USI levy - Optional?

spiderbaby2000

(I'm new to the boards so apologies if this is an old topic)

The answer is obviously "yes" but where is it stated on the fee payment form or even on the college website? I'm particularly annoyed this year because in my second fees payment, my bill read:
"2nd installment €1244.50"
This amount included the USI levy but this was not mentioned on the form. I had to ring the office and get them to change my details so I could only pay the correct amount.

I hope I'm not the only student to be offended at this sneakiness. I've emailed the SU to suggest that the form reads "USI levy (optional)."

And yes, I'm one of the older, crankier students

Andrew 83

I'm surprised the USI levy isn't just all included in the first payment. It's only 7 euro or so anyway isn't it?

spiderbaby2000

[edited to remove a misunderstanding and too much coffee-fueled crankiness from myself!]

Andrew 83

I meant given that the fee is reasonably low I don't really see why they'd go to the trouble of breaking it up into two 4 euro payments.

spiderbaby2000

Andrew 83 wrote:

I meant given that the fee is reasonably low I don't really see why they'd go to the trouble of breaking it up into two 4 euro payments.

Sorry, fair point. I misread that.

They actually don't break up the levy into two payments - it's included in the September fee. In my case, I opted out in September only to have the feckin' thing hidden in my second installment fee.

Time Magazine

spiderbaby2000 wrote:

Joining a union is optional.

That's not strictly true. Some unions may force you to join. I think the logic behind it is that if this wasn't the case, employers could only hire people who wouldn't join and thus effectively remove people's right to form a union.

spiderbaby2000

Ah! Guess I should have researched that a bit. Well, I learned something new anyway!

I guess the Trinity and USI is a bit like an open shop then. From what you said, this probably works based on the fact that Trinity can't choose their student body.

Tacitha

I thought that you couldn't be forced to be a member of a union (and surely it could just be illegal for employers to ask whether you were planning to join?)

In any case, there is no need to pay the USI fee - I have left it off a few times with no consequences. You do need to look out for it in the second fee installment. I suppose it may just show up automatically. As far as I know, TCD gains nothing by collecting it so has no stake in fooling people. I was once asked not to pay it by the registration officers because it would have been the only thing I was paying, and they could get me through the system faster without it.

Time Magazine

I didn't mean you did not have a right to leave the USI, etc. I meant that under certain circumstances (thus the "not strictly true" bit), you may be compelled to join a union.

Citzens Information wrote:

It can be made a condition of employment that you must join a particular union upon accepting a job offer and remain in that union while you remain an employee in that job. There is a view that this may not be constitutional, but this has not been tested in the courts yet. If you are already in the job without being a union member and are at a later stage required to join a union by your employer, you can refuse, as this is unconstitutional.

How this might apply to a non-employment union, I dunno. It looks like it this sort of thing hasn't been tried in the courts. Although I did hear that College Students' Unions are "service providers" as opposed to unions, and thus you cannot leave them. How true that is, I dunno.

mcguirkj

It should be pointed out that while the USI levy is an optional payment, failure to pay does not remove you from USI membership. The Levy goes into a fund the SU use to pay their USI fees, and all any shortfall created by people failing to pay that levy must be made up by the SU.

By not paying, you are simply asking others to pay for you.

xeduCat

While there are legitimate issues here, please take note (as I've pointed out before) that quoting employment law is of absolutely no relevance. USI is not a union; does not hold a negotiating license, is not registered with the Registrar of Friendly Societies or engage in collective bargaining. Labour law does not apply to USI (except, ironically, in its capacity as an employer!!)

It is as much a union as the 'credit union' is. It's just a linguistic convenience. If USI changed its name to the National Students' Platform or the Irish Association of Ne'er-Do-Wells, the legal position would *not* change.

There are of course questions about freedom of association...and about the collection of levies within higher education, and so on. But please do not make the mistake of taking the language of employment law and applying it without distinction. There may be similar issues, based on a common root of the Constitutional and European Convention on Human Rights protections of freedom of (dis)association. But the fact that certain things (in caselaw or in statute) relating to 'unions' (in virtually all cases defined as trade unions) are true does not mean that they are true for other associations and/or organisations.

Incidentally USI doesn't have individual members, as John indicates above - organisations (or service providers :-P ) pay a fee based on a notional number of students represented so if there ever was a legal issue this would be relevant (I know there have been various opinions sought over the years). As I said on a previous thread (can't find it right now), the direction in other countries has been to try and deal with this question by statute, which brings its own perils. For now, anyone who claims to have an answer is either a liar or a Supreme Court judge

Crash

mcguirkj wrote:

It should be pointed out that while the USI levy is an optional payment, failure to pay does not remove you from USI membership. The Levy goes into a fund the SU use to pay their USI fees, and all any shortfall created by people failing to pay that levy must be made up by the SU.

By not paying, you are simply asking others to pay for you.

damn, beat me to it. Kinda wanted to be the one to make the point :P

Tacitha

By not paying, you are simply asking others to pay for you.

Well not asking, to be fair. Frankly, I'd rather they didn't.

Still, I have quite a tender conscience, and while I have no time whatsoever for the USI, I wouldn't like to see TCDSU resources suffer. I did pay this year, so I can sleep at night.

Isn't it a bit disingenous, though, to run a referendum mandating students to make a voluntary contribution? ("And if you don't, we'll all suffer, and it'll be all your fault...") To what extent would/does the SU supplement the individual contributions from capitation money? Would we leave if enough people didn't pay, or would it require another referendum?

Tacitha

Tacitha wrote:

To what extent would/does the SU supplement the individual contributions from capitation money? Would we leave if enough people didn't pay, or would it require another referendum?

Technically the SU doesn't receive individual contributions (apart from sponsorship). The college collections the reg fee and divides it up between examinations, registration, and to a lesser extent student services and the capitation committee. The capitation committee then divides up what it receives.

Plus I wish you good luck trying not to pay the Reg Fee