BOD POC captaincy debate settled

Diamondmaker

I am in no doubt that BOD is now definitely and has always been the right choice as captain.
BOD will step up his game and lead by pure body on the line bone crunching example when the occasion demands.
POC, of late has shown an inability to switch on to the required level and worse still I feel we lacked leadership at times yesterday.

POC should of had a typical BOD 9/10 performance yesterday as the occasion demanded it.

Full stregnth Ire led again by BOD will be a sight to behold, as we ravage England. This will be a good day.:cool:

buck65

Could this be a bit of opportunist Leinster haymaking in the wake of such a crushing defeat?
Moderators ready....

Amz

If you've nothing useful to contribute, don't bother posting.

Diamondmaker

buck65 wrote:

Could this be a bit of opportunist Leinster haymaking in the wake of such a crushing defeat?
Moderators ready....

What The FFFF!!!

No it was obvious BOD was missed yesterday. BOD has a history of playong out of his skin on big match days. He is Irelands most consistent performer over the years.
BOD has quiet games but rarely when we really need him.
POC had an average game and has had plenty recently.

To suggest what you have is just pathetic.:mad:

Its been a topic before when they were A. both out ie 2 years ago Autimn test or B they are oth in.
This is the 1st game recently where POC has stood in and by his own admission last week he wanted to step up for this game.
He didnt and Leinster bias aside no one can deny that BOD would have stepped up to 110% for this game. he jas never failed to perform when required on the big game.
POC is proiving of late with Ire and Munster and down under with Lions that he is not as consistent and therfore not the best choice for captain In MY opionion.

It is impossible to suggest that POC steps up as often and regularly as BOD.

This point is open to intelligent debate and not your pathetic riling that serve no constructive or interesting pupose.

Nukem

Amz wrote:

If you've nothing useful to contribute, don't bother posting.

Chuckle - is that to both of them.

No serious I think your right and POC did look a little outta his depth. Think whne he decided ROG should go for the kick in the last few mins all he could think of was that wasted 3 points in Thomond Vs Leicester. Gotta plague the mind in those situations. Don't think I woulda have told him any different. think BOD and POC should not be captains. Two exceptional players but take the burden of making decisions from them and let them do what they do best.

Give the captaincy to the likes of Easterby or Hickie or someone. Easterby caus he has the experience. Food for thought

Sangre

After such a spanking in the first 30 minutes, I thought it took a team with great inner-confidence to come back and actually take the lead. We could have easily have 20 points on us by half time. The words of POC and Shaggy must have helped.

No doubt you would be singing his praises had France not pipped it at the end.

No serious I think your right and POC did look a little outta his depth. Think whne he decided ROG should go for the kick in the last few mins all he could think of was that wasted 3 points in Thomond Vs Leicester. Gotta plague the mind in those situations. Don't think I woulda have told him any different. think BOD and POC should not be captains. Two exceptional players but take the burden of making decisions from them and let them do what they do best.

Give the captaincy to the likes of Easterby or Hickie or someone. Easterby caus he has the experience. Food for thought

Going for the kick at the end was 100% the right choice. There isn't even a debate about this. It took away any chance of a DG or Penalty which even a bad team can squeeze out against a good team. Anything else would have been retarded.

Similarly the captaincy to Easterby or Hickie? Firstly their selection isn't guaranteed (esp. not Easterby's) and Hickie is too old to be taking the reigns now. Not to mention the blow to the team and player's confidence of stripping the current captain.

Diamondmaker

Nukem wrote:

.

Give the captaincy to the likes of Easterby or Hickie or someone. Easterby caus he has the experience. Food for thought

Nah POC is definitely the man for no2 I think, But I have seen enogh and I am convinced that BOD is the right choice he is inspitational all the time.

As good as POC is he has too many "normal" games. Leamey and DOC of late have outshoe him.

I would be very interested in hering any opionions on why POC should be captain however, I honeslty just cant see it.

buck65

If you just can't see Paul as captain why would you have him as No. 2?
Brian was injured yesterday so Paul stood in, as was suggested earlier if Ireland held out for the last play this wouldnt be even discussed right now. I don't think Paul made too many bad choices yesterday as Captain, the team were obviously nervous but became very focussed, motivated and together. With O Driscoll on board we would have won not because of his leadership because of his rugby ability.

The Rooster

Personally I dont think POC should be vice captain of Ireland or captain of Munster. There is no debate about the captaincy of Ireland, there should be a debate about those other two positions though.

Not taking penalties (i.e. we played on rather than killed it) on two occassions earlier in the second half were crucial captaincy mistakes.

Diamondmaker

buck65 wrote:

If you just can't see Paul as captain why would you have him as No. 2?

I cant see POC as captain cos I think BOD is better. I can see POC as no.2 cos I believe he is the best choice outside of BOD.
Thats simple and a fair enough thought I believe.

Eoin

Sangre wrote:

Going for the kick at the end was 100% the right choice. There isn't even a debate about this. It took away any chance of a DG or Penalty which even a bad team can squeeze out against a good team. Anything else would have been retarded.

I can't believe that people think otherwise. I think the only time that going for touch could have been justified is if ROG thought his kick could land short, and immediately give possession to France.

zAbbo

I think BOD is better overall, especially his dealing with Refs, POC is a leader, and as such is captain of the forwards in a sense, while BOD captains the backs.

I've no problem with either leading our national team.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Chucky the tree

Where was BOD last year for the HEC semi against Munster? Or did he occasion not demand it? Where was BOD for the french match last year? Even the Welsh match for the grandslam. Three huge games in which teams he has captained have been completely blown away and have failed to turn up.

athtrasna

I can't believe what I'm reading! Never have I admired a sportsman like POC yesterday. He single-handedly took responsibility for the French try with his We failed to collect - no I failed to collect from the restart - comment. Fair play to the guy for standing tall.

I don't think BOD would have made any difference yesterday, and I can't see him taking the blame either.

Personally I prefer a captain to be a forward, like Woody was. Now there was a motivator!




......Athtrasna settles down and waits for attack of BOD fans......

Sangre

Chucky the tree wrote:

Where was BOD last year for the HEC semi against Munster? Or did he occasion not demand it? Where was BOD for the french match last year? Even the Welsh match for the grandslam. Three huge games in which teams he has captained have been completely blown away and have failed to turn up.

You think the results would have been any different with another captain?

Amz

This is pointless.

None of us can say with certainty what difference BOD being there would have made.

athtrasna cop on to yourself, you're not a clairvoyant and you never will be ... If you were you'd have gotten match tickets yesterday

Chucky the tree

Sangre wrote:

You think the results would have been any different with another captain?

Nope, personnally i dont mind BOD as captain. I dont think its possible to say who is a better captain. I just feel some of the love being shown for BOD was a bit OTT.

athtrasna

Amz wrote:

athtrasna cop on to yourself, you're not a clairvoyant and you never will be ... If you were you'd have gotten match tickets yesterday

Maybe I already knew the result!

Diamondmaker

I agree it is a silly tpoic and was not meant at a jab at POC by any means.
just expressing my opinion that POC has not been, and undeniably to POC fans even, been at his best for quite some time now.
Also after the lions tour the Kiwis were going "what all the hype about this guy". ( the AB tour was much better obviously )
The guy has set huge standards and worryingly does not seem to be at his peak right now. I was really looking forward to this game as he said himself prior to the match he was hoping to get an extra bit out of captaincy.
His accountability for the try was of course admirable but I want to see more from POC. These days in the pack it is all Hayes Horan Leamy and Wallace getting plaudits....

The captaincy debate always was a stupid one......:D I should have known better than to start it!

GreenHell

POC didn't do anything wrong as captain on sunday. BOD was missed because of his defensive work. It is actually more worrying that our midfield defense becomes so sub standard without him.

POC form of late has been disappointing, because we all know what he is capable of, yet still for a guy who is playing below expectations, he is still as solid as a rock.

Hugh_C

GreenHell wrote:

It is actually more worrying that our midfield defense becomes so sub standard without him.

That may be somethign to do with playing Horgan out of position at centre. He was disappointing, for me.

Sangre

Actually it more to due to the fact that both D'arcy and Horgan were out of position.

Inquitus

BO'D is an average captain at best, PO'C would be better, watching some of Leinsters more embarassing HC Capitulations over the years again would re-enforce this view.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Trojan

Actually I think this is more about the forwards captains vs backs captains than the individuals involved.

As a forward I don't like to admit it: I think that because the backs are not chasing the ball every time they're off it they have a little more time to think about things logically and are able to focus better. Forwards tend to get more caught up in the emotions of their phsyical contest and being constantly on the move gives less time to think.

(I haven't expressed my point particularly well here but it is 5.25am )

uberwolf

I understand you trojan, what you're saying is you grunts shouldn't be trusted to think straight

RuggieBear

hey the prodigal son returns.

Diamondmaker

uberwolf wrote:

I understand you trojan, what you're saying is you grunts shouldn't be trusted to think straight

After a week of politics on that damn GSTQ thread some real rugby talk starts again !!

A back also has a better view and perspective to the whole opposition unit and how they are liing up etc.........IMO

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RuggieBear

...or kicking the poxy ball straight into touch so us poor grunts have to go and win the bloody thing back

athtrasna

Two words - Keith Wood! Arguably the best captain Ireland ever had. There was just this air of authority and inspiration that he exuded, you could even feel it in the stands!

Trojan

And imagine if Keith Wood hadn't had his head buried in the bottom of every ruck, how much more authority and inspiration he could have exuded

Yeah uberwolf, us brain dead donkeys should realise what we're good for

RuggieBear

Trojan wrote:

And imagine if Keith Wood hadn't had his head buried in the bottom of every ruck, how much more authority and inspiration he could have exuded

Ah but that's the thing....Wood spent most of the time fannying about out with the backs.

Peter B

RuggieBear wrote:

Ah but that's the thing....Wood spent most of the time fannying about out with the backs.

Very true, many people used to give out when he would stand out near the fullback. On kickoffs he would stand in the No. 8 position (where Leamy stands when we're kicking off, watching the kick to touch)

Great player but much easier to shine as a forward standing out in the backs.

shmaido

Sangre wrote:

Actually it more to due to the fact that both D'arcy and Horgan were out of position.

I agree, I think it was a mistake to play both out of position, should have played trimble second centre, he is a centre after all and a good one at that, back line would have been status quo but for one change which I feel would have made a real difference.

back on topic though I don't think that loss should be seen as any reflection of POC's leadership, if anything it was his leadership and those around him that woke us up out of our croke park stupor and kept us in the game and nearly won it for us. What lost us the game I feel was the opening 20 mins, our slow starts are becoming somewhat of a trademark and that my friends is niether the fault of BOD or POC, that is the fault of EOS. One of the MAIN jobs of any coach is to make sure the team is in the right mind set and totally fired up for the job at hand, EOS seems to fail at this repeatedly. You might say it was the hieghtened ocasion but ireland seem to do this even when the occasion is an average affair, like against wales in the previous game where both BOD and POC were on the field.

I think EOS had a major role in our defeat, maybe not the sole reason but a bigger role than we credit him for and I think its his leadership we should really be questioning. The clock is ticking on this teams life span and I really don't want to see our greatest team (maybe of all time) to be wasted under such a mediocre coach.

Rant over.