1st break down ever :(

Dr4gul4

epppppppppp,


So here we go folks, Bike was due her service, left her in, picked her up on sat morning, all's good, or so i though, ( bar the cost)

Any way, i had this weird problem before the service, where if i was in say 3rd gear, and slowed right down to a crawl in traffic, she would keep going, now say the traffic cleared and i want to accelerate, i open the throttle and usually she was blast off down the road, however, it started spluttering and coughing like mad, and some times it feels like the engine just tried to burn Air only, and the bike gives a huge jump.


Any way, i assumed. 1 good service would fix this. so i picked her up and she seems ok, not totally happy but i'd break her back in.
So went to the gym left her out side, coupla hours pass come out, go to start it, and things were not happy, it was spluttering and couching away like crazy, and it's only sitting there.

So checked the cylinder head and the back cylinder was not firing, so off i went to swop the sparkplugs around, sure enough that back sparkplug was wet at the top so i dried it off and popped it in the front cylinder.

Eventually got her going,after a few mins of blasting **** out of the cylinder.

Now got on her today, and she's still spluttering away.


back to the garage to morrow i go.


any 1 got any idea's what could be causing this ???

The Doktor

Trouble shoot a bit more.
1. are you getting a spark? yes? Fuel/air problem .. No Elecrtical problem.
By the sounds o things its electrical.
2. why are you not getting spark? you must be getting one in front cylinder so swap Plugs (see ya did that).. if still no.. swap HT Leads/plug caps.... and so on...

Elfish

Check air filter is clean (even though it should have been done in service).

Sounds as if problem is happening at low revs? Check idle jet hasn't come undone in carb - while you're there blow out jets / check for dirt clogging jets. Check float level etc...

I'm assuming problem is on bike you have advertised 250 dragstar? If not, if 2 stroke let us know.

Dr4gul4 wrote:

So checked the cylinder head and the back cylinder was not firing, so off i went to swop the sparkplugs around, sure enough that back sparkplug was wet at the top so i dried it off and popped it in the front cylinder.

Just wondering, wouldn't you have noticed that the back plug was wet before checking it for a spark. Unsure of what order you were doing things, but anyway, there is no point checking for a spark with a bad plug and then condemning electrics because you got no spark on a dirty/wet plug.....check for spark with good dry clean plug. Also, test by touching threaded part of plug against head and trying to start engine, you prob were doing this anyway but just counting it out as I have seen people test incorrectly and then wonder why they've even more problems than they started with - also use an insulated pliers.


Ride safe!

bushy...

Dr4gul4 wrote:

Any way, i had this weird problem before the service, where if i was in say 3rd gear, and slowed right down to a crawl in traffic, she would keep going, now say the traffic cleared and i want to accelerate, i open the throttle and usually she was blast off down the road, however, it started spluttering and coughing like mad, and some times it feels like the engine just tried to burn Air only, and the bike gives a huge jump.

If you mean it that before you could slow right down and then accelerate away no problem , and now if you try that it splutters and hesitates , it probably means they went "adjusting " the idle air mix.

If you mean that if you slowed right down and it wouldn't accelerate away fairly well , means muck in carbs , idle air mix wrong something around there ( or possible electrical trouble , hard to say from description)

Dr4gul4 wrote:

Any way, i assumed. 1 good service would fix this. so i picked her up and she seems ok, not totally happy but i'd break her back in.

Should be unnecessary/i can't see why it would need this , either they have it running right , or they should say it needs new parts/more work to make it run right .

Dr4gul4 wrote:

So went to the gym left her out side, coupla hours pass come out, go to start it, and things were not happy, it was spluttering and couching away like crazy, and it's only sitting there.

So checked the cylinder head and the back cylinder was not firing, so off i went to swop the sparkplugs around, sure enough that back sparkplug was wet at the top so i dried it off and popped it in the front cylinder.

Eventually got her going,after a few mins of blasting **** out of the cylinder.

Now got on her today, and she's still spluttering away.


back to the garage to morrow i go.


any 1 got any idea's what could be causing this ???

Some plugs are never the same again once they get " wet" . What bike is it/what type plug ?
Besides that there is something seriously amiss with it.

Dr4gul4

Whoa oddles of replies.

Ok i'll try and cover as much as possible.

On the nite, ( sat nite) here's what i did.

Back carb was not firing, took out plug, noticed it was wet, dried it off, Took out front plug, it was dry, swopped them around, bike started, however there was a lot of popping, and coughing for a few minutes, as i kept the revs high to try and clear the carbs.



now as for this recurring problem, it only happens on take off and only when in gear.

e.g


im taking off in 1st gear, on a round about, no traffic, ok lets go, up to 2nd we go, ohh some traffic comming, better give her a bit of juice.

and then we have the spluttering / coughing / im going to be hit by this car.



I dont really think either probs are electrical. im thinking there could be sum crap in 1 of the carbs.. it's hard to say tho

Elfish

Dr4gul4 wrote:

Back carb was not firing, took out plug, noticed it was wet, dried it off, Took out front plug, it was dry, swopped them around, bike started

When you say back carb was not firing, do you mean you took out plug and checked if it had a bright spark on turning engine over?

How did you determine the back carb was not firing (assume you mean plug?)

Dr4gul4 wrote:

now as for this recurring problem, it only happens on take off and only when in gear.

If you leave bike in neutral, and rev to redline, what happens? Does it go cleanly without flat spots to max revs?

Dr4gul4 wrote:

I dont really think either probs are electrical. im thinking there could be sum crap in 1 of the carbs.. it's hard to say tho

Check properly for spark outlined above. Then discount electrics (probably). Basics right first! Again, what condition is your air filter in?

Dr4gul4

Elfish wrote:

When you say back carb was not firing, do you mean you took out plug and checked if it had a bright spark on turning engine over?

How did you determine the back carb was not firing (assume you mean plug?)

K when i took out the back plug, it was not warm/glowing on the tip, also i knew it was the back one, as the cylinder head was stone cold, also so was the pipe.

Elfish wrote:

If you leave bike in neutral, and rev to redline, what happens? Does it go cleanly without flat spots to max revs?

If i do as u say, it's kicks **** out of the Exhaust some times, splutters a little, kind of like backfiring,not all the time now, ever say 35 - 40 seconds maybe?

Elfish wrote:

Check properly for spark outlined above. Then discount electrics (probably). Basics right first! Again, what condition is your air filter in?

I'm still pretty sure it's not the electrics it dosent really make a heck of a ot of sence, both cylinders are firing now, but it's like there is **** in one of them / both of them.

As for the filter, it just got changed , well so the invoice says.

i'm gonna take it back to the guys 2 morrow and see what they say any way.

Elfish

Dr4gul4 wrote:

K when i took out the back plug, it was not warm/glowing on the tip, also i knew it was the back one, as the cylinder head was stone cold, also so was the pipe.

ok it does sound as if you are down a cylinder. Check the spark on the plug by laying threaded portion of it on head and trying to start engine. It's most likely an electrical fault that is causing you to lose a cylinder. A working plug won't be glowing or warm though when you take it out ... best diagnosis by checking for spark.

Dr4gul4 wrote:

I'm still pretty sure it's not the electrics it dosent really make a heck of a ot of sence, both cylinders are firing now, but it's like there is **** in one of them / both of them.

Both cylinders firing? So both cylinders are hot? Definitely getting spark on both? This is crucial to find out for helping you locate fault.

Dr4gul4 wrote:

As for the filter, it just got changed , well so the invoice says.

Sure its the air filter that got changed? Usually its the oil ..... anyway, if you are only running on one cylinder some of the time, which is what it sounds like, then that's your starting point to find out whats wrong. If you are definite that you are only running on one cylinder some of the time, then it isn't your air filter. Never had a dragstar but I'd be guessing that the air filter doesn't need replacement - ie its a foam one that only needs to be cleaned. Anyway your problem is elsewhere.

I'd check the connections on coil (were they inadvertantly disturbed during servicing?), is your plug leads pushed firmly home? Plug caps not damaged or slightly unscrewed?

By the way, check the connector blocks going into CDI - is there any corrosion on them - your bike is probably too new for this, but worth a shot esp if bike is stored outside. If you find any hint of corrosion/green crystal stuff, check all other spade connectors and clean them - a good scratch with a small screwdriver on male end and a rub with a paper clip in the female side should sort this.

Let us know how you get on - always interested to hear problem solution.;)

bushy...

Now and again you might run across this : when you lay the plug on the head with the lead attached it will have a nice spark , but won't work properly once its in the cylinder since its harder for the spark to jump under the pressure of compression.
The quickest way to eliminate a few things is swap the coils over (if possible)
If the fault travels to the front cylinder , its the coil or cap
If the fault stays where it is , its the stuff driving the coil on that cylinder or carb or something else.

Elfish

bushy... wrote:

Now and again you might run across this : when you lay the plug on the head with the lead attached it will have a nice spark , but won't work properly once its in the cylinder since its harder for the spark to jump under the pressure of compression.

Spot on bushy, a real pain in the arse! This happened once to me, spark was not great (bit thin + white) on testing. Sparked ok for a few secs, then just out of frustration, turned over engine for longer (was using fully charged car battery, load tested etc. so nothing to do with battery) and the spark broke down after about 20 seconds. Put in a spare plug into where the one I was testing came out of (lead was still on plug being tested), to hold the engine compression, and again tested the removed plug against head. This time spark died after 7-8 secs. Might have been coincidence but anyway I surmised that in the cylinder itself, spark probably broke down almost immediately. Sounded like it wasn't getting close to catching, so guessed no spark when in situ.

Problem turned out to be bad CDI, but it was a very old bike. Unlikely to be problem here - bike close to new??

So back to Dr4gul4, is your spark good - ie fat and blue?

bushy... wrote:

The quickest way to eliminate a few things is swap the coils over (if possible)

Think he's only one coil with 2 spark feed on his bike. Not sure if you could just swap plug leads ie put front to back & back to front and see if problem moves cylinder?

Very unsure if this is ok - you might end up with spark at front when a piston is miles away from TDC and vica versa?? Anyone know? My hunch is that spark would occur at completely the wrong time/position of each piston in cycle ie it'd never work??

Interested to hear what a twin experienced person would think/know.......

Dr4gul4

sorry guys just gettin back to this now.

TBh i dropped her off this morning at 10am and have not heard any thing yet.

It's a total pain in the arse, but ohh well, i get the feeling it's a problem with the plug maybe, but it's really hard to know,it could be sum crap in the carbs.

either way i'll let u all know when i find out what the problem was .

Dr4gul4

right so, just off the fone to the garage.

havent had time to look @ it yet, They are going to strip the carbs and see whats going on in there, because i have the arfermarket pipes on they mentioned that they might have to rejet the carbs.


I get the feeling this is going to hurt my pocket

Elfish

Bumpy outcome?

Dr4gul4

none yet.

called twice this week.

1st time sobb story, were to buzy just to drop tools and do the work.

Ok i said just let me know asap.


rang to day. i have to be honest and say this guys atitude is really shocking. he basically told me to **** off " i said i'd call you when it was looked at didnt i "

my responce was this problem only started after the service, why has it not even been looked at yet, why have ye not even put in new plugs to see if it will start right.


Same responce, right i'll have the lads look at it to day, and update you later.


I have a pain in my face with this now

The Doktor

sounds like its time to go in there with ur best "disgruntled customer" face on...
where has it been left into? cos I wont be goin there.

Kinetic^

You need me to have "words" with the punk?

Dr4gul4

lol @ kenny ... u plank

the location will be revealed soon enough ladies and gents. they made quite a mistake fupping with my tricked out ride.

Kinetic^

You already know my thoughts on the place.........they're a bunch of douche bags!!!!

bushy...

Elfish wrote:

Very unsure if this is ok - you might end up with spark at front when a piston is miles away from TDC and vica versa?? Anyone know? My hunch is that spark would occur at completely the wrong time/position of each piston in cycle ie it'd never work??

Didn't follow this thread along after , what i meant was swap the coils over including the low-tension side .
QUICKLY test with an ohmmeter that the suspected bad coil is not a dead short .
If its a twin with two HT leads out of a single coil , the best you can do is swap the HT leads .

This is quick & safe ( cos you are not using a random coil , risking blowing the CDI ) , and you are using a known working part.
After you do it you should know for sure whether its the coil/HT side or the stuff driving the coil .
Sometimes coils will break down when they warm up a bit , it can sometimes be running away fine then feel like you hit the kill switch , then as soon as you pull in it will restart and go away again.

Dr4gul4

Roysh. just home from picking up my baby.


So far sooo okkkk ish.. i'm gonna take her out 4 a run now in a bit any way.

they changed the sparks again, and re did the "pins" hands up who knows what they are.

she's not stuttering now from what i can see. altho i havent pushed her hard enough yet.

i'll be back with another up date

Elfish

bushy... wrote:

Didn't follow this thread along after , what i meant was swap the coils over including the low-tension side .
QUICKLY test with an ohmmeter that the suspected bad coil is not a dead short .

QUICKLY why? The 'warm up' problem will have dissappeared before you test no matter how quickly you get the coil tested?

bushy... wrote:

If its a twin with two HT leads out of a single coil , the best you can do is swap the HT leads .

This is quick & safe ( cos you are not using a random coil , risking blowing the CDI ) , and you are using a known working part.

I agree quick and safe from point of view that the coil is not random (in case it has been 'matched' in some way to CDI) BUT, from point of view of trying to start/test run the engine, won't the timing be completely out if you just swap the HT leads on a twin with just the one coil with 2 HT feeds?

This is what I was getting at ......so does anyone know if twin cylindered bike will run if its two HT plug leads are swapped with each other?

Elfish

Dr4gul4 wrote:

they changed the sparks again, and re did the "pins" hands up who knows what they are.

Guessing that pins=male connectors of block connectors.
ie poor connections was your problem. Do any of the block connectors look poor - ie green crystal crud on inside metal faces or rusty?

'Pins' sounds a bit bogey to me.

Hotblack Desiato

Dr4gul4 wrote:

they changed the sparks again, and re did the "pins" hands up who knows what they are.

Carb needles probably (only a complete d**khead would call them pins though, which is rather worrying)

I'm not a mechanic but your symptoms sounded more carb-related than electrics-related to me

Elfish

ninja900 wrote:

Carb needles probably (only a complete d**khead would call them pins though, which is rather worrying)

I'm not a mechanic but your symptoms sounded more carb-related than electrics-related to me

Needles probably alright, needles , pins, sure whatever yer having yourself
Redo needles though? Check they're not bent and reseat? Sounds a bit fob offish to me.

Anyway, hope you're back on the road again:cool:

Kinetic^

Yeah they pwned your ass Drag, pwned it good!!!!!

Dr4gul4

Thanks Mark !!!


Right well folks, all seems ok, the idle revs are little high on it, even though i've turned them down to the lowest, thats semi fixed it.

The only time now i get popping from the engine is when slowing down, dropping a grear, breaking, drop another gear. and the engine revs are a little high, so you get that winning sound. the engine pops a little then.

Other wise she's back to full power all system go, fire fricking lazors