New bill poses threat to Irish democracy

Rebeller

The European Communities Bill 2006 is currently working its way through the houses of the Oireachtas. If passed this Bill will confer Michael McDowell with the power to unilaterally (without any parliamentary endorsement) introduce legislation via a statutory instrument, impose fines and create indictable offences involving imprisonment.

Admittedly this Statutory Instrument legislative power is limited to laws to give effect to EU legislation but considering the supremacy of EU law over the Irish Constitution and legislation this could effectively mean rule by decree by a government that already considers itself unaccountable to the people of the State from whom they are supposed to derive their authority.

Conspiracy theorist it may be, but following on from their previous attempt to subvert our democracy (electronic voting) I think the time has come to get them out.

Bill in PDF format can be downloaded here

Scroll down to "First Stage" and click on the PDF icon to download the file.

Anyone else have serious concerns about this proposed legislation?

InFront

I'm not aware of all the implications the bill would have, the only aspect that I'd like to know more about is why Ireland must allow for the creation of indictable Offences from Europe that would usually require support from domestic legislation.

I am aware that Ireland does, obviously, get a say in the laws that are made in Europe, but it is the influence of Ireland's voice that I would be a bit apprehensive about, and the fact that the Minister for Justice could endow EU Law to have full effect and supercede(?) or change Irish Legislation or statutory instruments with Ministerial discretion. What about making the legislative process as visible as possible?

The enactment of the bill would allow a speedier, hassle-free implementation of EU law, but is there not something (deservedly or not) comforting about having legislation debated in the Oireachtas, as opposed to what seems to me to be writing Europe/ the minister for Justice a blank cheque (...or maybe a postal order)?

Hobbes

Based on some of the laws he has passed so far, how is this any different then what we have now?

GusherING

Arguably, any statutory instrument poses a threat to Irish Democracy and there are countless amounts used in everyday life. If you're opposed to this one, then arguably you should be opposed to all of them.

InFront

Well presumably the point of statutory instruments is for the efficient work of the Oireachtas and intended for minor contributions from the Minister. When it comes to introducing law decided from Europe it possibly taken on another dimension. Unfortunately people do feel detached from the European Parliament, and I think this bill, if anything, would only add to that.

Is there really a backlog over debating legislation? I would have thought not. Wasn't there one day quite recently where the Dail had to be adjourned because there was no legislation before it? Anyway, this is only really a minor event it seems, I doubt it will be of huge significance.

The Rome Rule that we thought would never happen?
Does it leave us open to the possibility of "Ranelagh Rule"?:)

Rebeller

GusherING wrote:

Arguably, any statutory instrument poses a threat to Irish Democracy and there are countless amounts used in everyday life. If you're opposed to this one, then arguably you should be opposed to all of them.

Statutory Instruments are only meant to "fill in the gaps" so to speak. It is the role of Primary Legislation (i.e Bills debated and voted on in the houses of the Oireachtas) to set policy in specific areas and lay down guidelines for the implementation of said policy.

SI (Statutory Instruments) are then used to expand on the general outline set down in the legislation (fill in the gaps). SI are not intended as a (primary) source of law as our constitution clearly states that the sole law-making body in the State is the Parliament/Legislature and not the Executive (whether this is a true reflection of how the system actually works is a question for another thread!).

The purpose of reserving the law-making power for the legislature/parliament is so that proposals of law can be aired by our democratic representatives who can highlight areas of concern and propose amendments. Public debate and participation is after all an essential feature of any democratic state.

The European Communities Bill 2006 proposes to endow the Minister with the power to create offences so as to give effect to and ensure compliance with EU legislation.

Up until now EU law has had to be transposed into Irish law through Acts of the Oireachtas (legislation) before it can have effect within the domestic sphere.

What this Bill amounts to is indeed "Rome Rule" (as alluded to by InFront above) whereby there will be no opportunity for debate on any future draconian, federalist law coming down the road from Brussels.

My own view is that this is an attempt to stifle the democratic process so that when the EU Constitution is finally ratified the more suspect provisions of that document (for instance constitutional protection of the right of private enterprise to interfere in every aspect of society allowing private control of Education, Health Care, Water, Social Security etc) can be forced on the Irish people by decree.

I for one will be contacting my local representatives to oppose this Bill.

I would recommend anyone else who values the participatory, democratic nature of our State to do the same.

As for those who argue (including the Government) that this Bill is simply intended as making more efficient the implementation of EU law I would argue that facilitation and efficiency are never justification for eroding essential aspects of our participatory democracy.

What next? Abolishing the presumption of innocence in criminal trials and reducing the burden of proof necessary to convict and individual of a serious crime? What about allowing for the statement of a Garda to the effect that a person is guilty of a crime to be sufficient for a conviction?

All of the above would certainly facilitate and improve conviction rates for serious crime. Would it however be justified?

lostexpectation

Rebeller wrote:

Statutory Instruments are only meant to "fill in the gaps" so to speak. It is the role of Primary Legislation (i.e Bills debated and voted on in the houses of the Oireachtas) to set policy in specific areas and lay down guidelines for the implementation of said policy.

SI (Statutory Instruments) are then used to expand on the general outline set down in the legislation (fill in the gaps). SI are not intended as a (primary) source of law as our constitution clearly states that the sole law-making body in the State is the Parliament/Legislature and not the Executive (whether this is a true reflection of how the system actually works is a question for another thread!).

The purpose of reserving the law-making power for the legislature/parliament is so that proposals of law can be aired by our democratic representatives who can highlight areas of concern and propose amendments. Public debate and participation is after all an essential feature of any democratic state.

The European Communities Bill 2006 proposes to endow the Minister with the power to create offences so as to give effect to and ensure compliance with EU legislation.

Up until now EU law has had to be transposed into Irish law through Acts of the Oireachtas (legislation) before it can have effect within the domestic sphere.

What this Bill amounts to is indeed "Rome Rule" (as alluded to by InFront above) whereby there will be no opportunity for debate on any future draconian, federalist law coming down the road from Brussels.

My own view is that this is an attempt to stifle the democratic process so that when the EU Constitution is finally ratified the more suspect provisions of that document (for instance constitutional protection of the right of private enterprise to interfere in every aspect of society allowing private control of Education, Health Care, Water, Social Security etc) can be forced on the Irish people by decree.

I for one will be contacting my local representatives to oppose this Bill.

I would recommend anyone else who values the participatory, democratic nature of our State to do the same.

As for those who argue (including the Government) that this Bill is simply intended as making more efficient the implementation of EU law I would argue that facilitation and efficiency are never justification for eroding essential aspects of our participatory democracy.

What next? Abolishing the presumption of innocence in criminal trials and reducing the burden of proof necessary to convict and individual of a serious crime? What about allowing for the statement of a Garda to the effect that a person is guilty of a crime to be sufficient for a conviction?

All of the above would certainly facilitate and improve conviction rates for serious crime. Would it however be justified?

is this to do with the EU to go after waste criminals themselves headline?