Laser Card Signatures - No One Checks?!

connundrum

Hey,

In the past few weeks I've noticed that less and less shop assistants are checking my signature when I sign for goods ie. they hand the card back to me before I'm even handed the receipt to sign!!

Now, I am absolutely disgusted at this policy (or lack of implemetation of policy) as it makes me feel very sure that if I lost my card tonight - someone has got a very definite chance of clearing my account by simply going into a shop and signing any old name.

I know chip & pin is to come in soon (to PTSB), but that makes no odds to me now, who is still signing for everything.

Does no one check it, ever?? Like if I were to start signing 'John Doe', would that ever be copped?

Kimbot

I have chip and pin and i found a few problems with it now!!

I ring for a delivery out of godfathers and use the laser card and they don't need a signature or pin or even check the card!! Its madness!!

CtrlSource

Chip and pin is the best way currently available, particularly for debit cards where money is leaving your account nearly straight away! Seems crazy that some places are still accepting signatures and not even checking them. Even if they did check it, it's not really safe. Most peoples signatures on the back of cards are hard to read and scrawled.

Regarding the pizza place, it's the same when you book cinema tickets and the like over the phone, or does that just apply to credit cards. Hmmm..

Kimbot

you book cinema tickets using the number but you have to enter the card into a machine then but no valid checks are done on the card!!

jesus_thats_gre

They will check it on big transactions.. If someone robbed your card, they are not gonna go in to somewhere like Tesco that is covered with security camera and buy 20 or 30 euro shopping.

You will find that smaller shops will check the signature.

bugler

The use of signatures was never going to be effective. Even a half-skilled fraudster would be able to do a reasonable impersonation of a signature. Or wrap a plaster around their finger and use that as an excuse for an askew signature.

I know my writing can be a bit erratic, and some cards I've signed over the past few years wouldn't match my signature very well now. A cursory check is desirable and the least you should get, because you should at least have the name (correctly spelled...) on the receipt from a shops point of view, but realistically if everyone behind a counter started to closely scrutinise signatures and start refusing service because the signatures didn't match people would complain about that too.

Chip and Pin should have been brought in a long time ago, the use of signatures for credit/laser cards is a fraudsters dream.

connundrum

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

They will check it on big transactions.. If someone robbed your card, they are not gonna go in to somewhere like Tesco that is covered with security camera and buy 20 or 30 euro shopping.

You will find that smaller shops will check the signature.

Sorry, what got my goat about the issue was that over the weekend I went into Power City to buy a TV and the card was thrown back at my while the receipt was printing. Now that was a few hundred euros like.

I've taken a note of it and in the past week, for 11 transactions - 3 were checked, 1 of these was actually studied. That was a mixture of smaller and bigger stores.

CH3OH

I can't remember where I came across this but it shows how far you can go...

http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit

Gillo

Yeah, I have to say from experience very few people have checked my signature.

Working in retail, I'm amazed at how many cards I am handed with no signature (a lot of the cards look like they have been used for a while also). The company I work for are entirely chip & pin (obvious exclusion is if you don't have a C&P card) and alot of customers have no idea what their pin is and prefer to just sign a piece of paper. So it seems that customers are also at fault for not adopting to the new system.

AFAIK if you have a chip and pin card from 14th of this month, you will have to use your pin. THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH NO ACCESS TO THEIR CARDS ON VALENTINES DAY!!!

Kensington

connundrum wrote:

Sorry, what got my goat about the issue was that over the weekend I went into Power City to buy a TV and the card was thrown back at my while the receipt was printing. Now that was a few hundred euros like.

I've taken a note of it and in the past week, for 11 transactions - 3 were checked, 1 of these was actually studied. That was a mixture of smaller and bigger stores.

Well it's really in the interest of the store to check the signatures match. All of those signed slips must be filed away by the store, and in the event a cardholder disputes a purchase, its up to the store to show the signed receipt and that the signatures match. If not, then its the store that takes the hit, for not verifying the signature. If the signatures do match, then chances are the bank will take the hit (unless of course, you didn't sign the back of the card in which case the cardholder will take the hit, and rightly so). But most of the time, the customer will get their money back.

Of course, this'll change with Chip & Pin coming compulsory. In this case, the onus is totally on the cardholder because the only way someone will be able to use the card is if they know the PIN, so the cardholder will be fully responsible for fraud. And of course, the whole is gonna be great fun for anyone working tills like meself, with people whinging they can't remember their PIN and no longer being able to sign for it!

enda1

Did the J1 thing in Boston '05. Had a debit card there and used it everywhere, it was great. Shopping in the local supermarkets they had those self service checkouts. They're such a joke in the States, much less of a pain than in Ireland where they go mental if you even touch the weighing scales. Anyway always paid for the goods with debit card and had to sign one of those electronic touch screens. I always just signed my name out of habit but one of the guys with us in fits of anti-Americanism, used draw c0cks or wright fcuk off. It was quite funny in a childish sort of way.

What my amusing anecdote is trying to say;) is that signing is such a waste of time and is just a thin veil of security. That said chip and pin aint much better in my opinion with people so brash when typing in their pin for the world to see.

sdanseo

I used to work in a shop and would try to always check the signature, even if only a quick glance. Problem is there's always the situation where you put the card down and they take it back, or are really busy where it's not practical.

Plus, as said above anyone can forge a signature. The chip and pin is more effective butpeople I don't think are protective enough of PINs, if i'd tried I could have memorized 70% of my customers' ones.

vector

as has been said chip & pin removes the need for the customer to sign, but you know even when a non C&P card is used the idea of the signature is silly, becuase the customer signs the piece of paper AFTER the machine has taken the money from their card!

years ago when cards were processed manually with an impression "machine" where your card was placed on a piece of metal and carbon paper (does anyone else remember those?) the customer signed a piece of paper which was later submited to a bank so if the merchant decided the signature wasn't a match he could say withhold goods and services and tear up the piece of paper, goodbye customer, but as I'm saying today if a customer signs "Mickey Mouse" and you check the signature against the card its too late, and as many merchants are corporates the employee isin't going to do a refund to the card and call security to get the goods back, as that would place his job on the line if he was wrong.

sdanseo

vector wrote:

but as I'm saying today if a customer signs "Mickey Mouse" and you check the signature against the card its too late, and as many merchants are corporates the employee isin't going to do a refund to the card and call security to get the goods back, as that would place his job on the line if he was wrong.

Place I worked in was a very big Irish franchise, and if they even thought I had let someone away with goods that, even though paid for, were purchased illegally, I or anyone else would probably be immediately sacked. The shop is only going to get in major trouble otherwise and although it'd be embarrasing to be wrong it's better safe than sorry.

eth0_

vector wrote:

the customer signs the piece of paper AFTER the machine has taken the money from their card!
.

No it doesn't. It doesn't debit the card until the checkout person checks the sig on the card and receipt, and presses a button to verify the two match.

Red Alert

A shop I worked in (who has the same tills as Penny's) definitely had no 'confirm signature' step. When you pressed Card and swiped it, if the transaction was OK it would flash gibberish up on the screen for a second or two and then go back to zero. There'd be a slip to sign for the customer, but I actually think you'd have to manually void the transaction at the end of the day if the signature was wrong.

mcaul

The technology behind credit / debit card processing is phenomonal.

Each and every tansaction is now done "live", so if you report you card stolen it can be cancelled within a minute and the next time it is used, it is refused - worldwide. (This is why it can be refused once you go a penny over your limit!)

As for pizzas, cinema tickets etc - you will always have to give your billing address - this again is checked automatically and confirmed along with the 3 digit code on the back of the card. Furthermore if there is any strange set of transactions a message will come up on the terminal screen and the store will have to ring the CC company for confirmation - sometimes you will need to answer questions to verify you are the cardholder.


The signature / pin is just one additional security line.

Kensington

eth0_ wrote:

No it doesn't. It doesn't debit the card until the checkout person checks the sig on the card and receipt, and presses a button to verify the two match.

This is certainly not the case where I work - the transaction has to be fully completed before any receipt (and signature slip) is printed. No such confirmation prompt exists. Of course, if the sig/card looks dodgy then it is possible to immediately void the transaction, but it has to be done manually, through the company's head office.

Ste.phen

Kensington wrote:

This is certainly not the case where I work - the transaction has to be fully completed before any receipt (and signature slip) is printed. No such confirmation prompt exists. Of course, if the sig/card looks dodgy then it is possible to immediately void the transaction, but it has to be done manually, through the company's head office.

With regard to my workplace, what etho_ said is correct:

* Enter tender mode
* Card is swiped
* If Card has chip:
   * Customer enters PIN
   * PIN is checked against chip (customer may have to re-enter)
   * Card is authorised and charged
   * Receipt prints
   * Remove card from reader, hand to customer.
   * Cash drawer opens so store copy of the CC can be put into it.
   * Done.

* If signing instead:
   * Receipt prints, along with signing slip
   * Customer signs slip
   * If OK press Yes
      * Hand card and receipt to customer
      * Cash drawer opens
   * If not OK, customer decides to not use their card, etc
      * Bin receipt and signing slip
      * Customers' transaction is recalled by till
      * The 'card tender' part from the previous receipt is negated.
      * New receipt is printed, up as far as this point
      * <repeat as required>

Nala

I work in a supermarket and you would not believe the amount of people that take offence when they see me checking the signatures match. They also get really pissed off when they hand me an unsigned card and I ask to see I.D.

Or on the self checkouts, when a customer pays by credit/debit "Authorisation needed" comes up on their screen and I ask to see their card, the amount of people that go "Why???" or "You hardly think I robbed someone's card do you?!?!?!?".

I actually had to tell a customer once that I am not a psychic.

Red Alert

It is abjectly stupid that self checkouts don't have the chip and pin readers installed. In superquinn anyway the self checkouts run the ordinary till application and the self checkout program sits on top of it. Surely it's only a matter of plugging in the chip and pin reader and sticking it onto the front?

Pythia

Where I used to work I generally wouldn't look at signatures unless the person looked 'dodgy', in my opinion.
Also, if they looked dodgy and paid by cash, I'd put the cash under the UV checker.
But most of the time I'd only glance or wouldn't bother looking at the signature. No one ever questioned me about it.
I did make a point of looking away when people were putting in their pins, just in case they were paranoid about me.