New civic type r video

drdre

This is a good video of both interior and exterior of the car.The performance is amazing.I didnt like the car before i seen this video.Would love to see it in real life
When is it going to be realeased in ireland?

http://www.pistonheads.tv/clip1161

jayok

The 2007 CTR is due here in March. It will be launched alongside the 3dr Civic (even though it's already available in the UK).

Not too sure about this car. The back is too confusing I think - too many angles or something. That aside it is supposed to be a good driving experience, but will it really sell here? For the price range that it's aimed at most people will buy a GTI.

I am a Honda fan, but I think the new CTR is a step away from the true Type-R (e.g. the ITR or even the NSX-R). It's too softly softly.

drdre

jayok wrote:

The 2007 CTR is due here in March. It will be launched alongside the 3dr Civic (even though it's already available in the UK).

Not too sure about this car. The back is too confusing I think - too many angles or something. That aside it is supposed to be a good driving experience, but will it really sell here? For the price range that it's aimed at most people will buy a GTI.

I am a Honda fan, but I think the new CTR is a step away from the true Type-R (e.g. the ITR or even the NSX-R). It's too softly softly.

Yes you are right the back looks abit weird.It is cmpared to a gti, intergra type R, i would prefer a candy white gti anyday or even a new shape integra.

lafors

drdre wrote:

Yes you are right the back looks abit weird.It is cmpared to a gti, intergra type R, i would prefer a candy white gti anyday or even a new shape integra.

Now this version of the type-r is what I want, say all you will about it being the 4 door but it looks beautiful....pity its only a concept. They used it as a safety car at the japanese gran prix this year afaik!

sneakyST

Evo Mag has a hot hatch shootout this month. CTR didnt get a great review. Some performance figures below. Tests were on a wet track.

0-100mph times:
Meg 16.0s
ST 16.3
VXR 17.4
CTR 17.5
Leon 17.7
GTI 17.9

0-100-0
Meg 21.0s
ST 21.4
VXR 22.4
CTR 22.7
Leon 22.9
GTI 23.0

Weight
CTR 1343kg
VXR 1348
Meg 1394
Leon 1395
GTI 1397
ST 1465

Lap times
Meg 1.36.05
VXR 1.38.25
Leon 1.40.0
GTI 1.41.00
CTR 1.41.45
ST 1.42.15

JHMEG

jayok wrote:

I am a Honda fan, but I think the new CTR is a step away from the true Type-R (e.g. the ITR or even the NSX-R). It's too softly softly.

First they took away the front double wishbones (previous model) and now the rear are gone (on regular model anyway), replaced with torsion beam (ie akin to running with your shoe laces tied together). Ok they did an excellent job with the McPherson struts on the last model, but anything other than a torsion beam (or leaf springs )...

Altho looking at sneakyST's table for a normally aspirated old 2.0 doesn't fare too badly against its turbo-charged competitors...

If only the rumours of a 2.4L 270bhp engine for this model were true (when's the facelift due? )

Plug

Throw in a golf r32 and it will sort them out!

jayok

I think this is marketing gone into overdrive. It's not so much of a Type-R but more a Type-Q (nearly an R).

Bulding on the success of the EP3 CTR they are trying to pitch this as a pure hot-hatch. The engine, as ever is impressive, but alas, only 201PS isn't really a whole lot compared to the competition. Actually if you take a look at www.redh.co.uk under the gallery section, you'll see a clip of Jenson Button taking the CTR for a spin and one of his remarks goes along the lines of it's not all about about, some manufactuers have gone the power route, the CTR is about the experience!

Well what a load of sh1te - that's an admisson really: ok, so we're no the fastest, quickest, but it's about the experience. Experience is fine, but to quote the Soichiro Honda "In a race competing for a split second, a tyre length on the finish line will decide whether you are a winner or a loser. If you understand that, you cannot disregard the smallest improvement" - I'm sorry but the vision is lost here, this car is not a improvement as a Racing car, but more an improved Daily Commute. I am not convinced it deserves the Type-R badge.

jayok

Plug wrote:

Throw in a golf r32 and it will sort them out!

Don't even get me started on VW. As for the R32 now there's a waste of effort, if you're committed to this buy an S3 instead.

drdre

lafors wrote:

Now this version of the type-r is what I want, say all you will about it being the 4 door but it looks beautiful....pity its only a concept. They used it as a safety car at the japanese gran prix this year afaik!

Yeah i would love that.i seen it on tv afew days ago and it looks much better than the civic pictured above. I love the shape and the look of it.It would be around 40-45k in ireland.:mad:

JHMEG

jayok wrote:

so we're not the fastest, quickest, but it's about the experience.

Jebus, that sounds like someone trying to justify an MX-5... scary stuff! :eek:

In fairness to the new CTR, I didn't think much of the old one till I saw it either. And of course it did very will in BTCC and elsewhere.

But then again the EP3-derived (DC5) Integra is considered to be the best FWD car ever made, and one of the finest driver's cars ever made, and to a large extent showed us what the EP3 CTR really should have been. Maybe the new Integra will be the same? Here's hoping.

Personally, rather than a 4-dr R, I'd prefer one based off the US-only 2-dr:

Plug

jayok wrote:

Don't even get me started on VW. As for the R32 now there's a waste of effort, if you're committed to this buy an S3 instead.

Thats more stupid:rolleyes:

TheBazman

jayok wrote:

Don't even get me started on VW. As for the R32 now there's a waste of effort, if you're committed to this buy an S3 instead.

Been looking at these motors a bit - the S3 is definitely faster once the turbo kicks in, and the interior is nicer, however the R32 is a good bit cheaper, 4 doors (practicality may not be an issue when buying these tho), and you have the DSG option. The 3.2 V6 sounds infinitely better.
Both fine cars but I'd go for the R32 personally

sneakyST

Plug wrote:

Throw in a golf r32 and it will sort them out!

You cant compare that lot with the R32 or S3, different cars (4wd, price etc.). However im not sure why anyone would outlay that much dosh for an S3 or R32 unless you intend to bring it to a track. More Evo test figures below R32 vs Focus ST
0-60 R32 wins (5.8 vs 6.7)
0-100 draw (16.3 each)
In gear times ST wins (in every gear/speed)
Bedford West Circuit R32 wins (1.32.55 vs 1.33.90).

FWD cars have traction off the line issues where as 4WD have transmission losses. Take your pick

Wibbs

jayok wrote:

I am a Honda fan, but I think the new CTR is a step away from the true Type-R (e.g. the ITR or even the NSX-R). It's too softly softly.

How right you are. The original ITR, NSX R and even the original CTR(jap only) were developed over a period of time from an existing car in the lineup which started with a chassis that had the kinks ironed out before the R-ification. When the DC5 integra R came out it was launched at the exact same time as the ordinary version. No development time to speak of and you can tell by driving the two cars back to back. The old DC2 just feels better , more "race car" like. If you want to know what a DC5 drives like, hire a gorilla suit and boxing gloves and drive the DC2. Since the originals have gone the replacements just feel "busy" without the feel or engineering of the original concept. Godammit!!! they put sound proofing in them now! FFS. Poofs.

layke

This car is not a Type R and never will be. Why oh why do car companies constantly **** up good cars. People bought a Type R because they were MENTAL, this new version is a shadow of the fomer greatness a Type R had.

I for one like the look, but under the hood makes me give it a massive thumbs down.

IrishRover

Wibbs wrote:

If you want to know what a DC5 drives like, hire a gorilla suit and boxing gloves and drive the DC2.

Haha PMSL

Since the originals have gone the replacements just feel "busy" without the feel or engineering of the original concept. Godammit!!! they put sound proofing in them now! FFS. Poofs.

Yeah, sure look at the weight of it quoted above. It's the market's fault though - people want all the extras in the car and 12 airbags and all the stuff in the dash and whatnot.

jayok

Plug wrote:

Thats more stupid:rolleyes:

Why?

JHMEG

OTOH, maybe they've softened up the "Type-R" to appeal to the GTI-brigade?

Didn't they have the "Bye Bye GTI, Hello Type-R" adverts a few years back?

Plug

sneakyST wrote:

figures below R32 vs Focus ST
0-60 R32 wins (5.8 vs 6.7)
0-100 draw (16.3 each)
In gear times ST wins (in every gear/speed)
Bedford West Circuit R32 wins (1.32.55 vs 1.33.90).

Here the topgear powerlap times between the two:
Golf R32 1.30.4
Ford Focus ST 1.34.9

Wibbs

IrishRover wrote:

Yeah, sure look at the weight of it quoted above. It's the market's fault though - people want all the extras in the car and 12 airbags and all the stuff in the dash and whatnot.

Nail on the head Sir, nail on the head. Hell, if you want an motorised armchair, buy a motorised armchair and be done with it. Whatever floats your boat. Though it's a singular pity you can't get a relatively practical new stripped down mad yoke any more. I'm one of those weirdos who reckoned that electric windows were a bad thing weightwise in the ITR.

For the price of the new "type r"(small r intentional) you could probably source an old NSX R. Depreciation is both a bitch and a wonderful thing. At this stage Honda are just trading on the R name like every manufacturer who copied the concept.

JHMEG

Hey, that's not to say that just because a car isn't raw it isn't good. I'm sure the DC5 (for example) is a lot more comfy than my DA6, which is as raw as a gone-septic gash from a rusty stanley knife (which I'm sure jayok will agree with) but I'm also sure that the DC5 handles an awful lot better too.

sneakyST

Plug wrote:

Here the topgear powerlap times between the two:
Golf R32 1.30.4
Ford Focus ST 1.34.9

ST was on a wet/damp track though

jayok

JHMEG wrote:

my DA6, which as raw a a gone-septic gash from a rusty stanley knife (which I'm sure jayok will agree with) but I'm also sure that the DC5 handles an awful lot better too.

I don't even know if the stanley knife metaphor is even good enough to demonstrate how raw the ride is. Having said that the raw ride is a whole lot of fun. It can be tiring on a long journey but when you want to trash things, a padded, noise reducing, climate controlled, automatic wiping (ffs), headlight levelling, armchair of a car in not the way to go - think Ariel Atom!

Biro

I was in a DC5. It certainly didn't seem very sound insulated, and seemed to still have the raw edge!

Wibbs

JHMEG wrote:

Hey, that's not to say that just because a car isn't raw it isn't good.

True enough, but in the type R concept, stripped down race car dynamics are the name of the game. In fact if you took a car that was dynamically brilliant and then started to strip down the weight, toughen up the suspension and chassis, it will be a better car. At least dynamically.

but I'm also sure that the DC5 handles an awful lot better too.

I'd hope so. I haven't driven a DA6 in anger, but comparing the DC2 to the DC5 is informative. While the chassis is arguably more modern the suspension is mcpherson strut rather than the unequal length wishbones in the DC2. The steering is woolier(not a great feature in the DC2 to start with). While the DC5 has more torque, which you would expect given the bigger engine, the DC2 still feels more like a drivers car with far less compromise. It's more tactile and more chuckable than it's replacementA more modern bigger engined Typ R should be vastly more competent to it's predecessor, but it's not. Not by a long shot.

Biro wrote:

I was in a DC5. It certainly didn't seem very sound insulated, and seemed to still have the raw edge!

I was thinking of buying one. They are a good car, but compared to the earlier one? Not for me at least. They put a bigger exhaust on the DC5, not for flow but for sound. Enough said.

cpoh1

Its funny some of the comments about the dc5 on here. Standard misconceptions about the car flying around. When I had my dc2 in the uk I went to have a test drive off a dc5 at a jap dealer. It was just as fast and fun to drive as my dc2 and handled just as well too. It had a better gear box and the diff was much tighter too when pushed. It wasn't as loud (does this mean raw to some people???) as the dc2 but was right up there on every other aspect. I was sold until I saw a black fd3 rx7 in the corner of the dealer and the rest is history as they say

A 10 year old car is never going to be as comfirtable as a brand new car. My older hondas all had rattles, squeeks and funny quirks but I loved them. The new civic has a k20 engine (same as the dc5 minus the jap nick nacks) and thats good enough for me, just because cars have moved on with the times doesnt mean theyre any less decent a car.

Wibbs

cpoh1 wrote:

Its funny some of the comments about the dc5 on here. Standard misconceptions about the car flying around. When I had my dc2 in the uk I went to have a test drive off a dc5 at a jap dealer. It was just as fast and fun to drive as my dc2 and handled just as well too. It had a better gear box and the diff was much tighter too when pushed.

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've owned both and while each has it's good points for me the DC2 is dynamically the better car. Hands down. The gearbox part I definitely don't see at all. Although if you had a high mileage DC2 then that may explain it as the linkages can get slack.

It wasn't as loud (does this mean raw to some people???) as the dc2 but was right up there on every other aspect.

Actually I reckoned the DC5 was louder, exhaust note wise anyway. Less rattly though. That said I was surprised with the DC2 R in that every one of them I've driven felt slightly different in that respect.

I was sold until I saw a black fd3 rx7 in the corner of the dealer and the rest is history as they say

I can see why

The new civic has a k20 engine (same as the dc5 minus the jap nick nacks) and thats good enough for me,

You see there's a problem for me. It's the same engine. You would think they might have come up with something a little more special.

just because cars have moved on with the times doesnt mean theyre any less decent a car.

Well if you mean getting fatter is moving on with the times...:D

Plug

sneakyST wrote:

ST was on a wet/damp track though

Oh it was actually. You don't own a ST by any chance:p

sneakyST

Plug wrote:

Oh it was actually. You don't own a ST by any chance:p

Ha now that you mention it:D

JHMEG

Wibbs wrote:

I haven't driven a DA6 in anger,

No comfort (at all: imagine a constant 4800RPM in 5th on the motorway, for an hour, and all the gears are waaayyy too short for practical driving), rattles like fsck, about 2mm suspension travel (stock) and scraping the exhaust off every speed ramp. In addition it's easily provoked into sliding on roundabouts, and spins the front wheels all too easily, especially in the wet.

Having said that it's super communicative, especially with the speed sensitive power steering. It may not have endless grip, but it lets you know well in advance what's going to happen next.

A blast to drive -- I'll be going back to it for 3 months from end of march -- but I'm sure there are better cars out there. Bit of a hung jury as to which is better, DA6 or DC2 (certainly the DC2 looks a whole lot better), but I thought it was fairly unanimous that the DC5 was head and shoulders above the DC2 in terms of handling and driver appeal.

Wibbs

JHMEG wrote:

Having said that it's super communicative, especially with the speed sensitive power steering. It may not have endless grip, but it lets you know well in advance what's going to happen next.

Sounds good. Too many cars are wooly that way. You only know somethings gone wrong when you're upside down in a ditch and your hair's on fire.

Bit of a hung jury as to which is better, DA6 or DC2 (certainly the DC2 looks a whole lot better),

You're having a laugh, right? Was this a drunk jury by any chance?

but I thought it was fairly unanimous that the DC5 was head and shoulders above the DC2 in terms of handling and driver appeal.

Only in Honda's marketing dept at the time. In head to head tests(there's a couple in youtube AFAIR) the dc2 is pretty much equal to the DC5 in pretty much everything and is considered to have far more feel and chuckability. In day to day I found driving the DC5 is more comfortable and the extra gear is very useful, but the feel is definitely lacking. Put it another way I'm driving a DC2 now(well not now, but you get the gist I suspect posting on a forum while driving garners some serious pointage...).

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Rowley Birkin QC

Off topic but does anyone know if there really is such a thing as an Accord Type R? got a taxi from heuston a few months back in an Accord with type R badges everywhere, had a kit too. She was definitely V-tech, but is there such a thing as a factory built R-Accord?

Wibbs

Yep there was; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Type_R#Accord_Type_R Nice car too.

cpoh1

Wibbs wrote:

Only in Honda's marketing dept at the time.

You'd be surprised mate. One or two friends of mine have all traded up to dc5's since they became cheaper and are more than happy with the swap. Whatever about performance issue (and i didnt see any), the dc5 is a much better looking car on the road, and this is coming from a ex dc2 owner.

Im getting the feeling that you are a biased dc2 owner and have never had a dc5 because from my test drive and from what friends who have traded up to these fellas they really are a cracking car and more than a match for the dc2

JHMEG

Wibbs wrote:

You're having a laugh, right? Was this a drunk jury by any chance?

http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=730
"Argued by many as the best model Integra ever"

I'm not a professional driver, and nor do I think my driving skills are way up there either. Therefore I have to rely on the professionals' opionions from time to time!

Wibbs

cpoh1 wrote:

the dc5 is a much better looking car on the road, and this is coming from a ex dc2 owner.

No I agree here. It is the better looking car. No doubt and certainly better looking IMHO than the recent Civics. I liked the 6 speed too. It's a more civilised drive as well. I just think the DC2 is the purer car. It's a more involved drive. Also with a bigger engine, more power, more gears and being more up to date you would have thought it would be far better, indeed head and shoulders above the older one, but it's not.

Then again, it seems we're both wrong if JHMEG is anything to go by.:D

JHMEG

Wibbs wrote:

Then again, it seems we're both wrong if JHMEG is anything to go by.:D

Ah, so you didn't read the article! The DC5 isn't included...

Wibbs

Oh yes I did...:D