The longest, best american football kickers in the world, are not American

pjbrady1

I was thinking this over watching the superbowl.
A comment from one of the former players (Spirdeo? ...) was that "We would invite the kicker to a function and hope he wouldn't come". In other words the kicker was held in low regard. Similarly the punter.
The fame, glory and plays in American Football are all setup around the quarter back, the huge defense, the wide receivers and the running backs.
As a result of this most Americans never kick an American football in there young years 5years to 16.
At the same time in Ireland and the UK, young rugby and Gaelic footballers will have kicked a far heavier ball for countless hours from the ages 5 - 16.
There is a Darwinian selection process in particular attached to the O'Neills Gaelic football as it is the heaviest kicked field sport ball. The stronger player with the best technique will be chosen to kick 45's.
Somebody unfamiliar with kicking a ball for distance in their youth will not pick this up after maturity. I'v seen it countless times with people who never played much sport in their school days.
In conclusion, there will come an American football coach who realises 3 points is 3 points and pursues a stategy of constant field goals whithin 65 yards of the opposition goals.
Do kickers have to do the NFL combine?
How are they selected? Is it a long series of tests of kicking accuracy, distance, reacting under pressure, recovering fumbled kicks.
For all the talk of American footballs preperation and 100% knowledge of their sport Australian Darren Bennet went over a few years ago and was able to hang the ball up longer and further in the air than any previous NFL kicker using a kicking technique from AFL.
Ideal Gaelic football punters?, I reckon Karl Mannion Roscommon, Eoin Brosnan Kerry, Pascal Mcconnell Tyrone, David Clarke Mayo, Niall Sheridan and Niall Kelly Meath, Mark Herbert (long kick champion) Kildare
Gaelic Football field goal kickers, Current Kerry Free taker (Diarmuid ..), Oisin Mcconville, Those guys would mop up NFL contracts comfortable with one years practice.

tallaghtoutlaws

pjbrady1 wrote:

I was thinking this over watching the superbowl.
A comment from one of the former players (Spirdeo? ...) was that "We would invite the kicker to a function and hope he wouldn't come". In other words the kicker was held in low regard. Similarly the punter.
The fame, glory and plays in American Football are all setup around the quarter back, the huge defense, the wide receivers and the running backs.
As a result of this most Americans never kick an American football in there young years 5years to 16.
At the same time in Ireland and the UK, young rugby and Gaelic footballers will have kicked a far heavier ball for countless hours from the ages 5 - 16.
There is a Darwinian selection process in particular attached to the O'Neills Gaelic football as it is the heaviest kicked field sport ball. The stronger player with the best technique will be chosen to kick 45's.
Somebody unfamiliar with kicking a ball for distance in their youth will not pick this up after maturity. I'v seen it countless times with people who never played much sport in their school days.
In conclusion, there will come an American football coach who realises 3 points is 3 points and pursues a stategy of constant field goals whithin 65 yards of the opposition goals.
Do kickers have to do the NFL combine?
How are they selected? Is it a long series of tests of kicking accuracy, distance, reacting under pressure, recovering fumbled kicks.
For all the talk of American footballs preperation and 100% knowledge of their sport Australian Darren Bennet went over a few years ago and was able to hang the ball up longer and further in the air than any previous NFL kicker using a kicking technique from AFL.
Ideal Gaelic football punters?, I reckon Karl Mannion Roscommon, Eoin Brosnan Kerry, Pascal Mcconnell Tyrone, David Clarke Mayo, Niall Sheridan and Niall Kelly Meath, Mark Herbert (long kick champion) Kildare
Gaelic Football field goal kickers, Current Kerry Free taker (Diarmuid ..), Oisin Mcconville, Those guys would mop up NFL contracts comfortable with one years practice.

Kickers in football are trained from an early age up nowadays. Its true to say Europeans have distant kicking abilties but it is technique we would need to learn.

Many European Sports personalities have gone over and failed miserabely to kick a field goal from distance as they could not get the technique correct. Take David James tried out at Miami Dolphins and couldn't Kick past 35 yards(not forgetting this is the ball on the the 18 yard line).

Yes kickers go through a combine but it is evident from watching their college careers on how good they are as you can easily put a kicker/punter in the limelight when reviewing tape as the camera is always on him when he goes to do his job.

To say Gaelic footballers could mop up in the NFL is Naive. Have you ever played American Football? The ball is completely different to a soccer/GAA ball. 2 of my friends kick in College in the states one of them is Irish American and grew up here until the age of 8 and he plays GAA in New York as well as Football in a D3 college.

So in essence I do not agree with you.

bobby wade

& Darren Bennett didn't just take the NFL by storm he had to learn the techniques for a season in NFLE first

Pherekydes

pjbrady1 wrote:

In conclusion, there will come an American football coach who realises 3 points is 3 points and pursues a stategy of constant field goals whithin 65 yards of the opposition goals.

I often thought this might happen if the average rugby coach started coaching US football. I just couldn't see them trying to go for a TD when they're in FG range. Fortunately, it wouldn't work, as they'd need a super defence to keep stopping the other team from scoring TDs, and you'd need more than double the number of FGs to win.

I also think you're underestimating the kickers and punters. For every weedy Gramatica type you have a hulking John Hall type. One guy playing punter was All-American at Pole Vault and also played QB and LB in HS.

Our kickers would find kicking a 65yd FG quite easy, if it was GAA-style, i.e. nobody within 10 yards, but the Yanks have to do it with a line of scrimmage on 7 yards away, and a (probable) world class jumper trying to get as high as possible.

The punters have to do more than just punt. Hunter Smith was holding for FGs and EPs for the Colts in the SB and he isn't the only one. Some punters are the long-range FG kickers.

These guys play the position in college and HS, and frequently play other positions like QB or defence.

Boomer23

you also have to take into account, in my eyes, the 2 major differences between NFL kicking and all other sports:

1. The ball is not stationary, it is snapped back and set. in GAA and Rugby they can take time to set the ball, set their feet, check the turf and so on just to kick it.

2. In the NFL you have a number of man monsters rushing you from when the ball is snapped.

Sure wasnt there talk of Ronan O'Gara trying out with the Dolphins a couple of years back? The base salary over there is over a half-million so if he thought he could do it he would have.

Coileach dearg

pjbrady1 wrote:

Ideal Gaelic football punters?, I reckon Karl Mannion Roscommon, Eoin Brosnan Kerry, Pascal Mcconnell Tyrone, David Clarke Mayo, Niall Sheridan and Niall Kelly Meath, Mark Herbert (long kick champion) Kildare

Interesting you should mention David Clarke, I was at a Mayo training session a few years ago and the Mayo keeper at the time Fintan Ruddy could kick the ball twice the length that Clarke could. Ruddy has an unreal kick, I saw him in one match kick the ball well over 60 yards against the wind!!!

Cic Fada roll of honour:

Year Winner County Winning kick
2000 Mark Herbert Kildare
2001 Mark Herbert Kildare 72m
2002 Mark Herbert Kildare 61m
2003 Mark Herbert Kildare
2004 Pádraig Kelly Offaly
2005 Pádraig Kelly Offaly 63m
2006 Fintan Ruddy Mayo 62m

pjbrady1 wrote:

Current Kerry Free taker (Diarmuid ..)

Current Kerry free taker is Brian Sheehan.

On the note of GAA players going to NFL, James Masters of Cork was recently linked to an NFL team and was seriously considering the offer.

The record scorer in NFL history Morten Anderson, is also a non-American, he's Danish.

FlutterinBantam

As a previous poster pointed out the big difference is that the Gaa and Rugby kicker has basically as much time as he likes.

In American Football two things must happen first..the snap must be good,and for that reason most teams have a specialised "long snapper" Rob Davis in the case of the Packers. Secondly the hold must be good,usually done by backup QB or punter.

It is reckoned that the Kicker has 1.2 secs from snap to kick while a lot of mean meat is bearing down on him.

Most kickers who miss 3 in a row from inside around 45 yards would be looking for a job next week..

To say there are players in the GAA who would make it as kickers and punters in the NFL is probably true..but... very very few.

pjbrady1

David James was a bad choice to try out for NFL. He is too big to have any effective snap in his kick. A soccer ball is light, so you can almost stride through the ball after kicking. If premiership goalies were landed with an O'Neills they would not put it more than 50 yards.
The techniques are different, the weight of the O'Neills means it needs a final all out effort leg snap. A soccer ball can be driven through straight leg style with less leg speed. Witness tall goalies, with slow leg speed driving a soccer ball far off the ground.
Mark Herberts 72m kick of an O'Neills, I reckon that is the most impressive kick of a ball in field sport history.

Do punters have plenty of time for punting back down the field? Is there also a play where you have plenty of time to restart the quarter from the ground?
Those plays with plenty of time would take less adjustment for GAA players. I'v thought of another type of play where kicker runs to the right or left aided by some blockers and punts the ball from the hand while running. It would confuse the oppostion. As the commentator said the last day, "when you make athletes think ... they make mistakes." Is it legal for punter to run with it for distance and then kick?

Vikings

As long as he doesnt pass the line of scrimmage he can do almost what he likes once he gets the ball.

You will see something like that happen when there is a high snap and the punter cant bring it down, he will chase the ball down and if at all possible avoid any possible return team players and get the kick off any which way he can.

The reason you see all punt plays the same is that over time that has proven to be the most effective - you can kick left or right from the middle of the field and with all your offensive line in front of you there is less that can go wrong on the blocking side of the ball not to mention its a whole lot easier to create a pocket for the punter.

tallaghtoutlaws

Lets be real no current soccer or GAA or RUgby star will ever play in the NFL for this reason alone. Without ever playing as an American Football Kicker they have no experience and no NFL team is going to chance a minimum half million a year on a guy with no proven track record.Especially when they have over 10 thousand kids in high scool or colleges progressing up. Someone mentioned Morten Andersen, He actually went to high school in an exchange program back in 77 and from there played high school football. So he proved himself there and went on to Michigan Wolverines a huge football college.

We will maybe see the influx of Europeans go to the US and play in High Schools and Colleges and one or two as there is now will make an NFL team only because they have experience in an American Football league in Europe and they tried out in countless of combines for NFLE or NFL etc etc.

Not to say these guys couldnt do it but without ever playing the sport they wont have a chance, as the pressure to kick and skill of kicking is completely different to what they are used to.

pjbrady1

Darren Bennett a former AFL full back has already proved you can adjust. He was following another AFL player who went to America.
Darren Bennet was named on the NFL team of the 1990's he apparently had no serious contender for the honour.
He was 31 years of age when he went over. He had one of the best ever NFL punt averages in his first year.
So not alone can players adjust, but they can go over and be top players. It's already been proved. Bennett did it in one year.
Maurice Fitzgerald would get a contract in the morning if he picked up the phone to the USA. It's well known among alot of kicking coaches in America that Fitzgerald beat the American kicker back in 1988.
The 1.2second time is plenty to get off your kick. In general you should be kicking with guys still a nice few yards away from you. No one got near Colts guy the last day. None of his kicks were touched.

tallaghtoutlaws

PJ it is not as easy as picking up to the phone and calling someone. Maurice is what 32 now so it is highly unlikely he would ever get picked. Bennett went over to the NFL in the 90's. He was on Honeymoon and called the chargers. He spent a yeara in their practice squad and then was sent to NFL Europe. Gets back to my point without experience they wont be given a chance hence why Bennett spent a year on a practice squad and another year in NFL Europe. As for Bennet v Fitzgerald, One thing AFL stars have over GAA stars would be the odd shaped ball. But at 32 Fitzgerald would never get a look in.

Not to say GAA stars couldnt do it but it would involve giving up two years of their life minimum on practice squad or being shipped to NFLE to try out. My 2 friends who kick in college well one of them is a WR also but they spent most of their lives in Ireland and then moved to the US with family but those guys stand a better chance making the NFL than any current European Sports star. Such is life.

tallaghtoutlaws

pjbrady1 wrote:

Maurice Fitzgerald would get a contract in the morning if he picked up the phone to the USA. It's well known among alot of kicking coaches in America that Fitzgerald beat the American kicker back in 1988.

And what American Kicker?

twinytwo

Boomer23 wrote: »

you also have to take into account, in my eyes, the 2 major differences between NFL kicking and all other sports:

1. The ball is not stationary, it is snapped back and set. in GAA and Rugby they can take time to set the ball, set their feet, check the turf and so on just to kick it.

2. In the NFL you have a number of man monsters rushing you from when the ball is snapped.

Sure wasnt there talk of Ronan O'Gara trying out with the Dolphins a couple of years back? The base salary over there is over a half-million so if he thought he could do it he would have.

i hope your not irish to make a stupid comment like that.... "if he thought he could have he would have".. why would he the man has played rugby his whole life plays for munster and ireland and is one of the best out-halfs in the world go over to play a game where he would barely be involved. Money is not everything and if he only went over to kick what a boring life that would be!.. he makes a fortune over here anyway. What you should have said was they tried to get him but they were told what to do with themselves. As that is what happened. Why do you think none of the great fly halves ever went to the states and none of the current ones will either(carter, wilkinson, monty, paterson)

Karlusss

Also, something that hasn't been mentioned - if people just kept scoring field goals from 50 yards without holding on to the ball ever, the other team would have the ball for most of the game, and have a reasonably good chance of scoring a couple of TDs. Because they would be trying. Also I imagine it's much easier to defend against a team who are just trying to get within field goal range all the time, with very little danger of breaking out and doing something unexpected.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

And what American Kicker?

I remember this competition, it was Matt Barr, one of the greatest kickers of all time.
But this competition was a world kicking competition and not just american football. it was designed to find out who was the best all around kicker from any sport. You had soccer, rugby, aussie rules, gaelic football and american football kickers in this competition.
It certainly was not an American Football kicking competition or anything close.
As regards this silly thread, some people just simplify everything. Its not that easy to kick an american football. Accuracy is no.1.
If you are even slightly off with an american football you will miss. Its so easy to put spin on the ball, and the ball is so light that the spin really affects the direction of the ball.
And as already pointed out, there are other variables like a bunch of 250/350 pounders mad to kill you as you attempt kick.
And then the fact that you do not place the ball and take your time, as soon as its snapped you gotta kick it.

twinytwo

eagle eye wrote: »

I remember this competition, it was Matt Barr, one of the greatest kickers of all time.
But this competition was a world kicking competition and not just american football. it was designed to find out who was the best all around kicker from any sport. You had soccer, rugby, aussie rules, gaelic football and american football kickers in this competition.
It certainly was not an American Football kicking competition or anything close.
As regards this silly thread, some people just simplify everything. Its not that easy to kick an american football. Accuracy is no.1.
If you are even slightly off with an american football you will miss. Its so easy to put spin on the ball, and the ball is so light that the spin really affects the direction of the ball.
And as already pointed out, there are other variables like a bunch of 250/350 pounders mad to kill you as you attempt kick.
And then the fact that you do not place the ball and take your time, as soon as its snapped you gotta kick it.

its a bit retarded to compare completely different sports. as for the accuracy the same goes for rugby if your off you miss. as with everything else it is not the sport that makes the kicker but the kicker that makes the sport.. grow up

tallaghtoutlaws

twinytwo wrote: »

its a bit retarded to compare completely different sports. as for the accuracy the same goes for rugby if your off you miss. as with everything else it is not the sport that makes the kicker but the kicker that makes the sport.. grow up

Your post actually makes no sense. Eagle eye wasnt comparing any sports he was reffing to a kicking competition that someone mentioned earlier on in the thread. And reading his post again he wasnt comparing the kicking between any sports again dude go back and read the post that someone made about the kicking comp thing. So before you jump down his throat maybe its you who should grow up.:rolleyes:

Chucky the tree

twinytwo wrote: »

its a bit retarded to compare completely different sports. as for the accuracy the same goes for rugby if your off you miss. as with everything else it is not the sport that makes the kicker but the kicker that makes the sport.. grow up

lol. Hello? Mcfly?

jdivision

twinytwo wrote: »

What you should have said was they tried to get him but they were told what to do with themselves. As that is what happened. Why do you think none of the great fly halves ever went to the states and none of the current ones will either(carter, wilkinson, monty, paterson)

Eh I think you'll find that the Dolphins thing was circulated by O'Gara's agent when he was in contract talks with the IRFU. It's absolute rubbish, they would have no interest in him.

Karlusss

Gavin Hastings, the Scottish full-back from the 90s, played in NFL Europa for a while and was poor, if I recall.

smackbunnybaby

does anyone know the highest draft pick of a kicker/punter?

while kicker is an important role, it's true its generally disregarded in american football.

tallaghtoutlaws

smackbunnybaby wrote: »

does anyone know the highest draft pick of a kicker/punter?

while kicker is an important role, it's true its generally disregarded in american football.

Sebastien Janakowski was taken in the 1st round. Not too sure if he was the highest of all time though me thinks there was actually a kicker taken higher again correct me if im wrong.

Rented Mule

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Sebastien Janakowski was taken in the 1st round. Not too sure if he was the highest of all time though me thinks there was actually a kicker taken higher again correct me if im wrong.

I believe that Ray guy was taken in the 1st round by John Madden when he was with the Raiders

****************************

As far as the title of thisthread The longest, best american football kickers in the world, are not American , it has to be said that American kids have never been pushed to be kickers.

Kickers have never been looked on as 'football players' they are always the guy that was brought in from the outside with one purpose 'kick the ball'.

Soccer has been on the rise since the '94 World Cup in the States, so you may see an increase in the quality of this position increase over the next 10 years or so.

Looking for fault in the game because of the nationality of some of the players is a bit assinine.

hanton12

well there are 2 Aussies playing for the Jets and Eagles as punters, Ben Graham and Sav Rocca. Both finished their AFL career and went to America for a few handy bucks to boot a ball downfield which they did with ease in Aussie Rules. Rocca got smashed in his first game in pre season against the Ravens, clip is on youtube.

But they did more or less just walk onto the teams and had huge kicks.

davyjose

hanton12 wrote: »

Rocca got smashed in his first game in pre season against the Ravens, clip is on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cerDBOd_zlg

Cheap shot