Deadlift and squat on same day?

Anton17

I've been thinking of adding the deadlift into my 3 day split. I've put it off long enough for no good reason.
Is it ok to have on the same day as my squat though?
My programme is currently like this...
Day 1. Chest, Triceps
Day 2. Biceps, Back
Day 3. Legs, Core

Kevin2006

Just a word of warning on the deadlift and squat. I was doing them both together last week and I really hurt my lower back. It was my fault, I was lifting too much and doing too many reps - but at the time it seemed fine, I could do them without too much hassle but after I finished came the pain.

I would recommend that you only do one back exercise in the day and have a belt or some support at your back. They are dangerous exercises if your new to working out. I was crippled for two days!

davyjose

Start with the Deadlift - if your legs get tired you'll naturally apply more pressure on the lower back and are more likely to lose form.

walt0r

Same thing happened to me as did to Kevin. Did squats first and did deads, not that I went too heavy, rather light, but I aggrevated my lower back which was recovering quite nicely...

justsomebloke

I did them both of them on the same day twice a week for around 4 weeks awhile ago with no ill effect, however as stated it can be easy to screw it up so make sure you form is good on both. however as you have a seperate back day would you not put it on that

Dragan

I used to do max effort squat, bench and deadlift all on the same day as part of my 5x5 program. It can be done but may not be optimal for your own particular recovery?

Degsy

Big compound lifts really take it out of you,doing more than one in one session is asking for an injury or at least a compromise in form.

amazingemmet

I think it completely depends on your numbers and conditioning. Ie if your doing something like a 200kg squat and dead then i'd say no have them on seperate days but if they're 100kgish i'd say it is fine to have them on the same day

Anton17

Could I add the deadlift in to my back and biceps day then?
Currently I'm doin
Lat pull downs.
upright rows,
chins,
shrugs,
ez curls and hammer curls...

Guvnor

Do the squat and deadlift every other week.
Either exercise really should be the focus of that particular session.

davyjose

Schwarzenegger did Deadlifts as part of his back routine. And Squats as his leg routine - on different days. He did the Deadlift two days before the Squats - makes sense! I reckon he's a good benchmark
Actually found his workout, interesting how he does his abs:

Mon, Wed, Fri

Chest:
Bench press - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Flat bench flies - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Incline bench press - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
Cable crossovers - 6 sets, 10-12 reps
Dips - 5 sets, to failure
Dumbbell pullovers - 5 sets, 10-12 reps


Back:
Front wide-grip chin-ups - 6 sets, to failure
T-bar rows - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Seated pulley rows - 6 sets, 6-10 reps
One-arm dumbbell rows - 5 sets, 6-10 reps
Straight-leg deadlifts - 6 sets, 15 reps


Legs:
Squats - 6 sets, 8-12 reps
Leg presses - 6 sets, 8-12 reps
Leg extensions - 6 sets, 12-15 reps
Leg curls - 6 sets, 10-12 reps
Barbell lunges - 5 sets, 15 reps


Calves:
Standing calf raises -10 sets, 10 reps
Seated calf raises - 8 sets, 15 reps
One-legged calf raises (holding dumbbells) - 6 sets,12 reps


Forearms:
Wrist curls (forearms on knees) - 4 sets, 10 reps
Reverse barbell curls - 4 sets, 8 reps
Wright roller machine - to failure


Abs:
Nonstop instinct training for 30 minutes

amazingemmet

F**ksake thats a lot of volume, you'd need some enhancment to hack it at any decent intensity

Dragan

Davy, can you find the cycle he was running at the time?

brianthebard

davyjose wrote:

Schwarzenegger did Deadlifts as part of his back routine. And Squats as his leg routine - on different days. He did the Deadlift two days before the Squats - makes sense! I reckon he's a good benchmark
Actually found his workout, interesting how he does his abs:

iirc Arnie feels that spot reduction of fat is possible. He told me down the pub one night.;)

davyjose

No, he didn't tell me in the pub. I just researched it online (it's also in one of the muscle mags this month flex or muscle & fitness (not sure), if anyone wants to take a look). It's not definitive proof; I didn't ask him personally. If anyone wants to, feel free to believe different.
Dragan, I don't preach to know about his exact routine, and I'm sure that is nothing but a snapshot of his workout. However (assuming we all believe what's written down once in a while), there were occasions when The Oak didn't do Deadlifts and Squats on the same day!
That's my $0.02

celt2005

Two nuerally taxing exercises on one day ..... prefer to split them up,

Add Deadlifts into upper body day at start of Programme, as if you tire and lose form , ya are off to James for a small holiday !!

Degsy

Dragan wrote:

Davy, can you find the cycle he was running at the time?

I dont think he bothered cycling,he'd neck 8 or 9 dianabol at a time,all the time.

brianthebard

davyjose wrote:

No, he didn't tell me in the pub. I just researched it online (it's also in one of the muscle mags this month flex or muscle & fitness (not sure), if anyone wants to take a look). It's not definitive proof; I didn't ask him personally. If anyone wants to, feel free to believe different.

Dude you misinterpreted me. I wasn't pulling the piss from you, I read an article in which it said he believed that spot reduction worked. The article wasn't exactly authoritive and I didn't have it to hand in any case, so I made a bit of a joke of it to show I wasn't treating this snippet of information as gospel.

Personally I've always thought of a deadlift as primarily a back exercise, but simply because it takes a lot out of you I don't do squats on the same day.

p.s. Front squats are awesome, for anyone who didn't know.

g'em

Why do people insist on using the exact workouts that pro's use? Did it work for Arnie? sure it did. But he was at the peak of his game, training twice a day practically every day with years of experience behind him!! and as mentioned he was training with the aid of erm... "supplements" to aid recovery time and maximise hypertrophy.

OP if you haven't done deadlifts before by all means start. Personally I think they're the best of all the exercises out there. If you haven't done them before please make sure you get someone (who knows what they're doing) to show you how it's done right. Leave your ego at the door and start out light until you know how you respond to them.

My deadlifting is always heavy, and there's no way on earth I'd do them on the same day as squats. But I train for strength, not size. If I was doing them to make my back look good I could afford to lower the weight and do them on the same day as squats. Otherwise heavy squats and heavy DLs on the same day put too much strain on my lower back.

Both jsb and Dragan have done programs that incorporate 5 sets of 5 reps of squats and deadlifts on the same day, but until you've done DLs for a bit and you're sure you can manage it, it's probably advisable to leave them for back day alone. Accompnay them with nice heavy compoound pulling movements like rows (cable, t-bar, bent-over) and pulls (rack, straight-leg deadlifts) and you're onto a winner. For most people 3-4 different exercises of 3 sets a pice is more than enough for back work.

p.s. yes BtB, front squats are awesome - but back squats are still awesomer

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hey. Sorry about resurrecting a new thread... I've been training six months now, and think that deadlifts are worth throwing in at this stage. mentioned it to one of the gym instructors, but he said to leave it a few more weeks as it's advanced. Is this BS?

Hanley

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Hey. Sorry about resurrecting a new thread... I've been training six months now, and think that deadlifts are worth throwing in at this stage. mentioned it to one of the gym instructors, but he said to leave it a few more weeks as it's advanced. Is this BS?

Did he give you any reason as to why you'd be more "advanced" in a few weeks?

Hanley

I should also say, the advice is BS.

Just ask Malteaser here. Ther first lift she EVER did was a deadlfit. Might as well start on the right path....

Now 5ish months on she's pulled 100kg while only weighing 60. And there's lots more to come.

Vegeta

Hanley wrote: »

Now 5ish months on she's pulled 100kg while only weighing 60.

That's madness, animal altogether

I'm with Hanley on this one, read up on form and lift away

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hanley wrote: »

Did he give you any reason as to why you'd be more "advanced" in a few weeks?

No, it's stupid. Then again, I had another instructor tell my mate not to do Skull Crushers cos that too was an advanced exercise. One of the regulars there called bull**** on that though, caused a wee 'discussion' with me and my mate standing there half amused and half embarrassed.

Anyhoo, I'll lash ahead with the deadlift tonight and get someone to show me. Cheers Hanley!

rubadub

If you are worried just start light. I used to be "afraid" of them but do them now and like them. Make sure your form is OK and all should be fine. They leave me shattered.

I now have large diameter 20kg plates so it is a little higher, and I take a wider stance so feel more comfortable doing them.

Dragan

No such thing as an "advanced" lift per se.

"isolation" , "compound" , "Dynamic" just about covers it.

The only indicator of your "level" would be your form......once you can maintain your form you can lift what you like.....once you can maintain your form.

Malteaser!

Hanley wrote: »

I should also say, the advice is BS.

Just ask Malteaser here. Ther first lift she EVER did was a deadlfit. Might as well start on the right path....

Now 5ish months on she's pulled 100kg while only weighing 60. And there's lots more to come.

True story.

Like others have said, jsut make sure you get your form right from the very starta and you''ll be flying...

Jumpy

What weight did you start at Malteaser?

Malteaser!

Jumpy wrote: »

What weight did you start at Malteaser?

Erm, since I've started lifting I've always been in and around the 60kg mark, give or take a kilo depending on time of day, time of month etc...

King of Kings

Anton17 wrote: »

I've been thinking of adding the deadlift into my 3 day split. I've put it off long enough for no good reason.
Is it ok to have on the same day as my squat though?
My programme is currently like this...
Day 1. Chest, Triceps
Day 2. Biceps, Back
Day 3. Legs, Core

off topic - but where are the shoulders?
do you have shoulders?

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hey.

Did the deadlifts tonight, and Christ, do they ever earn their name. I've never been so drained by one exercise, but it felt great. My lower back felt pumped, and even though I didn't really feel it, I know my legs were hit because they were shaky later on.

However, I was told to do them every second week - thinking of doing squats and deadlifts alternating weeks?

Malteaser!

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Hey.

Did the deadlifts tonight, and Christ, do they ever earn their name. I've never been so drained by one exercise, but it felt great. My lower back felt pumped, and even though I didn't really feel it, I know my legs were hit because they were shaky later on.

However, I was told to do them every second week - thinking of doing squats and deadlifts alternating weeks?

Why don't you squat one day and deadlift another day in the same week??

Did that guy make up the rest of your program?? What does it look like??

Jimmy Bottlehead

Malteaser! wrote: »

Why don't you squat one day and deadlift another day in the same week??

Did that guy make up the rest of your program?? What does it look like??

No I came up with my program myself, here is is (except deadlifts are now part of it):



Day 1: Chest/Triceps
Day 2: Back/Biceps
Day 3: Legs/Shoulders

I do three sets across the board, aiming to do around 15 on the first set, between 10-12 on the second set and 4-10 on the final set, raising the weight each time. usually go to failure or use the rest-pause technique.

Day 1:

Incline bench press
Decline Press
Flyes

Tricep pulldowns w/hand straps
Skull Crushers
Narrow-Grip sitting chest press machine


Day 2:
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
Standing Narrow Grip lat pulldown
Bent Over dumbbell Rows

Standing E-Z bar bicep burls
Preacher Curls
(and if I've anything left) 21's (7 low, 7 high, and 7 full curls)

Day 3:
Shoulder Press Machine
Front Dumbbell Raises
Lat Raises
Behind the back Barbell shrugs

Squats
Leg Press
Calf Raises

Hanley

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Day 1:personally I'd replace one of the pressing movements iwth flat benches
Incline bench press
Decline Press
Flyes

Tricep pulldowns w/hand straps
Skull Crushers
Narrow-Grip sitting chest press machine


Day 2:
Deadlifts
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
Standing Narrow Grip lat pulldown
Bent Over dumbbell Rows

Standing E-Z bar bicep burls
Preacher Curls
(and if I've anything left) 21's (7 low, 7 high, and 7 full curls)

Day 3 Changed legs before shoulders:
Squats
Leg Press
Calf Raises

Shoulder Press Machine
Front Dumbbell Raises
Lat Raises
Behind the back Barbell shrugs

Bolded above are the adjustments I'd make.

I can see where the guy's coming from about pulling every second week, but since you're a beginner on them you'd get away with them every week. Hell I know guys that pull 300+ and STILL train it weekly.

The trick is to manage volume and intensity. What I've found to work well is to build up over the course of 3 weeks to a new personal record (like say try to increase your 5 rep max) and hten take a deload week, with either 50-60% of the weights you have been using or just take it off from deadlifting totally.

Try to add 5-10kg a week for the 3 weeks and then back off. If you wre working with sets of 5 for the 3 weeks maybe do it with sets of 8, or sets of 3 for the next 3 weeks after a week off.

The progression I followed in the last few weeks was:

W1: 165x5 (to familiarise myself with the moevemnt)
W2: 175 3x5 (this was a hard week and required some effort)
W3: 185 1x5, 2x6 (this was complete gut busting balls out work, I can feel everything starting to hurt now and Iprobably wouldn't have progressed next week so it's time to take an easy week)

Hope that helps.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hanley wrote: »

Bolded above are the adjustments I'd make.

I can see where the guy's coming from about pulling every second week, but since you're a beginner on them you'd get away with them every week. Hell I know guys that pull 300+ and STILL train it weekly.

The trick is to manage volume and intensity. What I've found to work well is to build up over the course of 3 weeks to a new personal record (like say try to increase your 5 rep max) and hten take a deload week, with either 50-60% of the weights you have been using or just take it off from deadlifting totally.

Try to add 5-10kg a week for the 3 weeks and then back off. If you wre working with sets of 5 for the 3 weeks maybe do it with sets of 8, or sets of 3 for the next 3 weeks after a week off.

The progression I followed in the last few weeks was:

W1: 165x5 (to familiarise myself with the moevemnt)
W2: 175 3x5 (this was a hard week and required some effort)
W3: 185 1x5, 2x6 (this was complete gut busting balls out work, I can feel everything starting to hurt now and Iprobably wouldn't have progressed next week so it's time to take an easy week)

Hope that helps.

It does indeed, cheers man! I was actually thinking about getting rid of the incline bench press in favour of the flat-bench so I will do that.

I always figured that any more than three exercises per bodypart was over-doing it a little... is there any truth in this, or another urban legend?

And I did shoulders before legs because when I did legs first, it always left them very shaky when I stood to do uptight rows or shrugs...

I like the idea of an easy week every month or so though - I took the past week off (due to other things, it doesn't happen often at all) and felt great going back this week. Did you just mean it for deadlifts though?

Hanley

I'd do a full deload... 50-60% of the weights for the main movements (squat, bench, deadlifts) and 70-80% of the assitance work (everything else) for half the reps.

Jumpy

I usually do deadlifts straight after squats. Seems to work ok for me.