Thanks to all from H.R.T.A

nonex

Many thank to all who attended our first skirmish in Dublin. Aspecially those who had an early start and traveled far.We hope you all had a great time.
All your comments and suggestings are greatly apreciated so keep them coming and any senario ideas.
C U all again soon.
Paul and Mel
PS. And special thanks to N.O.I.P and O1S1N for helping out on the day.

Dave!

Thanks for starting the HRTA site in the first place Paul, it was run very efficiently yesterday, and here's hoping that it grows and grows!

Hivemind187

Thanks for setting it all up Paul. I had a fantastic time ... although next time I'll be smart and bring a long sleeve shirt.

[--SC(+)PE--]

Cheers paul, great setup ya got their it was so worth the long journey , was good 2 put a few faces to names aswell.

EyesOnly

Yeah very good day indeed pitty i had to go early (good job we did the navigator got us lose <---ME), wish i could have stayed tho .

Anyway im hoping i can get up again soon,but ive got alot on this next few weeks or month depending how thing turn out.

Tnx to everyone that turned up and made it a great day ( and next time can N.O.I.P not be a marshal so we can shoot him, Not that he didnt get shot at tho

Thanks to Paul & Mel for the great day,keep them coming.

Fiach Dubh

Thanks for making this hapepen nonex. I really enjoyed yesterday. The CQB is so much more intense then woodland

[--SC(+)PE--]

The CQB is so much more intense then woodland

more painful 2 id imagine! *rubs neck*

Dave!

SCOPE can you take a look at your PM's please

[--SC(+)PE--]

yup, replied

Harlequin Wolf

I believe the term "Just run in for gods sake!!!" is going to become the war cry of the SWAT.:D

Fiach Dubh

I think "LEEROY JENKINS" should be the SWAT's battlecry

NakedHedgehog

What I found funny was the "CHAAAAARGE" call by Paddy(?).
Problem was, he was the only one to run in - got shot to bits, limped back and no one else followed him.

Now for the comments bit. Don't take this the wrong way, I enjoyed the day for the most part; these are to be seen as constructive critique (as it wasn't perfect) to hopefully make it a long lasting venue just 5 minutes from where I live

So the Pros:
- close to where I live
- good potential as soon as the rest of the site is opened up
- good to meet the rest of the irish crowd
- some good marshalling and friendly 'staff'

Now the Cons with constructive suggestions:

Safezone
This is possibly the single biggest issue that needs a fix before the next game.
It's unacceptable to have a safezone labeled as "safe", people having to sign documents saying they adhere to 'safezone' rules and then not provide a "safe" zone. Inside the barn wont do, due to richochets. Outside of the barn is still too close to the action and is also on the way to the "firing range" which means a lot of live weapons walking to and fro. Add to that the relative inexperience of most people there (and, I'm afraid to say immaturity in some cases as well) and the "safezone" becomes a liability. Having people run around with guns loaded when I'm not wearing eye protection makes me incredibly uneasy. Being shot by some kid by accident when I'm not wearing eye protection underlines that point. "Sorry" will not cut it when I'm doing a Pirate impression for the rest of my life.

Constructive Suggestion
Set up the safe-zone behind the firing range (backing on to the derelict buildings as long as they aren't being used) and move the firing range closer to the mound (it's a CQB site, people don't need to test their shots for long range accuracy). Put up some netting there to net it off and strictly enforce (with punishment shoots if necessary) the "no-mag, no-bullets, no-shooting, no-pointing" rules in the safe zone.

_____________________________________

Downtime
There was a lot of down-time on Saturday. I'm sure this was purely due to the fact that it was the first game ever, which is fair enough. But it does cause cool-down, which leads to freezing your ass off when you've been sweating and can also lead to muscle cramps when your muscles start to cool down. Not to mention boredom and the "I payed 20 Euros and am standing around waiting for half the time" feeling (okay okay, over-exageration there ).

Constructive Suggestion
Have a set of scenarios planned out for the day (I'm sure that's already happening). Where downtime is necessary (e.g. lunch), keep it to a set time and start promptly with the next scenario once that time is up.

_____________________________________

Full face protection
At the moment there's nothing really stipulated and I know a bunch of people were there without full face protection.

Constructive Suggestion
While I'd shrug away from actually making it mandatory, I would at least put a few signs up saying that full face protection is HIGHLY recommended (in HRTA's current set up). It is of course up to the player, but especially for those that have not played so often and may not fully realize the dangers, it would at least give a heads up.

_____________________________________

Chokepoint
As I think everyone noticed, the entrance in was one giant choke point. While this gave plenty to shoot at for the defenders, it was a bit insane for the attackers. Through into that mix the "Mad Scientist" and it made entering the game zone all the more difficult.

Constructive Suggestion
Push the entry zone closer to barn entrance (more to the centre of the barn) and create another "house" there for attackers to enter by. Have that house connect to multiple exit routes and have a few windows to make the defenders cover several areas, rather than just the one. It will also allow dead people to exit without causing a two-way traffic jam with bullets flying everywhere. This would cut down the inside game area a little bit, but in reality it would probably mean more firefights.

_____________________________________

Scenarios
I really enjoyed the mad scientist one (well, defending anyway). The problem was that the second Mad Scientist was actually mad and didn't seem to have any 'sensitive' parts what so ever. Which caused a complete massacre trying to enter the zone. The other "defend and attack" scenario was fairly good, too.

Constructive Suggestions
Mad Scientist: The Mad Scientist can be too invincible. A suggestion to fixing this is that the Scientist has to go back to the rear of the game zone to "shoot up" every couple of minutes for a minute or so. Another option would be that he becomes stunned if hit by a certain amount of bullets.

Force on Force: Split the attendees up into 5 man teams. One team starts on one side the other on the other side of the game zone. There are a few items they have to retrieve. Played with Elimination rules (once hit, you're out). Should not last longer than 10 minutes. (Winner stays on?)

Zombie Attack (borrowed from Bad Moon Rising): Zombie starts inside, 'Hunters' outside. Zombies cannot be killed but can be stunned with x number of shots. Once Zombie touches a 'Hunter', he becomes a Zombie as well.

Fiach Dubh

I wouldn't want to see the firing range size reduced. You need some range to get an idea of how you'll need your hop set. I've tried setting my guns at close range targets before and it blows, you can't set them properly. I thought the range size was fine.

Dave!

Fiach Dubh wrote:

I wouldn't want to see the firing range size reduced. You need some range to get an idea of how you'll need your hop set. I've tried setting my guns at close range targets before and it blows, you can't set them properly. I thought the range size was fine.

I agree there. The firing range is pretty much the same length as the actual indoors area, which makes sense since that's the max distance that you'll actually be firing! Definitely put netting around it though, and tidy it up (I presume this will be done anyway), ie. clear out all the shrapnel, maybe put a few low "bench" type things that you should stand behind and that you can rest mags, etc., on.

Other than that I'd agree with nhedge for the most part. Especially re: the SWAT entrance, it did take away from the game the way that our only option was to charge out into a tonne of BBs, and then repeat when we get hit. You can understand why some people would be apprehensive about running out, because it seems a little futile -- ESPECIALLY in the first mad scientist game, when the scientist (a) was invincible, (b) had fully auto weapons, and (c) had a SHIELD!!! lol. A few more entrances and some other minor changes indoors would mean we'd actually be reliant on teamwork and tactics rather than having psychos like Paddy and Cormac on your team!

Overall I want to point out that considering it was the first skirmish, it was really good! The site has lots of potential, and I'll keep coming back regularly, and hopefully it'll be further along in development each time Any help I can provide, just let me know!

Spitfire666

The site is designed to be a realistic combat situation and teach tactics. its ot all that bad with the oe door. maybe a second exit for dead people walking out but other then that its not too bad

Fiach Dubh

I vote to classify Paddy and Cormac as weapons of mass destruction and should only be deployed in extreme conditions

Dave!

Spitfire666 wrote:

The site is designed to be a realistic combat situation and teach tactics. its ot all that bad with the oe door. maybe a second exit for dead people walking out but other then that its not too bad

Well in fairness the places that SWAT would be entering and clearing in real life would likely have more than 1 entrance! ie. front door, back door, windows, roof. If we were to be teaching tactics then I would think we'd have the SWAT broken into smaller groups and be entering simultaneously from different entrances, for example. It's not really realistic to have everyone charge in through the one bottle neck.

(or was that your point and I just missed it? lol)

Spitfire666

Slitting into groups of say 3 or 4 and having to clear the whole opposition in the fastest time was where i was going even though i didnt actualy type it lol.
The second door would clear any build up of bodies and should a second floor go n at some stage, well, thats a bit further down the line but the possibilities are there.

nonex

nhedge wrote:

What I found funny was the "CHAAAAARGE" call by Paddy(?).
Problem was, he was the only one to run in - got shot to bits, limped back and no one else followed him.

Now for the comments bit. Don't take this the wrong way, I enjoyed the day for the most part; these are to be seen as constructive critique (as it wasn't perfect) to hopefully make it a long lasting venue just 5 minutes from where I live

So the Pros:
- close to where I live
- good potential as soon as the rest of the site is opened up
- good to meet the rest of the irish crowd
- some good marshalling and friendly 'staff'

Now the Cons with constructive suggestions:

Safezone
This is possibly the single biggest issue that needs a fix before the next game.
It's unacceptable to have a safezone labeled as "safe", people having to sign documents saying they adhere to 'safezone' rules and then not provide a "safe" zone. Inside the barn wont do, due to richochets. Outside of the barn is still too close to the action and is also on the way to the "firing range" which means a lot of live weapons walking to and fro. Add to that the relative inexperience of most people there (and, I'm afraid to say immaturity in some cases as well) and the "safezone" becomes a liability. Having people run around with guns loaded when I'm not wearing eye protection makes me incredibly uneasy. Being shot by some kid by accident when I'm not wearing eye protection underlines that point. "Sorry" will not cut it when I'm doing a Pirate impression for the rest of my life.

Constructive Suggestion
Set up the safe-zone behind the firing range (backing on to the derelict buildings as long as they aren't being used) and move the firing range closer to the mound (it's a CQB site, people don't need to test their shots for long range accuracy). Put up some netting there to net it off and strictly enforce (with punishment shoots if necessary) the "no-mag, no-bullets, no-shooting, no-pointing" rules in the safe zone.

_____________________________________

Downtime
There was a lot of down-time on Saturday. I'm sure this was purely due to the fact that it was the first game ever, which is fair enough. But it does cause cool-down, which leads to freezing your ass off when you've been sweating and can also lead to muscle cramps when your muscles start to cool down. Not to mention boredom and the "I payed 20 Euros and am standing around waiting for half the time" feeling (okay okay, over-exageration there ).

Constructive Suggestion
Have a set of scenarios planned out for the day (I'm sure that's already happening). Where downtime is necessary (e.g. lunch), keep it to a set time and start promptly with the next scenario once that time is up.

_____________________________________

Full face protection
At the moment there's nothing really stipulated and I know a bunch of people were there without full face protection.

Constructive Suggestion
While I'd shrug away from actually making it mandatory, I would at least put a few signs up saying that full face protection is HIGHLY recommended (in HRTA's current set up). It is of course up to the player, but especially for those that have not played so often and may not fully realize the dangers, it would at least give a heads up.

_____________________________________

Chokepoint
As I think everyone noticed, the entrance in was one giant choke point. While this gave plenty to shoot at for the defenders, it was a bit insane for the attackers. Through into that mix the "Mad Scientist" and it made entering the game zone all the more difficult.

Constructive Suggestion
Push the entry zone closer to barn entrance (more to the centre of the barn) and create another "house" there for attackers to enter by. Have that house connect to multiple exit routes and have a few windows to make the defenders cover several areas, rather than just the one. It will also allow dead people to exit without causing a two-way traffic jam with bullets flying everywhere. This would cut down the inside game area a little bit, but in reality it would probably mean more firefights.

_____________________________________

Scenarios
I really enjoyed the mad scientist one (well, defending anyway). The problem was that the second Mad Scientist was actually mad and didn't seem to have any 'sensitive' parts what so ever. Which caused a complete massacre trying to enter the zone. The other "defend and attack" scenario was fairly good, too.

Constructive Suggestions
Mad Scientist: The Mad Scientist can be too invincible. A suggestion to fixing this is that the Scientist has to go back to the rear of the game zone to "shoot up" every couple of minutes for a minute or so. Another option would be that he becomes stunned if hit by a certain amount of bullets.

Force on Force: Split the attendees up into 5 man teams. One team starts on one side the other on the other side of the game zone. There are a few items they have to retrieve. Played with Elimination rules (once hit, you're out). Should not last longer than 10 minutes. (Winner stays on?)

Zombie Attack (borrowed from Bad Moon Rising): Zombie starts inside, 'Hunters' outside. Zombies cannot be killed but can be stunned with x number of shots. Once Zombie touches a 'Hunter', he becomes a Zombie as well.

some good suggestions,but no one has played cqb before from what i seen on the day,the thing is that i have only have 5000 sqf and to get 6 hours of play, the game has to be hard, that's what cqb is, it's all about team play
the bady's dont plan, ctt do plan and that's what get's the job done, it's all about planing and it take's time, it has nou't to do with speed,it's get job done.
it's hard to play a 10min or 30min game's as it would have more time standing around, and as for 5 man teams what do you do with the 15 men standing around.
the firing range is to be inside, but i was asked on saturday to test fire some guns so i said at the side of the shed for the day.
it's up to the people you play airsoft to play by the rules and if you see some one not playing by the rules to tell them and point it out, and why that way we get to keep our sport, it's up to us and not me alone, if you see it call it there and then and point it out to them and that way we get to keep airsoft in ireland.
airsoft is new to ireland and will have a lot of new comer's ,so we have to make the rule's andnpush it on them.
if not it's gone, some td will stop it before it's even started

Red Yama

I think the one entrance is fine and doable, with a couple of tweaks to the cover. It is tough and a meatgrinder, but it is very satisfying when you eventually make it. Mad Scientist was interesting, needs a bit of tweaking though (pistol only for the Scientist, or some other such limitation). That way, even if you have a masochist standing at the door, he'll only be able to pick off a pistol mag's worth before you can swarm in. That would've been Paddy and myself with the war cries, but sadly we'd usually end up rushing in alone or with 1 or 2 other crazies, kill a few, then get killed. When the whole team eventually ran in with us, we got in no problem.

ditpaintball

I happy it went well for you guys. Now, has any body got pics?

here.from.day.1

Some Pics:

http://www.airsoftireland.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=418

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055055936

o1s1n

Nice one, I hadn't seen those photos up on airsoftireland.

EyesOnly

i had a few more they weren't that great tho

Evolute

Well regardless of what people thought. I thought it was deadly yes the door was a problem but that was because there were little 12 year olds too afriad of getting shot

o1s1n

I suppose the door had to be like that to stop everyone running it at once. Would have been a little crazy with 25 people inside.

mcdonnst

Is this on again this weekend?

Would love to try it out, very interested in getting involved.

o1s1n

It is indeed I plan on going anyway.

EyesOnly

hmm cant go for awhile , had to spend €200 on the car after we got home......... some c%$t on a roundabout on our way up on Saturday = hit kerb and buckled wheelrim + ripped tyre = €75, smashed front fog light = €50, and plastic wheel arch cover+ clips to hold it on = €75.

o1s1n

Sh1t! And think of the nice pistol you could buy with €200....

Dave!

I'll probably wait for my eHobby order to arrive before I go again. Hopefully next weekend!

EyesOnly

well i was thinking of a Hi-Capa Dragon 7"

Harlequin Wolf

Hopefully we can get another group together for this coming saturday, that last skirmish was a right life.

mcdonnst

Ill go, Ill need to rent the gear tho, might bring a mate.


I have a car so maybe I can help with some lifts.

Spitfire666

****, the powers that be are expecting riots in the city centre on Saturday so i'll be otherwise engaged until around 6. (wont say which side i'll be engaged with mind lol) If theres drinks on again afterwards somebody give me a ring. i'll work up a thirst before i finish.

I'll be there Sunday for a bit around 2.

Hivemind187

Actually, regardless of my own political leanings and attitudes, it would be well to remind everyone travelling on Saturday to BE EXTRA CAREFUL NOT TO EXPOSE YOUR AEG/PISTOL etc

The cops will be on the look out for anyone in camo gear since the Womble movement tends to sport it as a fashion statement. being caught with anything even resembling a firearm during a riot, protest, or any political rally could have disasterous results for the Sport of Airsoft and even result of a kicking at the hands of the Gardai.

Oisin, if you see fit perhaps post it up as a bulletin.

Spitfire666

Theres no need to panic about it though.
I wouldnt go meeting up in the city center though for fear of being confronted by others besides the gardai and would wait until getting to the site before putting on the combats so you dont draw undue attention but other then that i wouldnt be worried about it.

Red Yama

The hell is a womble? Timing could be very unfortunate for us returning to city center around 1800, if anything is happening it will still be going strong then. I suppose the solution is to make sure everyone has harmless civvies (or not in the case of ye mad max brigade :P).

o1s1n

What the hell is going on in town on Saturday?

The 41c bus stop is a bit away from O Connell street. What we could do is meet up somewhere a little away from it all, say Tara Dart station and talk a longer yet safer way around.

If there is at all a chance of being associated with some group causing trouble then yes, I'd also strongly suggest not wearing any camo gear at all.

Slightly confusing for myself as I generally wear camo combats every day of the week!

Spitfire666

Just avoid the city centre if at all possible.

Red Yama

There is an Ireland-England rugby match at Croke Park, I understand some protests are planned. Feb 25th last year saw some rioting by unsavoury elements in the same crowd I gather.

Spitfire666

Think Reclaim the streets and thats what the powers that be are expecting.

o1s1n

Ah I see. Shows how out of the loop I am.

Well if its that much of a potential disaster we could always get a group to head out on Sunday instead? It would be quite difficult for me and a few of the southside lads to sort out getting to Swords without transferring over to the 41c somewhere in the city.

Red Yama

I'd have no problem switching to the sunday, may have to defend my house on saturday anyway if the spiftire blockade is broken

N.O.I.P.

well we should be going through town early so hopefully it will be before any trouble starts, and just in case we could stick to civvies for the day besides we dont really need woodland camo etc for a cqb place now do we

Spitfire666

I never said which side I'd be on Red Yama

Sunday would be good.
Would also mean i'd be there t shoot/get shot at with you lot.

o1s1n

N.O.I.P. wrote:

well we should be going through town early so hopefully it will be before any trouble starts, and just in case we could stick to civvies for the day besides we dont really need woodland camo etc for a cqb place now do we

You mean my woodland camo didn't make me meld into the wooden crates?

[--SC(+)PE--]

about as much as my portugal camo i think, should have wore that for the skirmish lol... so outa place

Red Yama

Well Spit, regardless of side, stay off my lawn ;P. Camo makes 0 difference at that site, speed is the armor.

Spitfire666

Its so dark in there that any normal clothes do fine.

Fiach Dubh

Red Yama wrote:

The hell is a womble? Timing could be very unfortunate for us returning to city center around 1800, if anything is happening it will still be going strong then. I suppose the solution is to make sure everyone has harmless civvies (or not in the case of ye mad max brigade :P).

They wander around Wimbledon Common collecting rubish, I had no idea they were rioters too. Must just be a weekend thing for them

By the way I can't make it if we switch to Sunday, I have other plans.