Diagnosis, please

fourmations

hi all

got a new (used) guitar today

its a set neck mahogany Ibanez SZ
(a thread will surely follow from me, its gorgeous!!)

I lowered the action when i got home (gibraltar bridge)
and there is lots of buzzing and poor notes
from the 14th on, although the action
is still quite high,

Does this sound like a truss thing?
My guess is that there is the neck needs a bit of backward bend?

I was going to try it myself, as i tend to believe that the
dangers of truss tampering are highly exaggerted,
and have read many a web article stating that common sense
prevails, make tiny changes, if resistance is felt
or your cautious adjustment make no difference, STOP!

there is also a wierd thing, where if you bend at the
15th on e, b or g, the note dies when it touches the 19th
(but only on a bend,sounds like a hump in the middle of the 19th

any thoughts, i know many will tell me to get a pro on it
(which I may well do,) but I would rather not spend
more dosh on it straight away, i aint got it!
i would also be curious though as to whether
my suspicions sound right.

I dont think the guitar was set-up well in the first place
as its not so old and shows very little play in its good condition

regards

4

It wasn't me!

pics will help the diagnosis to be honest, also good ogling material, coincidentally.

Karl Hungus

Sounds like the neck could use an adjustment alright, but if in doubt, you may want to take it to a pro and get them to give it a full setup.

Doctor J

Hold the low E string down on the 1st fret and the last fret. Is there a gap between the string and the top of the fret between the 7th and 12th frets?

fourmations

hi all

thanks for the swift responses

doc, yes there is a 1mm gap (slid a .8m plec in easily)
(which would be a hell of a lot more than my uber low squier)

rgds

4

Voodu Child

Honestly, if the problem only starts at the 14th fret, the truss rod isnt likely to be the issue (although you should certainly check the relief anyway).

In relation to your wondering about the dangers or truss rod tampering - youre right, its a load of rubbish. You CAN screw up the neck, but only if youre an idiot and dont read up on it first, and make sure you know what youre doing.

More than likely, your guitar needs the frets levelled. How high is the action btw?

Doctor J

OK, personally I like a little less relief in the neck than that. I'd tighten the truss rod a little and adjust the action to taste afterwards. Take your time doing it though, it can go pear shaped, until you get used to doing it just take it easy.

When there is a lot of relief in the neck, like you say here, it changes the relative height of the strings over the upper frets. Where the curve in the neck is contributing to highering the action over the lower frets (meaning greater clearance over the next fret), in effect it's lowering the relative action as you move towards the bridge as the neck relief is taken out of the equasion, meaning less clearance. It's all about finding a balance you're comfortable with.

fourmations

hi

the action at the 12th is 1.6mm
(roughly measured with plecs again!)

i know it sounds okay but it feels like more
my squier is at 1mm and I'm used to that
(sounds like a tiny difference, but very noticible)

ta

4

Voodu Child

fourmations wrote:

hi

the action at the 12th is 1.6mm
(roughly measured with plecs again!)

Well, firstly, as the Doc says, take a little relief out of the neck. I play with under 0.5mm, but obviously my guitars are a little different - I guess between 0.5 and 1 would be a ballpark for your guitar, though obviously its impossible to say without seeing it. Give it maybe 1/8 (a quarter at most) of a turn now, and check it again in the morning.

fourmations

hi all

was home at lunch and did an eight turn tighter (if even)
I didnt do anything with it last night.

went swimmingly, no resistance,

didnt seem to do much, but it will rest until I get home
and I will check it again,

i was thinking though, (as it is a set neck)
that a truss rod break would write the guitar off
as the neck cant be removed.

I was even thinking about having a go at the raised fret
mask up the neck and sand gently, as i cna pinpoint the fret
wher the problem is, Simple as that?

BTW: i like this quote from the techie at Ibanezrules:

I don't know what it is about a truss rod that can make grown men cower like little boys at the thought of having to make an adjustment. This should help break your fear and allow you to wear pants again proudly. Much of this fear comes from techs that will tell you "you can ruin your neck if you mess with the truss rod!", which, is a really good way to scare you into relying on the tech to do all your light work for you. Can you ruin a neck adjusting the truss rod? Sure, if you're an IDIOT! So, if you're an idiot and can't follow simple instructions, STOP HERE, and keep paying that local tech whatever he wants to keep your guitar adjusted. Just make sure he ties your shoelaces before you leave so you don't trip and fall and skin your knees since you probably forgot to put your pants on. The rest of you please read on, this is simple stuff, the only requirement is the ability to turn a wrench and the slightest bit of common sense.

ciao

4

Voodu Child

I was even thinking about having a go at the raised fret
mask up the neck and sand gently, as i cna pinpoint the fret
wher the problem is, Simple as that?

Theres nothing too difficult about fret-levelling once you knwo what youre doing, and have the right equip.

However, I wouldnt practice on your main guitar, I used to use an old crappy one to practice.

EDIT - I should say, before you go buying fret files, and a fret-rocker, get the relief down a little, and adjust the action to the point where it doesnt buzz any more. Then tell us what the action is at the 22nd fret. Just to make sure youre not looking for an unrealistically low action.

feylya

I ruined a truss rod once, on my main guitar (which I still have). Thought me infinite amounts about truss rods, how they work, how they're installed, how they can break. Fixed it in the end and it's still one of my favourite guitars.

Quattroste

feylya wrote:

I ruined a truss rod once, on my main guitar (which I still have). Thought me infinite amounts about truss rods, how they work, how they're installed, how they can break. Fixed it in the end and it's still one of my favourite guitars.

Pfhh Idiot! That's nearly as bad as sanding the fretboard of my Eggle with steel wool(and not the fine grade stuff either) :eek:

Voodu Child

Quattroste wrote:

Pfhh Idiot! That's nearly as bad as sanding the fretboard of my Eggle with steel wool(and not the fine grade stuff either) :eek:

Nothing wrong with very fine grade steel wool on rosewood.

We've all had our fair share of bloopers, it's part of the reason why I think its important to learn the basics early on, when more than likely your guitar is only worth a couple of hundred euro. Nothing worse than some idiot with an expensive Gibson LP who doesnt know how to adjust the action & intonation!:D

fourmations

feylya,

how did you botch your truss
(seeing as I am playing with mine)

overzealous turning?

ciao

4

feylya

Trying to turn it while drunk with an allen key that wouldn't fit Rounded the bullet on the end of the rod.

fourmations

hi all

i've done a quarter turn and there is a difference
but not enough, will I go again?, all seems well
no real resistance on turning the truss

ciao

4

Voodu Child

Yeah, go again, thats the idea behind taking it easy - so you can see the effect that your 1/4 turn has had, and can guage how much more it needs.

Just remember, as I said in my first post, its going to have very little effect on the action problem you mentioned. You're just lowering the relief because it was a little high anyway - so dont be using the action as a way of judging your truss rod adjustments.

And dont forget - youre not looking for a straight neck. I wouldnt say you need to take THAT much out of the relief, just a few 1/10ths of a mm.

fourmations

hi all

i decided to send it in to a tech after all!

i wasnt scared of the truss (honest!)
there are several issues on the guitar
that I would not have a go at,

will keep yis posted

rgds

4

JHet

fourmations wrote:

hi all

i decided to send it in to a tech after all!

i wasnt scared of the truss (honest!)
there are several issues on the guitar
that I would not have a go at,

will keep yis posted

rgds

4

Yeah, sounds like you got a bit of a dud. Thats prob why the seller got rid of it. I found myself in the exact same predicament a couple of years ago, only with a brand new guitar. It was actually an Ibanez copy. Same thing happened, whenever i lowered the action everything went pear shaped. Notes fretting out up the frets etc. its a sign of really poor finishing in the factory IMHO. Needless to say i sent it back straight away, and told them to make sure it had been setup and checked properly this time. I got a brand new guitar that was pretty much perfect. It even had a new set of strings, and it was obvious someone had just set it up recently. I wasn't that bothered because it was a pretty cheap copy in the first place and these things happen in mass production. However i am surprised an instrument like that got past Ibanez quality control. Its def the frets that need leveling anyway. its a pity u hav to go and spend more money now. The guy who had originally should hav sent it back.

Voodu Child

However i am surprised an instrument like that got past Ibanez quality control.

Korean Ibanez's arent made by Ibanez, but by Cort, under licence, same as the Gibson/Epiphone thing. Fret jobs arent their strong point, and on a lot of models, the bridges arent even radiused to match the fretboards. Thats why you'll never hear me recommend a Korean Ibanez - i probably sound like a broken record by now..

That said, I doubt there is anything majorly wrong with this guitar - a fret level isnt the end of the world, esp on a used guitar.

JHet

voodoo_child wrote:

a fret level isnt the end of the world, esp on a used guitar.

True enough, its just inconvenient.