Counting in Irish.

hullaballoo

Why is it that when counting in Irish, you add "a" to the number. The number for "one" is "aon", but when counting it's "a haon, a dó, a trí..."

Does anyone know why? It has me stumped.

generalmiaow

It's called the indirect relative particle. It's similar in its phonological operation to the Feminine possessive a. I think the reason that it's included is either/both because it is required by syntax because of the lack of a following noun, or by prosody; for example, saying "Pápa Seán Pól Dó" or "Uimhir Dó" violates the derived rules of prosody in Irish. Note that welsh does not have this so it's possibly not a genetic feature.

simu

But the "a" in "a haon" and so on is not functioning as an indirect relative particle - why call it that? Quibbling.

hullaballoo

generalmiaow wrote:

It's called the indirect relative particle. It's similar in its phonological operation to the Feminine possessive a. I think the reason that it's included is either/both because it is required by syntax because of the lack of a following noun, or by prosody; for example, saying "Pápa Seán Pól Dó" or "Uimhir Dó" violates the derived rules of prosody in Irish. Note that welsh does not have this so it's possibly not a genetic feature.

I'm glad I asked. Thanks, STO.

Simu, what is its function, then?

simu

hullaballoo wrote:

Simu, what is its function, then?

What Generalmiaow said sounds plausible - I'm just quibbling about what you'd actually call that "a". The dictionaries go for something along the lines of a numerical particle. Just don't think you could call it an indirect relative particle - that term refers to a different thing.

generalmiaow

simu wrote:

What Generalmiaow said sounds plausible - I'm just quibbling about what you'd actually call that "a". The dictionaries go for something along the lines of a numerical particle. Just don't think you could call it an indirect relative particle - that term refers to a different thing.

I know what you mean, in that indirect relative particle it is used to denote the particle that starts a new clause, but all my college grammar books are telling me that it's the indirect relative particle, even explicitly in this context.

I don't know why, since it doesn't start a new clause (as there's no new verb). You can have also "a" as a vocative particle, for example. I tend to agree with you; the only sense in which this is indirect is in terms of case. Perhaps its just laziness on the part of authors, as you say the dictionary says it's the numerical particle. There's also the possibility that some of these things are vestigial.