Social stigma about weight?!

Burning Eclipse

Usually just read AH rather than post but I want opinions on this. Also, I put it in AH because I'm thinking about the issue socially rather than from a health perspective.

That said, mods feel free to move if ye deem it appropriate

Just this morning at work a colleague asked about another colleague’s sister in law, along the lines of how’s her weight these days. She was told that her thyroid was still giving her problems but both ladies made it clear that they thought it was a joke and she was just plain obese.

Why is it if a person is morbidly obese, or at least clinically obese, that it invokes a completely different reaction than that of a person with anorexia or bulimia?

Both physically show signs of a weight problem, but in my experience peoples opinions are vastly different on the two. If a person is obese they are seen as being a burden on the health system and inspire comments like “Why do they eat so much” or “Is it that hard to get some exercise”.

Conversely, if a person suffers (even the fact that it is referred to as suffers) from anorexia or bulimia, it would be horrendous to just fob them off with comments like “Eat some food for god’s sake” or “Put on some weight.” I am in no way belittling these conditions, merely pointing out the disparity between being very overweight and very underweight.

There is a huge social stigma attached to being overweight. Now I realise in a lot of cases a person is lazy/eats too much/whatever, but calling a spade a spade here, if you’re overweight the general consensus is that it’s your own fault. If you have a clinical condition causing you to be underweight, of course it’s not.

Opinions please, what does boards think?

Tar.Aldarion

In both cases it's usually the persons own fault.
Don't eat to feel good, eat to feel good.

Kingp35

The majority of overweight people do not have a medical condition. They are just plain lazy. You just cant defend laziness imo. I know it has nothing to do with me but it really does annoy me seeing people being so lazy and allowing themselves to become overweight.

Archeron

To be honest, there are so many people who are overweight now that it doesnt really register any more unless the person is Ricky Lake style obese and they can only clean themselves with a rag on a stick. Personally, I feel sympathy for those people more than anything. Like you say, people make throw away comments, but no-one can understand what is going on with that person. I have known a few people with eating disorders through my life, and they are all terribly sad. One girl I knew was bullemic and purged after eating anything, and she was actually quite heavy. This resulted in her hearing comments about her being fat, and I would guess that made the binge/purge cycle even worse.
Another girl I knew was quite apparently anorexic, and people commended her for her low weight. This girl was about average height and about 4 stone. I never really understood that because she was actually so thin she was quite unattractive. She drank lemon juice for her "lunch" and other women would ask her for diet tips (Tip 1. Never eat again). She ended up in hospital with a number of related problems.

Personally, I try not to pass judgement on anyone til I know more about their own personal circumstances. I even knew one guy who became anorexic, and he wasnt even fat to begin with. He became a skeleton and then disappeared from work for 6 months while he recovered. With these types of disorder in mind, I would hesitate in calling anybody something that could affect them in such a way; who knows what someone elses mental state is like??

I do think though that overweight people are certainly a target for "humorous" abuse, and I do hoenstly think that Boards can reflect that at times.

LundiMardi

Ok, well i can see where this thread is eventually going to lead...

But my 2c, technically, both conditions are the fault of the person involved. However, there are more psychological issues present that most people seem to just fob off.

Why don't you just eat more / why don't you just eat less etc etc

This IS easier said than done. There's a lot more to it than this. However, i don't expect many people here to agree with me.

seamus

You really need to compare like with like on this one.

Anorexia and Bulemia are given a sympthetic and medical excuse probably for two reasons:

1. They're immediately dangerous to your health. That is, the effects of denying your body it's nutrition become much more severe, much more quickly than overeating, and oversupplying your nutrition.

2. It's much harder to not eat than to overeat. That is, it's easy to "accidentally" eat too much (or sometimes too little). But to not eat (or to actively deny yourself food), is a much more difficult feat and automatically points to mental or emotional disorders of the person.

As I said though, you need to compare like with like. Saying that someone who's 3 stone overweight has a serious medical problem is a bit like saying that someone who's skin and bones has a serious medical problem. You don't know that for sure. However, it's patantly obvious that someone who's ten stone overweight has a serious problem, as is someone who's anorexic. It's usually the former two conditions that people take the piss out of - people being under- or over-weight, but not to the extreme.

Once you get to extremes of the Ricki Lake variety, slagging turns to pity or disgust. It's rare enough that you would hear someone take the piss out of a 25-stone man in a wheelchair, just as it's rare enough that someone will take the piss out of a 4-stone girl.

slipss

Personally I'd have the same opinion in both cases. If someone is fat and unhappy about being so I would think “Why do they eat so much” or “Is it that hard to get some exercise”. Similiarly in the vast amount of so called anorexics I'd think "Why don't they just cop on and eat something" or "Is it that hard to stop exercising as much". Although I'm sure some anorexics have a very serious condition of which they have little control over. I think a lot of them are just attention seeking 13 year olds that enjoy everyone making a fuss over them.

TerrorFirmer

that's a good point Archeron. So many people now carrying bellies that only the noticably large individuals catch your attention as 'fat'.

It also annoys me, as someone just said there, to see really fat people. I do not understand how anybody could let themselves go so badly. I was sitting beside a guy earlier who had at least 3 chins, and despite him wearing a shirt that I could most likely use a blanket it was still strained around his body, clinging to several rolls of fat. How much do you have to eat to get this fat? Being serious, to get that fat (about 20-22 stone) you'd have to eat about 3x what a regular person eats on a daily basis. How do you afford it?

Regarding medical conditions, less then 1% of obese people are obese due to medical conditions, so that's a reason why the debate doesn't hold much weight (excuse the pun) when people bring it up.

Nevyn

Easy cheap food is bad for you and fattening.
It is loaded with carbs and fats and msg.
You can easily buy large fozen pizza and a bag of chips for 1/2 the price of a chickenbreast/chop and salad.
Msg is posioning and addictive and in damn near everything.

Terry

12 chicken fillets for €10 from my local butcher.
The problem with the likes of salad related foods is that they have a very short shelf life. For someone living alone, this leads to a lot of wasted food.

ChRoMe

I used to think its a economic issue aswell. But one day in the supermarket I ended up doing the maths in my head walking around and realised that if you are cooking for more than two people its actually cheaper to cook something fresh and healthy.

To be honest I think a lot of the weight problem in ireland and other countries that experience it is from a lack of education rather than anything else. and well I suppose being lazy comes in to some degree also.

TerrorFirmer

Thaedydal wrote:

Easy cheap food is bad for you and fattening.
It is loaded with carbs and fats and msg.
You can easily buy large fozen pizza and a bag of chips for 1/2 the price of a chickenbreast/chop and salad.
Msg is posioning and addictive and in damn near everything.

That argument is a poor one, you can easily sort yourself out with healthy food for the same price. Most places now sell 10 chicken breasts for 10 euro, and the other ingredients are not liable to break the bank either in the overall scheme of things.

You must get your salads flown in from a very special place indeed that it comes to 200% the price of a full pizza and a bag of chips!

Nevyn

People have to be taught to cook and taught what good food is.

nesf

ChRoMe wrote:

I used to think its a economic issue aswell. But one day in the supermarket I ended up doing the maths in my head walking around and realised that if you are cooking for more than two people its actually cheaper to cook something fresh and healthy.

The more people you are cooking for the cheaper (per head) it is. It's the same with ESB bills (charting total electricity use against number of people in the household is just scary), Gas bills and so on.

Living on your own is expensive.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Thaedydal wrote:

People have to be taught to cook and taught what good food is.

Tell that to the lads who think we have the best education system in Western Europe....!

madhitchhiker

Good food?:rolleyes: What's that?:D

Overheal

Okay. Hi. Its another intro line from Overheal; the yank who lives on the paddy-rock. Howrya!

Having sit in an American restaurant in the last 2 years......ugh. Im sorry, but the social stigmatisms about the obese is apparent: It can be quite repulsive to see a kid with thighs the size of some entire children of the same age. And thats truth: Sitting down in a Pizzeria-buffet, I completely lost my appetite. don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect either Im overweight also.

The stigma I suppose at its roots (note: Im no psychologist; but I find the study interesting) stems from someone identifying a flaw in this person and they seek to detatch themselves from it. Jokes are obviously one way. Insults give the instigator a sense of superiority, which they find self gratifying at the time.

Being Overweight I did notice a reference on Wiki about a possible link between sleep and eating disorders: Ive always had issues going to sleep: even before I became overweight I would watch movies in bed as a kid until I was utterly exhausted. Probably the start of a long held sleep disorder; which some experts believe is a cause/symptom of obesity: opinions among intellectuals still differ on which it is.

Right now Im up all night from sleeping all day from recovering from working at a nightclub on sunday night/morning. I have class in a few hours. Thats my sleep disorder in a nutshell.

As for food; I can cook for myself. I got a fridge full of meat (Go Bosco Go!) and bread and lettuce and onions and....yum. But sure its often the case someone just doesnt have the patience for cooking. thats just how they roll. Tesco premade meals for example arent all entirely unhealthy when eaten and chosen correctly; people just need to be educated on a proper diet and trained to habitualise it. also consider its not always rewarding to cook for one.

Yes: education is a problem in Ireland especially when it comes to healthy living and all that. But sure; this is Boards.ie and if you havent check the Alexa.com figures lately its one of the most visited sites in the country. If you want to start a message about providing health education: start here.

Actually I'm pretty sure I'd have heard comments to the effect of "just eat more" about too-skinny people? Lower weight is ok but too skinny(unhealthy) is just sick, I can't see how anyone would compliment it

Having sit in an American restaurant in the last 2 years......ugh. Im sorry, but the social stigmatisms about the obese is apparent: It can be quite repulsive to see a kid with thighs the size of some entire children of the same age. And thats truth: Sitting down in a Pizzeria-buffet, I completely lost my appetite. don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect either Im overweight also.

Yeah, I was over there once, the amount of fat on their food and the size of their food portions is unreal...

sonners

My 2c:

I'm of average weight and height but due to being very sick last year I lost alot of weight. I knew I had lost too much (I was skin and bones) but I could do nothing about it until I had sorted out my health problems.

What I realised in this time is that people have no problem looking at you in disgust and openly calling you scrawny, skeleton, etc, etc. Yet if I were to turn around to these people and call them FAT there would be uproar:rolleyes:

people have double standards for skinny people and fat people but they need to realise that they are both problems which need to be fixed and not scorned at.

PS. I also got the whole-how did you do it...give me some tips-thing from girls. I think they thought I was taking the p1ss when I told em it had nearly killed me to do it (literally) :rolleyes:

Overheal

How come Anorecia and Bulimia is something you hear about Women as oppossed to Obesity being more general?

TerrorFirmer

Because even despite it becoming more frequent in males, it was and still is a psychological disorder that predominately females suffer from.

Madge

Thaedydal wrote:

People have to be taught to cook and taught what good food is.

I don't believe that for a second. Everyone knows what food is good and whats bad. It doesn't take a genius to know that a salad is better than chips and people know how to prepare both! Everyone knows that they're supposed to eat their '5 a day' of fruit and veg. I mean Tesco has put the nutritional value e.g amount of salt in the product and the rda (reccomended daily allowance) guidelines in a neat little table on the packaging of their foods. There's no excuse!

LundiMardi

Madge wrote:

I don't believe that for a second. Everyone knows what food is good and whats bad.

Just because people know the difference between chips and salad does NOT mean they know how to eat healthy...

How many women do you know went on that special K diet? I knew a lot... Do you think special k for breakfast, lunch and dinner is healthy?

You'd be amazed at how ignorant people are to how they should eat.

Madge

LundiMardi wrote:

Just because people know the difference between chips and salad does NOT mean they know how to eat healthy...

How many women do you know went on that special K diet? I knew a lot... Do you think special k for breakfast, lunch and dinner is healthy?

You'd be amazed at how ignorant people are to how they should eat.

I never mentioned diets. IMO, they don't work.
Eating healthy and having a balanced diet incorporating a variety of foods esp. fruit and veg is a way of life.
FYI, the 'special K diet' is to replace 2 of your daily meals a day with a special K cereal. I agree that its probably not that healthy. I wouldn't say people who follow such diets are ignorant, as you say, I think they're stupid and / or desperate.

LundiMardi

Madge wrote:

I never mentioned diets. IMO, they don't work.
Eating healthy and having a balanced diet incorporating a variety of foods esp. fruit and veg is a way of life.
FYI, the 'special K diet' is to replace 2 of your daily meals a day with a special K cereal. I agree that its probably not that healthy. I wouldn't say people who follow such diets are ignorant, as you say, I think they're stupid and / or desperate.

Well ''normal'' people don't really see a difference between the words 'diet' and 'eating healthy'.

Stark

Overheal wrote:

How come Anorecia and Bulimia is something you hear about Women as oppossed to Obesity being more general?

With men, they can manifest themselves in more subtle ways. A male bulimic will often "purge" by over-exercising, whereas women are more likely to go the vomiting route. One is a lot easier to ignore.

Imo, anorexia is probably less common in men due to the differences in body ideals between men and women. For women, thin is society's definition of "beautiful". For men, being buff is the ideal. Again, a guy suffering from body image problems is likely to spend all his time in the gym.

There's also the stigma that means men with eating disorders are less likely to seek help.

estariol

being obese is just unnatural and as was pointed out earlier the main reason you can't compare overweight and underweight clinical states is that one requires immense discipline and the other a complete lack of discipline. Both are obviously a tragic for the sufferer, but imo greed and opulence feeds most obesity and not -ive self image, that only comes later when you see the results.

More worrying is the surge in grossly fat children, they are screwed in later life condemned to a lhort life riddled with health problems and the main culprit is crap parents, any parent who would allow their child to become obese is imo guilty of child abuse and not fit to be a parent. That will probably draw quite some criticism but before the knives come out google the research and see the implications of this bad parenting.

So yes obesity disgusts me for what it implies and not the individual.

estariol

being obese is just unnatural and as was pointed out earlier the main reason you can't compare overweight and underweight clinical states is that one requires immense discipline and the other a complete lack of discipline. Both are obviously a tragic for the sufferer, but imo greed and opulence feeds most obesity and not -ive self image, that only comes later when you see the results.

More worrying is the surge in grossly fat children, they are screwed in later life condemned to a lhort life riddled with health problems and the main culprit is crap parents, any parent who would allow their child to become obese is imo guilty of child abuse and not fit to be a parent. That will probably draw quite some criticism but before the knives come out google the research and see the implications of this bad parenting.

So yes obesity disgusts me for what it implies and not the individual.

cooperguy

estariol wrote:

being obese is just unnatural and as was pointed out earlier the main reason you can't compare overweight and underweight clinical states is that one requires immense discipline and the other a complete lack of discipline. Both are obviously a tragic for the sufferer, but imo greed and opulence feeds most obesity and not -ive self image, that only comes later when you see the results.

More worrying is the surge in grossly fat children, they are screwed in later life condemned to a lhort life riddled with health problems and the main culprit is crap parents, any parent who would allow their child to become obese is imo guilty of child abuse and not fit to be a parent. That will probably draw quite some criticism but before the knives come out google the research and see the implications of this bad parenting.

So yes obesity disgusts me for what it implies and not the individual.

Well im not going to criticise that anyway. Parents who allow their kids to become obese and do nothing to stop it ARE most definatly guilty of child abuse (it is obviously different if the child has a medical condition). They are condemning them to a much shorter more unhealthy life being riddled with diseases and medical problems.

justsomebloke

Madge wrote:

I don't believe that for a second. Everyone knows what food is good and whats bad.

hahaha, ah man that made me laugh. seriously you should go over to the fitness forum and see some of the sh1t people post up as having a healthy diet. Just cause people people can tell the difference between 2 different food types about which is healthier doesn't mean they actually have a clue about how to put a good diet together.
Also the fact that you said that special k diet "probably" wasn't that healthy would suggest that you probably don't even know how to put a good diet together for yourself.

The lack of dietary education is in my opinion one of the major crimes of our (and most other) government. This coupled with the over the top advice given out by tv shows like "you are what you eat" just compounds the amount of misinformation out there

Black Swan

Well some young people have very high metabolism rates, and if they combine this with strenuous exercise, then they can have underweight problems that are neither bolemic or anorexic. I'm underweight and in a physically demanding sport, so my GP hounds me to add more weight, which I am trying to do. But I won't add fat just to get her off my case, or to satisfy some gossip that wrongly thinks I am starving myself or upchucking my meals to stay thin.

The issue of concern here is that it's very easy for someone to sit in the peanut gallery and point at someone in the distance they really don't know, and then rush to judgement about their character.

Madge

jsb wrote:

Just cause people people can tell the difference between 2 different food types about which is healthier doesn't mean they actually have a clue about how to put a good diet together.

Erm, yeah right! :rolleyes: Everyone knows you need to have 3 main meals a day- breakfast, lunch and dinner. As I said people know what food is good or bad. E.g. coco pops Vs porridge for breakfast or green veg, brown rice and grilled chicken Vs a big pizza or fry for dinner.

jsb wrote:

Also the fact that you said that special k diet "probably" wasn't that healthy would suggest that you probably don't even know how to put a good diet together for yourself.

? How so?

jsb wrote:

This coupled with the over the top advice given out by tv shows like "you are what you eat" just compounds the amount of misinformation out there

What is wrong with the advice given out on that show?

justsomebloke

Madge wrote:

Erm, yeah right! :rolleyes: Everyone knows you need to have 3 main meals a day- breakfast, lunch and dinner.

actually no most people would suggest that you eat 6 small meals a day as oppose to just 3 meals a day this way you help to keep your metabolism higher

Madge wrote:

As I said people know what food is good or bad. E.g. coco pops Vs porridge for breakfast or green veg, brown rice and grilled chicken Vs a big pizza or fry for dinner.

yes but you are just using extremes to varify a point, would a lot of people understand why they should eat whole grain products like pasta, bread and rice as oppose to ordinary pasta, bread and rice. Also would people know rather then just eating their "greens" that they should know that they should try and get vegetables and fruits of as many different colours as possible.

Madge wrote:

? How so?

well you suggested that it was only "probably" unhealthy as in you weren't completely sure. the problem is that with the special k diet you have 2 portions which at 117calories per portion means that between waking and your dinner you are only getting 234calories and then if say your dinner is at most 500-600 calories, your daily calorific intake is at most 834calories, chances are it is going to be a lot less. As the average daily calorific intake for a woman is approx 2000 this means that you are going to be servirly undereating. Cause of this your body is going to go into starvation mode and is going to use a higher proportion of muscle as an energy source. This loss of muscle then leads to your metabolism drastically decreasing so when you do come off the diet and start eating properly again you are going to put on more weight and probably end up with a higher BF% then when you started

Madge wrote:

What is wrong with the advice given out on that show?

well for one the presenter got her doctorate from a correspondence college that also gave a doctorate to a dead cat, not knocking her certificate but I think the creditability of the college might not be the best

dame

Also, half the crap Gillian McKeith tells people to eat can only be bought in a health-food shop and comes in a little jar with her name on it! Things like this switch people off. Not everyone wants to spend a fortune to follow all the various superfoods that "experts" say they "should" be eating.

There's the whole organic is best, everything else is crap debate too. Organic happens to be more expensive and the message people are subliminally getting is that non-organic is absolute crap and you'de be as well off eating cardboard cos as it'll have about as healthy as that pesticide-ridden, artifically ripened muck. It is easy to see why people get confused and then believe what they see on a packet with ready-made food that says "Healthy Eating", "lowers cholesterol" or whatever.

I agree that people can be very judgemental and that it is not politically correct to call people fat but seems to be acceptable to complain at and about people who are too thin. I'm a size ten myself but I've a friend who's taller and thinner than me (she's 5"8' and all her family are tall and slim) and she wears size 8 clothes. She eats mostly healthy food but never denies herself anything nice either. I've seen her eat twice as much as other girls when we've been out and these girls comment that she "must be bulimic or something". She also gets comments when out shopping from complete strangers, things like "eat something FFS" or "anorexic b1tch", although surprise surprise, those comments usually come from fat people! There's definitely a double-standard there - you'd probably get a gang forming to lynch you if you called a woman out shopping "fat"!

cooperguy

Madge wrote:

What is wrong with the advice given out on that show?

Dont get me started with that woman. If anybody can tell me a scientific reason to look at peoples sh1t that cant be found out much easier another way please tell me, it just a tacky gimmick to make people watch.

Not to mention the crap she says using the odd sciency word to make it look credible but as soon as you actually look at it, it turns out to be complete and utter tripe.

nesf

dame wrote:

Also, half the crap Gillian McKeith tells people to eat can only be bought in a health-food shop and comes in a little jar with her name on it!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0,,2011098,00.html

Enjoy

Terry

nesf wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/story/0,,2011098,00.html

Enjoy

Call her the Awful Poo Lady, call her Dr Gillian McKeith PhD: she is an empire, a multi-millionaire, a phenomenon, a prime-time TV celebrity, a bestselling author. She has her own range of foods and mysterious powders, she has pills to give you an erection, and her face is in every health food store in the country.

Developed with her husband in mind, perhaps?

nesf

Terry wrote:

Developed with her husband in mind, perhaps?

Someone married her? :eek:

Terry

I've no idea. I was just guessing.
I'm just going to remove that link though because of this (from the same source).

But those who criticise McKeith have reason to worry. McKeith goes after people, and nastily. She has a libel case against the Sun over comments they made in 2004 that has still not seen much movement. But the Sun is a large, wealthy institution, and it can protect itself with a large and well-remunerated legal team. Others can't. A charming but - forgive me - obscure blogger called PhDiva made some relatively innocent comments about nutritionists, mentioning McKeith, and received a letter threatening costly legal action from Atkins Solicitors, "the reputation and brand-management specialists". Google received a threatening legal letter simply for linking to - forgive me - a fairly obscure webpage on McKeith.

She has also made legal threats to a fantastically funny website called Eclectech for hosting a silly animation of McKeith singing a silly song, at around the time she was on Fame Academy.

Most of these legal tussles revolve around the issue of her qualifications, though these things shouldn't be difficult or complicated. If anyone wanted to check my degrees, memberships, or affiliations, then they could call up the institutions, and get instant confirmation: job done. If you said I wasn't a doctor, I wouldn't sue you; I'd roar with laughter.

If you contact the Australasian College of Health Sciences (Portland, US) where McKeith has a "pending diploma in herbal medicine", they say they can't tell you anything about their students. When you contact Clayton College of Natural Health to ask where you can read her PhD, they say you can't. What kind of organisations are these? If I said I had a PhD from Cambridge, US or UK (I have neither), it would only take you a day to find it.

But McKeith's most heinous abuse of legal chill is exemplified by a nasty little story from 2000, when she threatened a retired professor of nutritional medicine for questioning her ideas.

Shortly after the publication of McKeith's book Living Food for Health, before she was famous, John Garrow wrote an article about some of the rather bizarre scientific claims she was making. He was struck by the strength with which she presented her credentials as a scientist ("I continue every day to research, test and write furiously so that you may benefit ..." etc). In fact, he has since said that he assumed - like many others - that she was a proper doctor. Sorry: a medical doctor. Sorry: a qualified conventional medical doctor who attended an accredited medical school.

Just copy and paste if you want to read it.

EDIT: nesf, I can't remove the url tags from your post. could you try to remove them, please?
EDIT: julep Terry, naughty that editing my post...

nesf

Terry wrote:

EDIT: nesf, I can't remove the url tags from your post. could you try to remove them, please?

You have to "Go advanced" and then uncheck the box saying "Automatically parse links in text".

Terry

Ahh, I see. I was clicking the "remove uRL" thingy.


Edit: Indeed. Actually I was thinking that instead of posting we could just edit and re-edit the same post over and over again. What do you think? -nesf

Black Swan

Terry wrote:

Edit: Indeed. Actually I was thinking that instead of posting we could just edit and re-edit the same post over and over again. What do you think? -nesf

Why not just resurrect this posting topic from the board archives, (which seems to repeat itself every few months), and just cut and paste your previous answers to the new post, and delete the former? Well, that would solve the problem of this repetitious and weighty theme, while at the same time thinning down what would otherwise be a fat piece of data storage?

Terry

Terry wrote:

Ahh, I see. I was clicking the "remove uRL" thingy.


Edit: Indeed. Actually I was thinking that instead of posting we could just edit and re-edit the same post over and over again. What do you think? -nesf

Message recieved. Point taken. Sorry.

nesf

Terry wrote:

Message recieved. Point taken. Sorry.

There was no point to be taken, I was just pulling the piss....

nesf

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Why not just resurrect this posting topic from the board archives, (which seems to repeat itself every few months), and just cut and paste your previous answers to the new post, and delete the former? Well, that would solve the problem of this repetitious and weighty theme, while at the same time thinning down what would otherwise be a fat piece of data storage?

That sounds far too much like real work...

Alf. A. Male

AMK93 wrote: »

What are your thoughts on the song?

I think if the best home you could find for it is a 7 year-old thread, that says all I need to know about it. I won't hold my breath for the difficult second album.

ThunbergsAreGo

I have been unable to exercise due to back issues for the last three months and have not put on any weight.

You are what you eat, people just need to have a bit more care and as mentioned cook for themselves. It doesnt have to cost a bomb, Aldi/Lidl/Dunnes etc. all have specials on vegtables weekly/bi-weekly