Unfair Golf Handicap - Any recourse

Derek Zoolander

Hi Guys,

Recently joined a club and handed in 3 cards last week...

22 over, 18 over and 12 over....rang up today and was told that my handicap was 10....

needless to say I was less than impressed and insisted that the handicap comittee ring me to discuss as soon as possible, however I'm wondering if there is any official objection I can lodge...can I go to the GUI etc....do I have any other options...

GreenHorn

Same kinds thing happened me, I handed in three genuine, honest cards averaging 18.5 over and was given 14. Most I've scored off it is 35stapleford points.

If you play comps regularly you get shots back as far as i know buit i rarely get a chance to play the comps. Still, I reckon with a bit of practice and some more regular play i could play to ti so I don't necessarily want it to go up. I've had 19points on a nine a few times but can't put two good nines together.

Still, 10 in your case is obviously way too harsh assuming your cards were genuine and ya weren't given it the oul "oh deary me, I've three-putted from 4feet again {snigger snigger}!" while playign fro the handicap

Derek Zoolander

it would take me an eternity to get to a realistic value considering that you can only go up 0.1 of a point per comp...

it really annoys me that I'm paying the price for bandits handing in dodgy scorecards...

I handed in 3 honest scorecards...one of them was pretty much the best I've ever played and I'm getting two shots less than that....

Theres bugger all chance of me playing to ten on a regular basis and I'm pretty annoyed at myself for handing it in now...i should have just done what everyone else does and hand in 3 dud rounds :mad:

rick_fantastic

i put in three honest cards when getting my handicap back 18months ago. cards in at 13 over, 11 over and 10 over. got handicap of 17.5 which is pretty much standard start.

game fell to crap for a while and went up to 18.6 so im now playing off 19. gift for the winter as handicaps dont go down during winter league.

im playing to much much better than that handicap but they cant cut me!

hoping to drop at least a few shots during summer and be down to 14

stringy

Seems very odd. Some clubs, limit new male members to either 14 or 18 even if they handed in cards with scores much greater, e..g +22, +17, +19

See stuff below from CONGU website, maybe you had some disastrous holes that skewed your scoring, but on the most part you seemed a capable golfer.

What are the requirements for getting a CONGU® Handicap ?

Having satisfied the requirements for membership of a Club, CONGU® requires that to get a handicap a player must submit cards from at least three rounds, marked by a person approved by the Club. The rounds must be played at that Club over 18 holes of, preferably, a measured course. The Club will then adjust the returned scores, so that a lady never records more than 3 over par and a man never more than 2 over par on any individual hole. The cards are then assessed and the club allocates a CONGU® handicap based on the amount the lowest score returned exceeds the Standard Scratch Score of the course played (after taking into account other factors it considers relevant).

When the club considers it appropriate to the player’s ability, a lower CONGU® handicap than that indicated by the scores may be allocated; particularly where the player has previously held an approved handicap. In exceptional circumstances a club may allocate a higher handicap than indicated by the scores returned. Once the Club has allocated a CONGU® handicap to a player, it becomes the player’s Home Club for handicap purposes and it is responsible for administering and maintaining that CONGU® Handicap fully in accordance with the requirements of the System.

Although not specifically required by the System the Club may require the player to demonstrate a knowledge of the Rules of Golf and the etiquette of the game before allocating a handicap.

Derek Zoolander

rick how the hell did you get 17.5 after handing in cards that were all under that handicap....

does anyone know if I can appeal this to the GUI???

copacetic

doesn't sound that odd to me, you put in a card at 12 over, and you got 10 as a handicap. sounds about right. the most they could have given you is 12.

I know it seems unfair when there are bandits out there but there are plenty of people out there with proper handicaps. Its supposed to be based on your potential best score not on your average as noted in the text above..

copacetic

rick_fantastic wrote:

i put in three honest cards when getting my handicap back 18months ago. cards in at 13 over, 11 over and 10 over. got handicap of 17.5 which is pretty much standard start.

game fell to crap for a while and went up to 18.6 so im now playing off 19. gift for the winter as handicaps dont go down during winter league.

im playing to much much better than that handicap but they cant cut me!

hoping to drop at least a few shots during summer and be down to 14

now that is dodgy, you should have been given 10 or less all things being equal. what is the SSS at your course?

PhilipMarlowe

Yeah it's real 'fun' having a realistic handicap and playing in a competition against people who can play "much better than" their handicap...

To the OP, as others have said, anything worse than a double bogey is reduced down to an assumed double bogey and your lowest (assumed) score should then be your handicap.
Eg: you par the first 17 holes and then go in the water a few times on 18 and run up a 12... 8 handicapper? I don't think so.... lucky to get your 2 handicap.
Also, it's reasonable (i think) to assume than a golfer will improve from their initial handicap.
You may in your case have room to plead your case as you have a big varience between your scores (imo) and as you say you believe you will struggle off 10 which is no fun either..... worth a chat with the handicap secretary anyway.
Rick_fantastic with 13, 11 & 10 over getting 17.5 is a pure joke...
41, 43 and 44 points???

badbrian

Without the knowledge that the 12 over par was the best round of your life I would have thought that the handicap of 10 wasn't unfair. You play 3 rounds and improve by 10 shots between round 1 and 3!! Obviously very talented.

I was given a handicap of 18 to start after 3 100+ cards. Now that was unrealistic. It was a couple of years before I was able to shoot close to my handicap and I was out to 21 before I won a prize.

But remember golf is just great. Not much of a winter player so can't wait to dust off those clubs come the end of March!!

rick_fantastic

its wrong but at the moment my consistency is so bad it doesnt really matter. ill be back down by the end of the summer

hit 18 good drives at the weekend, short game and putting cost me at least 10 shots. shot 91 so playing to handicap.

PhilipMarlowe

Can't you see there's something wrong when you get 35 or 36 points while leaving 10 shots on the couse????
36 points or nett level par is supposed to be a good round of golf.... you should get a warm fuzzy feeling inside from it...
40 or 41 is one you should be telling your grandchildren about... imo

rick_fantastic

well there is very little i can do about it now (no handicap cuts). aim to be down to 14 quickly once summer season starts

copacetic

rick_fantastic wrote:

well there is very little i can do about it now (no handicap cuts). aim to be down to 14 quickly once summer season starts

in fairness I don't blame you it's your club that made the mistake. although you could ask for a cut for general play, you don't have to wait to do well in comps..

Derek Zoolander

Still haven't heard from the handicap committee as yet, I realise that they could give me no more than 12 however my query is why drop it another two strokes when my other 2 cards where 18 over and 22 over....only triple boged two holes on the 12 over card so maybe thats where they got the 2 shots from...

I'm no newcomer to golf and play all the time but decided to finally get a official handicap and play in some opens etc....

in fairness to whoever said it should be an achievement to play to 36 points...for me it will be some achievement consider the courses I normally play are a lot tougher than the home track...

At least I can say when my handicap goes back up that I was once almost a single figure golfer

PhilipMarlowe

Derek Zoolander wrote:

....only triple boged two holes on the 12 over card so maybe thats where they got the 2 shots from...

At least I can say when my handicap goes back up that I was once almost a single figure golfer

Don't think like that..... think 'one good round early in the spring and I will be a single figure golfer'

When you think about the above, you were 6 over for 16 holes so not unreasonable to assume you have a sub 80 round in you (depending on the par of your course). Nothing like having acheivable targets to play for...

copacetic

Derek Zoolander wrote:

Still haven't heard from the handicap committee as yet, I realise that they could give me no more than 12 however my query is why drop it another two strokes when my other 2 cards where 18 over and 22 over....only triple boged two holes on the 12 over card so maybe thats where they got the 2 shots from...

I'm no newcomer to golf and play all the time but decided to finally get a official handicap and play in some opens etc....

in fairness to whoever said it should be an achievement to play to 36 points...for me it will be some achievement consider the courses I normally play are a lot tougher than the home track...

At least I can say when my handicap goes back up that I was once almost a single figure golfer

well that makes sense then, they ignore that 3rd shot on both those holes by rule. So that score was 10 over as far as handicapping is concerned..

MisterAnarchy

To get a handicap of 10 after handing in 3 cards in ludicrous.
In most courses you generally receive a handicap of 18 no matter how good or bad your initial 3 cards are and then you work from there.
If you subsequently play well you will be cut and your handicap will come down.
Getting a handicap of 10 after 3 rounds averaging 17 over is wrong.
If that was the case a beginner could pick the 3 best rounds he ever played and get a really low handicap.
You have to work hard to get your handicap down ,starting off 10 is nonsense and there is something seriously wrong.

copacetic

MisterAnarchy wrote:

To get a handicap of 10 after handing in 3 cards in ludicrous.
In most courses you generally receive a handicap of 18 no matter how good or bad your initial 3 cards are and then you work from there.
If you subsequently play well you will be cut and your handicap will come down.
Getting a handicap of 10 after 3 rounds averaging 17 over is wrong.
If that was the case a beginner could pick the 3 best rounds he ever played and get a really low handicap.
You have to work hard to get your handicap down ,starting off 10 is nonsense and there is something seriously wrong.

thats wrong. read the rules on handicapping someone has helpfully posted above. average of 3 cards has nothing to do with it.

You don't automatically get a handicap of 18 at most courses and certainly not at any course who do handicapping correctly. It may be the maxiumum a lot of courses allow but thats it.

It's a simple system, take 3 cards, take the best score of the 3, ignore any shots over a double bogey, take the total and take the SSS for the course away from it. Thats your handicap. It can be adjusted up or down to allow for conditions etc but thats how it works.

MisterAnarchy

daveym wrote:

thats wrong. read the rules on handicapping someone has helpfully posted above. average of 3 cards has nothing to do with it.

You don't automatically get a handicap of 18 at most courses and certainly not at any course who do handicapping correctly. It may be the maxiumum a lot of courses allow but thats it.

It's a simple system, take 3 cards, take the best score of the 3, ignore any shots over a double bogey, take the total and take the SSS for the course away from it. Thats your handicap. It can be adjusted up or down to allow for conditions etc but thats how it works.

So if I shot 50 over, 45 over and 2 over you are telling me my handicap would be -2 ?
In that case I should have waited until the day I broke par for the first time and handed in my card and I'd be a scratch golfer eh ,instead of working my way down from 18 to 5.
I have shot sub par numerous times yet all I needed was one sub par round and I'd have been a scratch golfer.
Or better still I could have played some crappy easy course like one I played last summer where i shot 6 under,then i'd be a plus 6 handicapper almost the same as Tiger Woods.
Wahahaha.
Gee I could have saved myself alot of time and effort.
That seems wrong,all wrong.

daveym wrote:

Its supposed to be based on your potential best score not on your average

Never knew that until now,its correct though.
Guess I shouldnt have been so hard on myself the last few years when I was struggling to play to my handicap .
Hard to measure ones potential though.
If I hit every shot to the best of my ability,or even 80% , I'd shoot well under par but that isnt my handicap .
I usually have a run of a few bad holes in a round that uses up most of my strokes .
Hard to gauge I guess.

milltown

I'm not sure any club will expect to handicap you perfectly first time out. I think they give you something to play towards and expect your results over the following year or two to adjust your handicap nearer to your natural level.

When I joined Elm Green last year I handed in three cards when I was playing as well as I have played yet, all 105 - 110, and got a 22 handicap. I can't get out to play competitions so I'm stuck with a handicap that I have yet to score more than 30 points off. I've decided not to join a club this year so I'll spend this year trying to play to or beat my handicap.

copacetic

MisterAnarchy wrote:

So if I shot 50 over, 45 over and 2 over you are telling me my handicap would be -2 ?
In that case I should have waited until the day I broke par for the first time and handed in my card and I'd be a scratch golfer eh ,instead of working my way down from 18 to 5.
I have shot sub par numerous times yet all I needed was one sub par round and I'd have been a scratch golfer.
Or better still I could have played some crappy easy course like one I played last summer where i shot 6 under,then i'd be a plus 6 handicapper almost the same as Tiger Woods.
Wahahaha.
Gee I could have saved myself alot of time and effort.
That seems wrong,all wrong.

I think the idea is to assume people are better than they are rather than worse at least initially. Like you say you would end up with 2 all things being equal if the above happened, but it seems unlikely.

The crappy course were you got 6 under wouldn't get you minus 6 though. If it was bad then I assume the standard scratch score is very low, eg 66 on a 72 par? They SSS is used to even out the standard from course to course. It being the score that a scratch golfer would be expected to score around the course.

The GUI site has the SSS for all GUI courses online I think.

eg if I remember St. Mags is par 73, SSS 73 from back tees, while elmgreen par is 71, SSS is 68 from back tees (66 from medal tees)

I think if everyone was honest and followed the above it would work well, but of course we all know plenty of people who have random handicaps which ruin it for everyone else/

nigey

I dont know how some clubs work out the handy cap u didnt even shot 10 over or under so how can you be given a 10, :cool: if you do play to 11 or 12 it is fine but not of your shootint from 22 to 12 spaek to the handy cap comittee

FlutterinBantam

Jebus Christ on a stick

OP ..just go out and enjoy the game

killbillvol2

OP, if you had the right attitude to golf you'd be delighted to get a low handicap. Given the card you returned at 12 over with two triple bogeys the Handicap Secretary was correct in allocating a handicap of 10.

And as a former Handicap Secretary if someone "insisted" that I ring him as soon as possible to discuss something that's perfectly obvious...let's just say you'd be waiting.

As for rick_fantastic. Golf clubs can be suspended from the GUI for that sort of handicapping.

Derek Zoolander

I have a good attitude to golf and want to improve my game immensely the problem is that I would like a handicap that I have a chance of playing to. I went around in 12 over on an easy course(best ever) and I'd be delighted if I could play to that on a regular basis but the fact is I can't...I'm determined to be able to play to 10 by the end of the year however for the purpose of competitions this year I know already that I won't come close to placing in any of the ones I play

GreeBo

Derek Zoolander wrote:

I have a good attitude to golf and want to improve my game immensely the problem is that I would like a handicap that I have a chance of playing to. I went around in 12 over on an easy course(best ever) and I'd be delighted if I could play to that on a regular basis but the fact is I can't..

You arent supposed to be able to play to your handicap on a regular basis.
Thats why there is a buffer zone, if you are able to play to your handicap with relative ease then your handicap is too high.

As was said before, its supposed to be tough to play to your handicap, you need to play well to play to it, not leave 10+ shots out there and come in 2 over.

OP you shot a +10 adjusted score, so thats what you shoot when you play well, so play well and play to it.
Its stupid to play badly and still have 36 points.

People winning with 43 points and the like is crazy, all it means is that they didnt take a few crazy shots that day like they normally would and so they didnt add on the extra 10 pathetic shots that normally happen.

I play off 12 and its far too high for me, I leave lots of shots out on the course most rounds and play to about 14.
Anytime I play reasonably well I am going to shoot 40 points, and thats wrong.
Most of my shots are of <10 quality, but I have a few that are sometimes >18 that cost me. My handicap shouldnt take these ****ty shots into account.

mcaul

The handicap system was explained to me after getting a 14 hcap and haveing a 21 society hcap.

Basically they study your three cards, any score 3 over par is disregarded and assumed to be a double bogey. (an 8 on a par 4 is regarded as a 6 cos you obviously flunked 2 of the shots) If on one card you had 3 pars on hole 1, 5 & 15 and another card you had pars on 3, 8 & 15 and the third card you had par on 1, 7 & 14, then they would see that your potential is there and as such a lower handicap is called for even if all three cards were grossing 100.

boysie39

When I started to play golf in 1971 my first H/C was12 the next year Iwent to 13.every hour I could find was spent on the golf course.I won very few prizes at the time my goal was to beat standered scratch and get my H/C down.When I was 10 I cut myself a shot so I could play in a GUI competion for which you had to be off 9.That was in 1975 and I got down to 5 Iwon a few prizesalong the way.From 1975 until I had to give up for health reasons in 2004 I played off single figures.I managed to win a few Open scratch cups and a couple of Presidents prizes along the way.Not as many prizes as a lot of golfers who were 8to10 shots better than me when they wanted to and played off 10/14 HCs.However I have some lovely prizes around the house and I can look at them and think how well I played and how hard I practised to get them and look people in the eye.Golf is a great game,most of the people who play it are too "but there's always one" Advise enjoy the game and the people you meet play your best if it's not goodenough practice more,if your happy with your game you will be the first
P.S I havent played since '03 and my H/C is 9.8 Smell the flowers

kincsem

The idea of handicaps is to give everyone an equal chance, not for some people to have shots in hand that they can use to bag any prize they choose.
I don't play now, but when I handed in my first three cards years ago, they gave me 22. I felt I was better than that, so in our Saturday friendly fourball I kept a card, and shot a 65 net. I got that signed, handed it in, and was cut seven shots to 15. Fair enough. I was happier being properly handicapped. It was another six months before I was consistent enought to get near the prizes. I wasn't in it for the prizes. I was in it to enjoy the competition, and getting into contention if I could.

Derek Zoolander

upon further reflection I feel maybe that the problem isn't with my handicap but with the handicap of the lads I play with...after I got the handicap I played one outstanding round where I holed everything and had 36 points:) ....since then however I toiled to score anything near the 30 mark...mostly between 26 and 30..while playing pretty well and only making a few mistakes per round...my mates are off between 16 and 19 and to win the cash in our games one would need to be hitting at least 34 points as they all can hit 36 on a regular basis....anyway i'm off to the range for some more practice...and if this episode has thought me one thing its that you simply have to get up and down from anywhere around the green to score well....

GreeBo

Derek Zoolander wrote:

upon further reflection I feel maybe that the problem isn't with my handicap but with the handicap of the lads I play with...after I got the handicap I played one outstanding round where I holed everything and had 36 points:) ....since then however I toiled to score anything near the 30 mark...mostly between 26 and 30..while playing pretty well and only making a few mistakes per round...my mates are off between 16 and 19 and to win the cash in our games one would need to be hitting at least 34 points as they all can hit 36 on a regular basis....anyway i'm off to the range for some more practice...and if this episode has thought me one thing its that you simply have to get up and down from anywhere around the green to score well....

Now youve got it. (not meant to be condescending!)
There are too many bandits with handicaps that they play to easily.
Last year a guy won our September medal with a 52 nett off 21 Par 68/CSS 69.
I have no problem with somone playing really well and being 4 or 5 under but playing 16 shots under your handicap is a joke.

All you have to do is look in the papers on a Sunday and see how many comps are won with 42+ points.

brav

Hi Lads,

I've just taken up golf and handed in my 3 scorecards last week.

Just wondering what handicap roughly do u think ill get?
3 cards: 127, 119, 118

So my best was 118 which i think is 46 over(Wow! I am bad) so will I get 18 or do you think they might make an exception and give me 22 or something.
When I got the 118 I hit 2 pars(on par 3's) but on all the rest of the holes I hit double bogeys and beyond!

They were my first 3 rounds of golf ever, and I dont think ill get to go out much(twice a month i'd say) so I'm not too worried about the handicap, just curious

EDIT:/ I never hear of SSS before, but just check the scorecard online and since i played off the green tees the ss for my course is 68! So i did even worse than I thought!

TheDoc

to OP

Youve jsut joined and got your handicapp, if its your first club youve joined then chill. First club golfers never get anything close to their potential.

Stick with what you have work on it and youll be down. Golf is about enjoying the game and playing well, i tend not to worry bout prizes and jsut get cut and my score down, if your into winning prizes every week, then your one of those handicapp bandits i dont like :P