targetting Dubai or more effectively Saudi Arabia (They are but why not on a bigger scale)?
They would'nt attack Ireland for no reason.

Judt

Zambia232 wrote:

Oh like we have never been bombed before ...:rolleyes:

By your rational there is sweet FA anyone in Ireland can do about it. So best we carry on regardless...

Err, no. What I'm saying is that you invest in security apparatus rather than burying your head in the sand and leaving your arse sticking out for passerby's to kick. As it is anytime we have a scare it's the Royal Air Force which has to cover us. Royal as in belonging to the evil crown so many Irishmen spilled their blood to get out of Ireland. But ohh well, it's more cost effective down here in the sand...

I beg to differ. Why are'nt they attacking Nike sweatshops in asia?

Islamic militants are extremely active in SE Asia. So too are government security forces. Just because a bush war doesn't make it into the 9 O'Clock news unless some tourists get involved doesn't mean it isn't happening. Terrorism takes on different forms in different parts of the world - in parts of Asia it's more of a guerrilla war than bombs on a train. All depends on the situation.

Why are'nt they targetting Dubai or more effectively Saudi Arabia (They are but why not on a bigger scale)?

They are, but again their security forces are keeping the screws on. You may not have caught the 2-minute segments on the occasional running gun battles Saudi security forces have with Islamic militants. But I think there's a good movie coming up about that, so maybe the population will be better educated then...

They would'nt attack Ireland for no reason.

Think like an Islamic militent and you might cook up a few reasons. Remember, as Britain learned, many of these terrorists are home grown in the neighborhood. They're not all flying in from Saudi Arabia; a boy brought up in the UK is far more likely to pay attention to the Irish political and security situation, put two and two together and pull a Madrid on us.

Manic Moran

The Corinthian wrote:

Indeed, I don't think the Irish government can even legally use the term anymore in relation to Shannon after the Horgan case, which ruled that Ireland was in clear breach of the 1907 Hague Convention on neutrality.

http://www.gluaiseacht.net/projects/legal/courtreports/HorganvIreland/judgements/main/

Perhaps I'm going blind, but where does it say that in the judgement?

Gurgle wrote:

I wonder if our glorious leaders would allow North Korea to use Shannon as a stopover to put an army in Cuba.

Don't see why not. Nobody much complained that I'm aware of when US Air Force airplanes transporting troops to Germany to face off the Soviets were sharing the same tarmac in Shannon as Soviet aircraft transporting troops to Cuba to stare down the Americans.

As for the original topic, it does seem to be an example of 'we can claim to be neutral all we want, but if the belligerants don't recognise your neutrality, it doesn't help much.' This on the simple concept of 'either friend or enemy', as that doesn't allow an 'on-the-fence' option.

NTM

marco murphy

Err, no. What I'm saying is that you invest in security apparatus

No amount of security aparatus can defend against a handful of determined, Islamic fundamentalists.
Would'nt it be easier to just stick to neutrality. Our hospitals are a shame, spend money on that, not protecting Bushs war of terror.

Islamic militants are extremely active in SE Asia. So too are government security forces. Just because a bush war doesn't make it into the 9 O'Clock news unless some tourists get involved doesn't mean it isn't happening. Terrorism takes on different forms in different parts of the world - in parts of Asia it's more of a guerrilla war than bombs on a train. All depends on the situation.

Perhaps you missed my point. Read back.

Think like an Islamic militent and you might cook up a few reasons. Remember, as Britain learned, many of these terrorists are home grown in the neighborhood. They're not all flying in from Saudi Arabia; a boy brought up in the UK is far more likely to pay attention to the Irish political and security situation, put two and two together and pull a Madrid on us.

NOT for no reason.

Judt

No amount of security aparatus can defend against a handful of determined, Islamic fundamentalists.

Unfortunately you're right. But the security apparatus makes the difference between one attack in a blue moon and a sustained campaign.

Would'nt it be easier to just stick to neutrality. Our hospitals are a shame, spend money on that, not protecting Bushs war of terror.

You mean, protect ourselves? As a neutral nation we are obliged under the Geneva Convention, and others to boot, to be capable of defending our neutrality, given that a neutral nation can still be used as a staging point for an attack on another one - Ala Belgium or the Netherlands, for example. The Swiss take their neutrality quite seriously. They have a navy. Tell me what's odd about that and I'll give you my hat.

Now in the modern age of terrorism the threats are slightly different to the Sovs trying to grab Ireland to cut off the UK and Europe from the US. Terrorist acts can breach our neutrality, however, and affect the security of other nations. Therefore if we want to be neutral then we are obliged to be able to defend that neutrality.

"Let's just be neutral" does not say that we need invest no money into security. I'm not talking about regiments of tanks - I'm talking about police intelligence, disaster contingency planning and so forth. We have very, very little of that.

Ireland needs to have security apparatus, whether we have American troops in Shannon or not.

NOT for no reason.

Don't you get it? The fact that we're a western democracy is enough reason for them to attack us. They can think of any excuse. The most obvious one is that we have a lot of American tourists and company's working out of Ireland. Should we expel them all? When do we stop bending over backwards to please our new fascist masters?

Victor

The way I heard the interview, Hezbollah were saying that if UNIFIL didn't stop an Israeli attack into Lebanon, but did stop Hebollah, then UNIFIL was siding with Israel.

Manic Moran wrote:

Don't see why not. Nobody much complained that I'm aware of when US Air Force airplanes transporting troops to Germany to face off the Soviets were sharing the same tarmac in Shannon as Soviet aircraft transporting troops to Cuba to stare down the Americans.

Surely there is a difference between leaving military aircraft pass through and leaving military aircraft pass through on their way to war. But why are we discussing Shannon? I thought this thread was about Hezbollah.

marco murphy

Can you quote the Geneva convention exactly. Sounds like a rule from cloud cuckoo land.

Don't you get it? The fact that we're a western democracy is enough reason for them to attack us. They can think of any excuse. The most obvious one is that we have a lot of American tourists and company's working out of Ireland. Should we expel them all? When do we stop bending over backwards to please our new fascist masters?

My god.
Give one example of a country being suicide bombed that HAD no involvement in the the American war of terror.

Manic Moran

Poblachtach wrote:

My god.
Give one example of a country being suicide bombed that HAD no involvement in the the American war of terror.

Indonesia and Jordan are two that come to mind. I don't believe either is particularly involved in either Iraq or Afghanistan right now (Or were at the times of the bombings). I'm not entirely sure offhand if the Egyptian resort bombings were anti-Israeli or Anti-something-else.

NTM