Driving Test - Moving Down Gears

md99

What's the correct thing to do... Say you're approaching a roundabout in 3, and must give right of way. For my mock test I went down 3-2-1 each time, the transition to 1st always causing shaking and jumping of the car...

Should I just go from 3 to 2, then hit the clutch to give right of way?

chrislad

What I did was switch down to 2 and clutch in when stopping, then switch to first once the car was stopped. The car will generally go fine in second at slow speeds. Always stop in the test, or so I was told, even if you can roll in and go in second.

Pherekydes

This is best practice. No need to stop entering a roundabout if it's clear, though. I would suggest never changing into first while the car is rolling.

Lorax

My instructor always said to go down to 2, for example at a red traffic light, then clutch in and stop, handbrake and neutral =D

Supercell

Yep; first only for starting or driving in slippy conditions.

endplate

Longfield wrote:

Yep; first only for starting or driving in slippy conditions.

Very bad advice there always use high gears in slippery conditions

Wishbone Ash

Longfield wrote:

Yep; first only for starting or driving in slippy conditions.

Tut, tut Longfield. In slippery conditions, one should always use the highest gear possible.

Supercell

endplate wrote:

Very bad advice there always use high gears in slippery conditions

Hey endplate i've heard that before and wondered just what situation that applies too?

Recently drove through Sally Gap down to Enniskerry in the snow mostly in first gear and would have probably stalled the car in any other gear (I don't drive a 4x4 but was the only non 4x4 up there!!).

As you aren't the first person to say that I've no doubt that its right in certain conditions, just which ones though?

copacetic

you don't have to go into first before you stop but you need to be careful not to coast and skip gears when slowing down. eg if in 4th you have to get into 3rd and 2nd before you stop (ideally). Make sure to get off the clutch and get your left hand back on the wheel between each gear change too..

Supercell

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Tut, tut Longfield. In slippery conditions, one should always use the highest gear possible.

Try driving/tobogganing in Sally Gap in fifth!!

Know you are right in general, just don't know which specifics its right to up the gears?

copacetic

Longfield wrote:

Hey endplate i've heard that before and wondered just what situation that applies too?

Recently drove through Sally Gap down to Enniskerry in the snow mostly in first gear and would have probably stalled the car in any other gear (I don't drive a 4x4 but was the only non 4x4 up there!!).

As you aren't the first person to say that I've no doubt that its right in certain conditions, just which ones though?

you should be in the highest gear possible, if you could only crawl in 1st it was the highest gear possible, but you would likely have been alright in 2nd? which would give less chance of wheelspin...

Wishbone Ash

daveym wrote:

eg if in 4th you have to get into 3rd and 2nd before you stop (ideally)

AFAIK it is now acceptable to stop in 3rd (but it's many years since I did the category B test when 2nd was the norm). Dropping to 2nd before stopping was probably apt when most cars were 4 speed but the gear ratios would be different in modern 5 and 6 speeds.

copacetic

Wishbone Ash wrote:

AFAIK it is now acceptable to stop in 3rd (but it's many years since I did the category B test when 2nd was the norm). Dropping to 2nd before stopping was probably apt when most cars were 4 speed but the gear ratios would be different in modern 5 and 6 speeds.

maybe so, but if you are slowing for lights etc you should have loads of time to get into 2nd, I did say ideally! To stop in 3rd you have to coast which is what they really frown upon. All of the test would likely be in 4th anyway in the city so getting from there to 2nd should be handy enough when slowing down.

littlejukka

my IAM assesor advised that changing from 4th to 2nd was perfectly acceptable in some circumstances.

for stopping, you should always try to be in second gear. any higher and you're not in full control of the vehicle, any lower and you're not driving properly. as has been said, first is only for starting or manouvering in tight areas (NOT in snow)

J_R

md99 wrote:

What's the correct thing to do... Say you're approaching a roundabout in 3, and must give right of way.?

If you are certain you are going to have to stop, then stay in 3rd, brake then clutch - Stop.

If you may be able to merge without stopping then select appropriate gear for your speed.

Re. changing down before stopping, my driving school car has 6 gears. Approaching a stop sign in 6th, I have my pupils brake - clutch - stop.

They can then spend their time much more productively checking mirrors, looking well ahead into and to the left and right of the junction, instead of messing with the gears.

Test examiners are quite happy with above.

Hobbes

I recall my driving instructor telling me that you should never drive in first. It is for starting the car off only. You should change to 2nd gear as soon as possible.

copacetic

J_R wrote:

If you are certain you are going to have to stop, then stay in 3rd, brake then clutch - Stop.

If you may be able to merge without stopping then select appropriate gear for your speed.

Re. changing down before stopping, my driving school car has 6 gears. Approaching a stop sign in 6th, I have my pupils brake - clutch - stop.

They can then spend their time much more productively checking mirrors, looking well ahead into and to the left and right of the junction, instead of messing with the gears.

Test examiners are quite happy with above.

:eek: what speed are they approaching the stop sign in to be in 6th? 80 or 90? You must have them coasting for a 100 yards!

Surely they can check mirrors etc while changing down, they aren't in control of the car coasting to a stop and if the can't 'mess' with the gears (if you mean changing gears is 'messing' with them) without looking at them they need a lot more lessons.

J_R

Hi,

They come off a dual carriageway at 100 KPH, there is a STOP sign at end of slip road, all that is necessary is brake and depress the clutch just before the car would start to shudder.

It is impossible to come to a stop without coasting. Unless you run out of petrol, or in my case diesel. Or unless you drive into an immovable object.

When you change gears, irrespective how accompished a driver you are you must remove one hand off the wheel. One handed steering, not 100% in control. And it is unnecessary.

BrianD3

Re: driving in ice. Use the highest gear possible when moving off. However do not use the highest gear possible when approaching a T junction or roundabout or coming down an icy hill. The problem with the "highest gear" advice is that people pick up on it and then apply it to all situations. Most crashes in icy conditions happen becasue someone came down a hil too fast or entered a bend too fast or couldn't stop at a T junction. In these situations, being in the highest gear possible increases the chance of losing control and having a crash

nl

I was told by all my driving instructors that stopping in 3rd gear was 100% acceptable.I carried that advise through to the test and I passed.

oleras

daveym wrote:

:eek: You must have them coasting for a 100 yards!

You only "coast" with the clutch depressed.....

copacetic

oleras wrote:

You only "coast" with the clutch depressed.....

i know ,thats the definition of it, what did u think i meant?

copacetic

J_R wrote:

Hi,

They come off a dual carriageway at 100 KPH, there is a STOP sign at end of slip road, all that is necessary is brake and depress the clutch just before the car would start to shudder.

It is impossible to come to a stop without coasting. Unless you run out of petrol, or in my case diesel. Or unless you drive into an immovable object.

When you change gears, irrespective how accompished a driver you are you must remove one hand off the wheel. One handed steering, not 100% in control. And it is unnecessary.

yes but if your are in 6th you have to be on the clutch long before you are stopped, so you are coasting for a long time. You said the people you teach can't change gears and look around at the same time, nothing about one handed steering

oleras

daveym wrote:

yes but if your are in 6th you have to be on the clutch long before you are stopped,

Do you even drive ?

copacetic

oleras wrote:

Do you even drive ?

why, do you disagree?
You think you can come to an orderly stop in 6th gear?

oleras

daveym wrote:

why, do you disagree?
You think you can come to an orderly stop in 6th gear?

Yes, use the brake.

copacetic

oleras wrote:

Yes, use the brake.

so obviously you don't drive. you would have to be on the clutch from
around 35 if in 6th on average, more depending on the car, you are coasting all the way from there to a stop.
you aren't in control of the car.

oleras

daveym wrote:

so obviously you don't drive. you would have to be on the clutch from
around 35 if in 6th

Dude..........give it up, seriously.....your embarrasing yourself......

copacetic

oleras wrote:

Dude..........give it up, seriously.....your embarrasing yourself......

oh, good argument. you have looked it up and realised you are talking rubbish I
see..

oleras

daveym wrote:

oh, good argument. you have looked it up and realised you are talking rubbish I
see..

>>>>>>> backs away from the scary man...............:eek:

Oh, daveym.......looks like your little brother got into your account and is making you look real silly............

md99

oleras wrote:

>>>>>>> backs away from the scary man...............:eek:

Oh, daveym.......looks like your little brother got into your account and is making you look real silly............

You're worse for keeping it up.

Best solution is always to ignore.

copacetic

md99 wrote:

You're worse for keeping it up.

Best solution is always to ignore.

best of luck with the test so, I'm sure rolling to a stop in 6th
will be grand for you.

oleras

md99 wrote:

You're worse for keeping it up.

Best solution is always to ignore.

I agree, but i honestly think he is not trolling....:eek:

J_R

Hi,


OK, once again

At the bottom of my 1st post I said

Test examiners are quite happy with above.

My pupils DO NOT receive a mark for stopping in 6th.

So, should I inform the testers they are wrong ????

And I totally disagree with your statement you are not in control of the car when stopping in a high gear. You are actually more in control. By not changing down, you have your two hands on the wheel at all times, braking smoothly and regressively to come a gentle controlled stop.

I have read a defense of going down through the gears, that if anything happens you will be able to drive out of trouble. But drive where ?? You are remember approaching a STOP sign, at which you MUST stop. Better to deal with whatever the emergency is, that drive out into a new road where you could get T-boned. And if your observations are good you will see the trouble developing and deal with it before it gets serious.


Best thing:- Go out and try it.

Mitch Connor

what should you do in very slow moving traffic? Or coming up to somewhere you may, or may not have to stop (traffic stopped in front of you, but it is starting to move as you get to it)

Should you always come to a stop, select 1st then move on again, or can you select first while moving slowly and stay in first til second is ok to go in to?

I find my car chugs a lot if i try to move very slowly in second, so i find i need to do my slow driving in first. Sometimes this means i have to select 1st without actually having stopped.

Wishbone Ash

Tauren wrote:

I find my car chugs a lot if i try to move very slowly in second, so i find i need to do my slow driving in first. Sometimes this means i have to select 1st without actually having stopped.

I think that this may be a problem with your car. One shouldn't have to select 1st while the car is moving (unless in exceptional circumstances - e.g. moving slowly up a very steep incline).

Mitch Connor

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I think that this may be a problem with your car. One shouldn't have to select 1st while the car is moving (unless in exceptional circumstances - e.g. moving slowly up a very steep incline).

If i clutch in a bit, i can stay in second, but i thought i should not be doing that either, cause basically it puts me out of gear.

Pherekydes

J_R wrote:

Hi,


OK, once again

At the bottom of my 1st post I said


My pupils DO NOT receive a mark for stopping in 6th.

So, should I inform the testers they are wrong ????

And I totally disagree with your statement you are not in control of the car when stopping in a high gear. You are actually more in control. By not changing down, you have your two hands on the wheel at all times, braking smoothly and regressively to come a gentle controlled stop.

They need to brake progressively! Remember, you may not be first in line at a stop sign. If the line of cars in front moves off before you stop, you'll be in the wrong gear (6th). Best practice: always have your car in the correct gear for the traffic conditions and speed of your vehicle.

J_R

Slow coach wrote:

They need to brake progressively! Remember, you may not be first in line at a stop sign. If the line of cars in front moves off before you stop, you'll be in the wrong gear (6th). Best practice: always have your car in the correct gear for the traffic conditions and speed of your vehicle.

If you wish to slow down progressively, you brake regressively. The slower the car is going the less braking required.

If you brake progressively, you are increasing braking pressure, so by time you stop you will have maximum pressure on the brakes. Should be other way 'round.

If you are in a high gear and 100% certain you are going to stop then see no reason whatsoever to change down. If there is a possibliity the obstruction may clear then go down through the gears as you approach.

unkel

J_R wrote:

If you are in a high gear and 100% certain you are going to stop then see no reason whatsoever to change down. If there is a possibliity the obstruction may clear then go down through the gears as you approach.

I agree. There's very little benefit in going down through the gears in that situation. As you said, an inexperienced driver is better off paying attention to traffic

Pherekydes

unkel wrote:

I agree. There's very little benefit in going down through the gears in that situation. As you said, an inexperienced driver is better off paying attention to traffic

A driver who can't change down while paying attention to traffic has no place on the road.

galah

what's wrong with coasting????

I hardly ever use the 3rd gear - only when shifting up, hardly ever when shifting down...Go straight from 4th to 2nd (after travelling with the clutch depressed for a while, and braking when coming up to a stop sign) - that's what I was taught in driving school...

Only use 1st gear when starting the car, you should not need it otherwise, really...

md99

galah wrote:

what's wrong with coasting????

A lot less grip/control with it...

It is a lot more comfortorable and easier in many cases though.

gaeilgegrinds

I failed because of coasting. Have cut that out now and am awaiting my second chance!

galah

md99 wrote:

A lot less grip/control with it...

It is a lot more comfortorable and easier in many cases though.

Hm, I don't get that - cause if the road starts to get slippery, I can always get into gear again (that's assuming that I know what I am doing, and have full control over my car at any time, obviously)...?

Can't believe they fail you for that kind of stuff...I mean, that's a minor issue compared to what else is going on on the roads in this country...

J_R

Hi,

Simply demonstration to show effects of coasting. No responsibility accepted for any mishap. etc

Drive to the top of the steepest hill in your area.

Put the car in 1st gear, take your feet off the pedals, let the car drive down the hill, steering nice gentle "S" curves in the road.

Now, drive back up again, start off in 1st gear but this time fully depress the clutch.

Let it gain momentum a little, and now attempt to do a few controlled "S" curves.

Should scare anyone into at least attempting to stop coasting around corners.

But coasting around corners and coasting to a stop are two totally different situations.

craichoe

Your gearing completely depends upon the vehicle your driving and the amount of weight in it. You change down gears to use the braking power of the engine.

In a 1.9 Diesel (Octavia, Golf, Passat or whatever) you can change down into first before your stop doing say 10-15 mph, the car will come down to about 3-5 mph and you clutch in then brake.

in a 1.4 Petrol, say an Astra or something, you can't do this. if you change down into 1st while moving the engine will rev quite high.

It completely depends upon the vehicle imho. You should know from driving your car/bike what its capable of and what braking / accelaration each gear will give you, this is standard on the Norwegian driving test as they have mountains with 45 degree slopes , you'd burn out your brakes if you didn't use your engine to brake.

Oh, to the guy who said drive in snow in 1st ... That is the silliest and most dangerous thing you can do. Think of it this way .. Can you get wheel spin in 3rd gear doing 20 miles and hour (Lads with the M5's shush) no ! ..

Or try driving a Jaguar XK8 Automatic in snow ... its a death trap ! the only thing you can do is stick it in second gear and pray

J_R

Hi,

belated reply, had book on loan.

From the IAM manual, "Pass your advanced Driving Test"

Coming to a Stop
The technique you use when coming to a complete halt after driving along in one of the higher gears often causes problems for candidates during the Advanced Driving Test. What you should do is best illustrated by imagining you are travelling along a suburban road in fifth gear at 40mph and traffic lights ahead turn red.

You slow down your car on the brakes alone, but there comes a point when the engine starts to labour. This is the moment when you de-clutch progressively, in order to prevent the engine straining the transmission and ultimately stalling. Normally it is a rule of advanced driving that you should not 'coast' with the clutch disengaged or the gearbox in neutral, but in this case you have to break this rule briefly by de-clutching so that you come to a halt without stalling the engine

They also say

Changing gears whils braking should be avoided because you reduce control of your car if you take one hand off the steering wheel

From "Roadcraft" - The Police Driver's Handbook.

Sometimes it is helpful to overlap braking with the gear change. do this by braking normally and changing gear towards the end of braking. The advantages of this are that it takes less time, contributes to vehicle stability and is often safer because your progress matches the expectations of other road users.

These advantages have to be weighed against the disadvantage that for part of the braking period both hands are not on the steering wheel, and the possibility that the technique could lead to late, excessive braking and rushed gear changes.

Above reasons why teach unnecessary to change down. Much much easier to simply brake, de-clutch.

Was wrong to use the word "Regressive" in previous post regarding braking. Neither of above manuals uses that word, both say brake "progressively" "

Roadcraft" says, for normal braking

Gently take up the initial free movement of the pedal.

Increase the pressure progressively as required.

Relax pedal pressure as unwanted road speed is lost.

Release the pedal just before stopping to avoid a jerking halt

italics bit where thought warranted the definition regressive.

unkel

Good post, J R

Release the pedal just before stopping to avoid a jerking halt

That's one of the things that took me a bit to master back in the day

peasant

yepp ..takes a bit of getting used to ...

but on the other hand my driving instructor used to say:

"at stop signs you have to bring the vehicle to a halt in such a way, that the head of the examiner slightly nods forward in an appreciative fashion"

In other words ...don't "creep" through them

unkel

peasant wrote:

"at stop signs you have to bring the vehicle to a halt in such a way, that the head of the examiner slightly nods forward in an appreciative fashion"

ROTFL