Moderation of Medical Advice in PI

DMC2005

Guys,

While I appreciate the great work being done by the mods over in PI, I really feel some threads are giving dangerous medical advice. Perticularly this thread : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055048942

Essentially a number of posters have taken it upon themselves to diagnose what is wrong with the OP, which seems to be only tolerated as the OP's complaint relates to depression.

Particularly worrying is the refusal by mods to allow a number of factually incorrect and dangerous posts to be rebuked.

I would ask the mods of PI to adhere to their own forum charter and remove the posts in this thread which :

-tell the OP there is nothing wrong with them
-tell the OP at what stage of their treatment anti-depressives should be used
-tell the OP that there is no need to see a doctor
-tell the OP that medication will not help them
-tell the OP that they just need someone to talk to
-tell the OP that the medication won't help
-suggest that medication is the problem, not the solution

I cannot stress enough the dangers of such medical advice being tolerated on boards.ie, particularly when it is related to such a dangerous illness as depression, and particularly when it is shows such contrast to accepted medical practice.

Gordon

I think the problems started with the contentious remarks offered by Commander Vimes. I don't have a problem with the previous posts. They advised counsellors and doctors and family/friends referrals.

However Commander Vimes' contentious remarks may have been, they were based on his experience with his mother who was on anti-ds, this is something to be considered.

After this remark the debate went into realms that was definitely off-topic but I'd be happy to move/split the thread and bump the new thread over to the Biology forum if people want that?

I could very well go and erase the statements that suggest the medication is the problem, not the solution and leave only the fact that the medication is the solution - but that would be a form of medical advice also. Right now we have (had) two sides offering their opinion - we have a good visible (although cut-off as it is off-topic) argument for and against - I would rather this than no argument at all, or a one sided argument.

edit- Also, if you think that some threads are giving dangerous advise then please report the posts to let the mods have a look at them.

DeVore

I agree that noone should be told to refuse medication that a doctor has proscribed. Have you discussed this with the PI mods?

I havent reviewed that thread yet myself but I will do so.

DeV.

DeVore

Gordon, I would prefer that we had no discussion of such specific and medical cases simply because both sides are suggesting a course of action which neither is medically qualified to suggest. The person should be referred to professional counseling and thread closed imho.

DeV.

Gordon

OK, fair enough DeV, maybe I/we are being too lax on PI nowadays. I'll have a word with the rest of the PI mods to see.

I've edited the thread and left an unedited copy of it on the PI mod forum.

DMC2005

Gordon wrote:

I think the problems started with the contentious remarks offered by Commander Vimes. I don't have a problem with the previous posts.

I disagree - the medical adivce began when Faith posted : "anti-depressants should only be used as a last resort...... I would never recommend that somebody starts taking anti-depressants unless they're very seriously depressed"

I cannot see how this "advice" can be tolerated. If Faith had said that insulin or heart medication should only be used as a last resort and only if their condition was very serious then the post would have been removed.

DMC2005

Gordon wrote:

OK, fair enough DeV, maybe I/we are being too lax on PI nowadays. I'll have a word with the rest of the PI mods to see.

I've edited the thread and left an unedited copy of it on the PI mod forum.

Thanks Gordon for sorting this so quickly

OTK

DeVore wrote:

I agree that noone should be told to refuse medication that a doctor has proscribed.

Why?

jhegarty

OTK wrote:

Why?

If you think someone has been given bad advice by a doctor then tell them to get a second option...don't tell them not to take the drugs.....

Faith

DMC2005 wrote:

I disagree - the medical adivce began when Faith posted : "anti-depressants should only be used as a last resort...... I would never recommend that somebody starts taking anti-depressants unless they're very seriously depressed"

I cannot see how this "advice" can be tolerated. If Faith had said that insulin or heart medication should only be used as a last resort and only if their condition was very serious then the post would have been removed.

That certainly wasn't meant as medical advice, I was speaking from experience. I have seen anti-depressants react extremely badly with someone close to me and as such, I would be of the opinion that other avenues should be explored for the treatment of depression (such as counselling) before anti-depressants. They may work well in certain cases, but they are not without serious risks.

In any case, the post has now been removed so my opinion on the matter of the OPs post is no longer relevant.

Steveire

Faith wrote:

That certainly wasn't meant as medical advice, I was speaking from experience. I have seen anti-depressants react extremely badly with someone close to me and as such, I would be of the opinion that other avenues should be explored for the treatment of depression (such as counselling) before anti-depressants. They may work well in certain cases, but they are not without serious risks.

In any case, the post has now been removed so my opinion on the matter of the OPs post is no longer relevant.

Looks to me like it is relevant. You presented your opinion as a fact or universal truth. You didn't qualify it by saying it's only based on your experience. I don't know if it's necessary to do so in big red letters, but best to be unambiguous in any case.

DMC2005

Faith,

I think the mods have made it clear that your comments should not have appeared on the thread. While you may feel that you are helping, you are not qualified to give advice.

Not much point in having them removed from the old thread if you repost them here.

OTK

jhegarty wrote:

If you think someone has been given bad advice by a doctor then tell them to get a second option...don't tell them not to take the drugs.....

If the doctor says you shouldn't take them, then I don't think any of us should be encouraging them to ignore this advice.

aidan_walsh

OTK wrote:

If the doctor says you shouldn't take them, then I don't think any of us should be encouraging them to ignore this advice.

I think DeV's point was that nobody on boards should be telling people to refuse medication.

WhiteWashMan

aidan_walsh wrote:

I think DeV's point was that nobody on boards should be telling people to refuse medication.

i think Dev's point was that we are not medical doctors, this is not a medical exam room, and we are not going to be liable for someone doing something stupid based on somone elses experiences.

DublinWriter

Maybe just rename the forum "Non-Medically Related Personal Issues" and have done?

Could the same argument about legal exposure be made also about medical advice sometimes offered in both the "Tattoos & Piercings" and "Dental" fora?

jhegarty

DublinWriter wrote:

Maybe just rename the forum "Non-Medically Related Personal Issues" and have done?

Could the same argument about legal exposure be made also about medical advice sometimes offered in both the "Tattoos & Piercings" and "Dental" fora?

or make a medical advise forum and ban everyone who posts where ...

Nevyn

DMC2005 if you had an issue with a post why did you not report them ?
Pi can be ver busy and the mods have lifes and there are times we can't baby sit each thread and will barely be able to get around to tidy the forum and see to reported posts.

nesf

Faith wrote:

That certainly wasn't meant as medical advice, I was speaking from experience. I have seen anti-depressants react extremely badly with someone close to me and as such, I would be of the opinion that other avenues should be explored for the treatment of depression (such as counselling) before anti-depressants. They may work well in certain cases, but they are not without serious risks.

There is a very fine line between positive about counselling and being negative about anti-depressants. It's one thing to say "Go get counselling" and quite another to say "Don't go to a GP yet, go get councelling first". The first is constructive, the second is something that, even in the flesh, you probably couldn't judge to be the correct advice for an individual.

The other issue is that while you may hold that opinion, and are entitled to debate it, you really shouldn't offer it as advice to anyone who is feeling depressed. Just because you've seen an instance of it going wrong, doesn't invalidate it as a treatment. As a rough analogy, I have a vague understanding of how networking and security works. I have opinions and some degree of experience in the area. But if someone posts a thread looking for advice on networking/security on a mission critical server should I even venture an opinion never mind give advice?

Beruthiel

DMC2005
If you see another thread like this, could you please hit the 'report bad post' icon, this way a mod will catch the problem very quickly.

DMC2005

Beruthiel wrote:

DMC2005
If you see another thread like this, could you please hit the 'report bad post' icon, this way a mod will catch the problem very quickly.

Thaedydal wrote:

Pi can be ver busy and the mods have lifes and there are times we can't baby sit each thread and will barely be able to get around to tidy the forum and see to reported posts.

Beruthial / Thaedyal,

The thread had already come to the attention of the mods and they were satisfied with it. Three PI mods had even posted on the thread after the material I objected to - Victor, Dudara and Gordon.

If you read earlier in this thread you will see that the mods ( Gordon ) had no intention of removing the material until given a slight nudge by DeVore.

DeVore

Oh come on! They showed maturity in accepting direction from me without throwing a hissy fit. Its a pity not everyone has such class.

Thread closed,
DeV.