The importance of using lights

Titiritero

Copying the title of another post, I would like to remind people to use lights, front and rear, when cycling at night. Not only is a legal requirement ignored by many, but also a good way to be seen in the dark and rainy Irish winter.

Last night, when cycling home, I saw in front of Busaras how an ambulance was taking away a cyclist that just had an accident with a car coming from the Isaac's Butt side, at around 23:45. In a normal situation the car driver would be the one to blame, but since I saw that the bike had no lights at all, that could turn against the cyclist and make him responsible for all hospital costs and damages. Hopefully the injuries won't be too serious, as both the car and the bike didn't seem to have serious damage. I didn't hear anything in the news this morning (maybe a cyclist involved in a road accident is no news anymore).

I think cycle shops should remind their customers that using lights is a legal requirement, or maybe the government should force all new bikes sold to include front and rear lights. It'd only mean an extra 10 EUR on the overall price, and it would definitely help spreading its usage

Bunnyhopper

I agree.

And you cheapos going around without lights are getting us all a bad name

For what it's worth: Cat Eye HL-1600RC on the front, and two TL-LD170s on the back (one flashing, one constant).

And, for when I'm feeling particularly disco, reflective yellow ankle straps with built-in flashing red LEDs

youcancallmeal

It doesn't make any sense not wear lights. Its just second nature for me now, wouldn't leave home without them even if I planned to be back before dark

Cabaal

The new trend seems to be just wearing those reflective jackets instead of using lights, Gardai should be stopping people for just wearing them imho

Raam

some chap moaned at me because my front light was too bright. It can be pretty dazzling when just charged, but he shouldn't have looked straight into it!

daymobrew

Cabaal wrote:

The new trend seems to be just wearing those reflective jackets instead of using lights, Gardai should be stopping people for just wearing them imho

I think that reflective items are better than lights, when vehicles approach from behind. The reflective jacket/vest harnesses the power of the vehicle's lights (considerably more powerful than most bike lights). Often you'll see a reflective jacket well before you see the bike lights.
During the day the bright colour of these jackets works well.
And it is better than nothing.

I recently upgraded to Cateye EL-530 up front and Cateye TL-LD1100 at the back. 88 euro for the pair at BikeDock.com.
I also have a hi-viz cover for my backpack and a reflective band for my helmet.

daymobrew

From the "Recommended Links" sticky:
How bright is that light?? - a surprising comparison of bike light brightness and spread.

Edit - compare the Niterider Storm light to any of the CatEye models.

ruprect

daymobrew wrote:

I recently upgraded to Cateye EL-530 up front and Cateye TL-LD1100 at the back. 88 euro for the pair at BikeDock.com.

I saw the 530 and the previous 1000 model as a pair on ebay as a "buy it now", worked out about €56 delivered from the US. I have the previous pair the el 500 and ld1000, both are great, that new set is even better.

I think you are not supposed to have flashing back lights but I set mine to that since it is far more noticeable, and you are more recognised as a cyclist.

I think cycle shops should remind their customers that using lights is a legal requirement, or maybe the government should force all new bikes sold to include front and rear lights. It'd only mean an extra 10 EUR on the overall price, and it would definitely help spreading its

I see your point but cheapo lights are pretty crap, thought better than nothing. VAT & duty should be scrapped on stuff any safety stuff like that though, possibly even subsidised. I know some companies have given out free reflective vests in the past, stick their logo on it and it is free advertising for them too.

Drapper

here here! If I had a euro for every cyclist I pass with dark clothes and no lights I'd be loaded! its about time guards made an example of some cyclists! I've 3 lights on my bike (1 halogen front and 2 leds to the rear!) so so important!

also as Cabaal said those high vis are usuless ....

Garth Farley

Some Hi-viz jackets can be decent, as they've stripes of proper reflective material that shine well if headlights hit them. But most of them are rubbish, just yellow material.

There should be no excuse for not having lights at night.

I think flashing lights are banned in the UK, but it's not specified in Ireland. I prefer them, you're more recognisable.
-G

Civilian_Target

Yep - being an invisible cyclist is just retarded.
I've got a dynamo-powered front light (that's only on when my bike's moving) and a basic flashing front LED to back it up and a powerful motion-sensing rear pannier light as well as flashing LEDs on the back of the saddle (the pannier light drinks batteries though!)

robfitz

Garth Farley wrote:

I think flashing lights are banned in the UK, but it's not specified in Ireland. I prefer them, you're more recognisable.

Flashing lights aren't legal in Ireland either.

Capt'n Midnight

Wasn't there a loophole in the UK and probably here that you couldn't have flashing lights on the bike, but you could on the cyclist. (of course the bike needs its own non-flashing lights)

Anyway most of the cheaper LED lights are only bright at certain angles and don't have a wide enough beam to be legal. If a pair of AA batteries last's months then you aren't emitting a lot of light.

I saw a nasty cheap blackspur led head torch, it had 32 LED's which is more like the sort of stuff that you could have on bikes

anyone know if there are LED's that run off Dynamo's - in the sense that they use the full 3 watts ?

supergrip

King Raam wrote:

some chap moaned at me because my front light was too bright. It can be pretty dazzling when just charged, but he shouldn't have looked straight into it!

So it served it's purpose perfectly so - just what you want - he noticed you! Of course if it's *way too* bright you might dazzle him into loosing control of the car and crashing into you. Doh!

Morgan

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

anyone know if there are LED's that run off Dynamo's - in the sense that they use the full 3 watts ?

http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html?docu/173e.htm
http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html?docu/171y-e.htm

Raam

supergrip wrote:

... Of course if it's *way too* bright you might dazzle him into loosing control of the car and crashing into you. Doh!

it was actually another cyclist I was stopped on my side of the track and he was coming in the opposite direction. I think my wheel must have been turned at an angle to face into him or something

Cabaal

King Raam wrote:

it was actually another cyclist I was stopped on my side of the track and he was coming in the opposite direction. I think my wheel must have been turned at an angle to face into him or something

I wouldn't care if somebody had lights on their bike as bright as a motorbiek light, its them that have to carry the extra weight and sort the power issues.

In the end its safer then not been seen, plus cars might treat you like a motorbike untill they get very close

ruprect

I was thinking of making my own lights a while back. I got one of these from ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/128-LED-GR-BIG-TORCH-FLASHLIGHT-LAMP-Ultra-Bright-Light_W0QQitemZ150086873529QQihZ005QQcategoryZ106987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Only about €18 delivered, it pisses on my cateye single LED EL500. It is way brighter than my mates expensive MTB halogen too, and lighter. It floods the light out very nicely, none of those bright and dim ridges you usually get. It takes 6AAs I was thinking I could have them strung up inside the handle bar, and have some connection hanging out so I could just plug it in once a week to charge. Then make a bracket so only the top part needs to be strapped to the light.

robfitz

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Wasn't there a loophole in the UK and probably here that you couldn't have flashing lights on the bike, but you could on the cyclist. (of course the bike needs its own non-flashing lights)

I would agree with that. You can have flashing lights on your body/bag, but your not allowed have flashing lights on your vehicle (bicycle) unless it's an indicator.

Road Traffic (Lighting of Vehicles) Regulations, 1963 Article 29 (lights on bicycles), article 49 (flashing lights).

Ghost Rider

Of course, having reflective strips is better, and probably essential at night, but the yellow fabric alone is very useful during the day. As someone who also drives, I know how much the sheer colour of a visi-vest can make a cyclist stand out at from the otherwise undifferentiated visual data forming the periphery of a driver's vision.

Garth Farley wrote:

Some Hi-viz jackets can be decent, as they've stripes of proper reflective material that shine well if headlights hit them. But most of them are rubbish, just yellow material.

There should be no excuse for not having lights at night.

I think flashing lights are banned in the UK, but it's not specified in Ireland. I prefer them, you're more recognisable.
-G

Gavin

I have a strong front and back light on the bike, neither flashing and two smaller keyyring type ones that I put on the back of my backpack and on the front.

I keep the ones on my person in case I come off the bike at night. They are quite bright, although one seems to be broken and sucks up the battery, the bastard.

Bunnyhopper

@Verb - good point about having lights on you as well as the bike.

I remember buying a bike light in a shop in England a few years back and the guy said something about the law there being a bit dated and strictly requiring you to have a filament bulb, which meant that LEDs didn't comply with the law. Of course, he still sold me an LED light and I haven't been arrested yet.

Does anyone know whether pedals here are supposed to have reflectors on them? I think it's a legal requirement in the UK but I don't know about here. Anyone ever get grief from the Guards about reflectors? (Just curious.)

robfitz

Bunnyhopper wrote:

Does anyone know whether pedals here are supposed to have reflectors on them? I think it's a legal requirement in the UK but I don't know about here. Anyone ever get grief from the Guards about reflectors? (Just curious.)

Your only required to have a rear red reflector on a bicycle.

Blowback

King Raam wrote:

some chap moaned at me because my front light was too bright. It can be pretty dazzling when just charged, but he shouldn't have looked straight into it!

Sorry King but there are some lights that blind you even when you are not looking into them (as you can't too bright!!!) like on these cycle paths that take both directions and you have no room to move out of the beam of light.Just point it lower to the ground.If you are a city cycllist it is not as if you need such a bright light to see where you are going.

Raam

Blowback wrote:

Sorry King but there are some lights that blind you even when you are not looking into them (as you can't too bright!!!) like on these cycle paths that take both directions and you have no room to move out of the beam of light.Just point it lower to the ground.If you are a city cycllist it is not as if you need such a bright light to see where you are going.

yeah I take your point, normally I have it pointed down. I bought it for when my commute used to take me down a very dark and fast country road

rubadub

Bunnyhopper wrote:

I remember buying a bike light in a shop in England a few years back and the guy said something about the law there being a bit dated and strictly requiring you to have a filament bulb, which meant that LEDs didn't comply with the law. Of course, he still sold me an LED light and I haven't been arrested yet.

I think in germany you need a certain light output, and maybe that was the same in the UK, of course LEDs have come along a huge way and are very bright ones can be got now (along with crap of course)

rubadub

robfitz wrote:

Your only required to have a rear red reflector on a bicycle.

Is this only a reflector and not a light?

Or a reflector must be had in addition to a light?

Either way that is odd, or is is reflector during the day too.

EDIT: sorry just saw your other link
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI189Y1963.html#ZZSI189Y1963A33

Trojan

Blowback wrote:

Just point it lower to the ground.If you are a city cycllist it is not as if you need such a bright light to see where you are going.

Agreed about pointing it lower, when you're on a 2-way cycle-track.

But if you are a city cyclist then you need a very bright light just to stand out against a lot of other background light sources. It's fine being sure the guy on your tail sees you - but what about the lady pulling out from a side road, with a streetlight and other cars behind you - does your tiny LED disappear in the midst of all that illumination?

Titiritero

Saw a Garda tonight in the IFSC on a bike, and she had a flashing rear light, so despite of what the law says, the enforcers also agree that a flashing light is probably more visible than a still light...

My lights are both dynamo powered. Got the front one in Amsterdam, as well as the dynamo, and the rear one in Germany. It´s a "Standlicht", so it remains on when stopped at traffic lights. I couldn´t find a single shop in Dublin selling dynamo lights, all tried to convince me into the battery operated ones, using the size or lightness as reasoning. What if what I´m looking for is ecology (no used batteries to dispose/buy) and I don´t want to carry all my lights in the pocket each time I lock it, no matter how light they are??

robfitz

Titiritero wrote:

Saw a Garda tonight in the IFSC on a bike, and she had a flashing rear light, so despite of what the law says, the enforcers also agree that a flashing light is probably more visible than a still light...

In general the Gardaí are exempt from most road traffic regulations.

Raam

I'll wager that the Gardai couldn't give a fiddler's if a cyclist's light flashes or not

randomname2005

I'd say they are just happy that you have lights in the first place!!
R

Cabaal

randomname2005 wrote:

I'd say they are just happy that you have lights in the first place!!
R

I'd imagine so, al;though the amount of people on bikes each day that I see without lights is insane and cycling on the footpath is not acceptable just because you have no lights!

These people need to get some lights!

blorg

Flashing lights are explicitly legal in the UK. This was a recent change in the law. I believe they are not yet technically legal here (the issue is that flashing lights are only allowed on emergency vehicles) but as others have pointed in reality out no-one is going to object. I have two rear lights, one of which I leave on constant and one of which I put on flashing. The flashing one is one of those new Smart 1/2 watt ones which is _seriously_ bright.

vasch_ro

Bunnyhopper wrote:

@Verb - good point about having lights on you as well as the bike.


Does anyone know whether pedals here are supposed to have reflectors on them? I think it's a legal requirement in the UK but I don't know about here. Anyone ever get grief from the Guards about reflectors? (Just curious.)

It is a requirement, and people are prosecuted for it , though Ido not consider it giving grief to people

vasch_ro

King Raam wrote:

I'll wager that the Gardai couldn't give a fiddler's if a cyclist's light flashes or not

To be honest I wasn't aware of the regulation until I read Boards soem time ago it was discussed on this forum, obviously I cannot speak for other Gardai but I never use a flashing light and have mentioned to my cycling colleagues, I have spoken to one or two about it on the streets ....

Raam

vasch_ro wrote:

To be honest I wasn't aware of the regulation until I read Boards soem time ago it was discussed on this forum, obviously I cannot speak for other Gardai but I never use a flashing light and have mentioned to my cycling colleagues, I have spoken to one or two about it on the streets ....

I wonder has anyone ever been prosecuted for using flashing lights?

I use a flashing one for my rear light, which also has a non-flash mode. Front one doesn't flash though. I have considered getting a flashing front light, but only to try and draw the attention of some walkers and joggers who insist on heading straight down the cycle track from Clontarf to Sutton, seemingly oblivious to all the cyclist dodging them and the nice walking section right next to the cycle lane. Although, I've no foundation to say whether a flashy would actually help.

P

Cabaal

King Raam wrote:

Although, I've no foundation to say whether a flashy would actually help.

P

I'd say youd' have better luck with a very bright front lite and a bell or horn

tabatha

daymobrew wrote:

I think that reflective items are better than lights, when vehicles approach from behind. The reflective jacket/vest harnesses the power of the vehicle's lights (considerably more powerful than most bike lights). Often you'll see a reflective jacket well before you see the bike lights.
During the day the bright colour of these jackets works well.
And it is better than nothing.

I recently upgraded to Cateye EL-530 up front and Cateye TL-LD1100 at the back. 88 euro for the pair at BikeDock.com.
I also have a hi-viz cover for my backpack and a reflective band for my helmet.

what about front lights? when a car is turning left and looks in his mirrors sometimes its very hard to see a cyclist with no front lights in the dark. reflective items dont work in this instance.

Ciaran500

Anyone reccomend a set of lights? Preferably cheap and will last a reasonble amount of time on batteries.

Was looking at these and they sound good and have positive reviews.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15974

Raam

Cabaal wrote:

I'd say youd' have better luck with a very bright front lite and a bell or horn

I think a lance would be even better!

daymobrew

tabatha wrote:

what about front lights? when a car is turning left and looks in his mirrors sometimes its very hard to see a cyclist with no front lights in the dark. reflective items don't work in this instance.

I agree that not having front lights is risky in these situations. In this case the cyclist has to approach the situation in such a way as to minimise the risk e.g. slow down to let the car turn left (if the car had overtake the cyclist they would have seen their reflective gear).
For the situation where a cyclist without front lights approaches a left turn junction and a car is waiting to exit, the cyclist can choose to slow down to allow the car to turn.

daymobrew wrote:

And it is better than nothing.

Ideally everyone would have lights, but I give those with reflective gear a lot more credit than does with neither reflective gear or lights.

Civilian_Target

Ciaran500 wrote:

Anyone reccomend a set of lights? Preferably cheap and will last a reasonble amount of time on batteries.

Was looking at these and they sound good and have positive reviews.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15974

I use the back-light from that set as my backup, strapped to the saddle. It's pretty good, it's quite visible and very rugged. I've run it since the summer, probably averaging 90-120 mins run time a week and it's still going strong on the original batteries too...

Certainly better than the cheap and dirty cateyes you usually find!

Ciaran500

Thanks Civ, will have to order a set as soon as I get paid. You can have one less to moan about in this thread then

cyclopath2001

daymobrew wrote:

e.g. slow down to let the car turn left (if the car had overtake the cyclist they would have seen their reflective gear)....
For the situation where a cyclist without front lights approaches a left turn junction and a car is waiting to exit, the cyclist can choose to slow down to allow the car to turn.

While a confrontation with a car is best avoided, in the first situation, the driver has acted illegally by overtaking if the result would be to cut across the path of the cyclist. The regulations are very clear about this. Most drivers know this and will not cut across.

In the second scenario, unless a collision is inevitable, I would never give way to an exiting car, especially if the car is unlawfully obstructing the road, as it might lead the driver to expect that all cyclists will give way to them. Instead, I'll indicate prominently, move out and and give the car a wide berth, blocking following traffic as necessary.

I just use good, reliable, effective front and rear (constant) LED lamps with the regulation rear reflector and some reflective piping on the seams of my jacket. Personally, I think that excessive flashing lights and uncool sam-brownes and builders-bibs are counter-productive as they normally project an image of a slow-moving passive cyclist rather than a no-nonsense lycra-warrior. The colour-scheme of any crash-helmet worn is also important as it offers a great aid to visibility and to a driver observing your head movement in situations where indicating is impossible.

Obviously, I've learned to judge when to yield to motorist intimidation, or I would not be here!

Stark

By the way, speaking as a motorist (it's been a while since I used to cycle around Dublin), those high vis jackets you see some cyclists wearing are brilliant. You can see cyclists a mile off wearing them whereas those little blinkers can easily get lost amongst other lights.

cyclopath2001

Stark wrote:

By the way, speaking as a motorist (it's been a while since I used to cycle around Dublin), those high vis jackets you see some cyclists wearing are brilliant.

Hopefully, drivers will take similar measures to make their cars more visible, especially when parked.

cast_iron

cyclopath2001 wrote:

Hopefully, drivers will take similar measures to make their cars more visible, especially when parked.

Don a high-vis vest?

Stark

Reflective stripes to replace the go-faster ones

cyclopath2001

cast_iron wrote:

Don a high-vis vest?

Like choosing appropriate colours and using parking lights.

blorg

I have one of these Smart 1/2 Watt LEDs and it is seriously bright while still being very small and light. Only drawback is that battery life is not great, but then I use rechargables. If you root around on the internet you'll likely find somewhere that will do free postage to Ireland.

EDIT: Chain Reaction have this light for £13.99 with free shipping.