Head Shops Under Fire

D.U.M.B

This is bad news for head shop owners, people who enjoy legal highs and anybody who would like to see reform in drug laws

Pat Kenny was investigating head shops and their products today and the debate they are trying to get started is over Kratom, Salvia, Fly Agaric, and of course party pills. He is doing "right to reply " tomorrow (Thursday) and people should try and call in showing support to try and stifle the hysteria that might come of it. 0876272222 is the text line for the show and on air phone line 1850715900. It is very important that you get your feelings heard on this it is one year ago that this same ****e talk got mushies banned "10 am"

Call in speak your mind and keep an eye out for similar shows on the radio as this could snowball. For godsakes their legal products, hell why don't they ban alcohol

Red Alert

I haven't been living under a tub but can someone define a head shop here?

ruprect

Head shops would loosely be defined as premises that sell recreational drugs. They include tobacconists, off licences, pharmacists, supermarkets, cafes, and about 4-5 shops are in dublin that sell more unusual recreational drugs, those are the ones auld Pat is probably worried about and trying to cause a bit of hysteria.

-My son drank 10 pints, then took a kava kava pill and wrapped his car around a lampost, ban this stuff now!

There are 100's if not 1000's of recognized psychoactive plants out there, they will have a hard time listing them all.

mikedragon32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_shop

Wasn't sure what it was myself until I looked it up, but I know of shops like that around the place.

Personally I think that "legal highs" is a smokescreen and it's no coincidence that the OP who is upset at the possiblity of these shops being closed is also in favour of the legalisation of Marijuana: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52713291

shane86

D.U.M.B wrote:

This is bad news for head shop owners, people who enjoy legal highs and anybody who would like to see reform in drug laws

Pat Kenny was investigating head shops and their products today and the debate they are trying to get started is over ....... and of course party pills.

, hell why don't they ban alcohol

What age are you, 15? That party pills filth is more dangerous than most illegal drugs. Ban away, these shops are run by scumbags anyway.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

If we're banning drgus, can we ban alcohol, caffeine and nicotine too?

shane86

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

If we're banning drgus, can we ban alcohol, caffeine and nicotine too?

Seeing as the risk of fatally OD`ing on alcohol is very low, that only a tiny proportion of users are problem users and death from alcohol related causes usually takes at least 25 years of heavy usage its a no brainer.

Nicotine and caffeine, couldnt care less either way tbh. I can certainly see nicotine being phased out in my lifetime.

Terry

Oh for the love of god.

Do you own one of these head shops?

Sleepy

Ah ffs. When are we going to learn to let adults be adults, make their own decisions for themselves and suffer the consequences of those decisions if they turn out to be bad ones.

How does it harm society if I smoke some salvia/grass, take some mushrooms or have a few pints? Answer: it doesn't.

The worst effect possible is that if I become addicted to these substances to the point where I give up my job and am no longer contributing tax to the revenue.

We really are becoming more and more totalitarian a country.

User45701

Thats a load of crap

Black Swan

Don't breathe?

humanji

Sleepy wrote:

Ah ffs. When are we going to learn to let adults be adults, make their own decisions for themselves and suffer the consequences of those decisions if they turn out to be bad ones.

How does it harm society if I smoke some salvia/grass, take some mushrooms or have a few pints? Answer: it doesn't.

The worst effect possible is that if I become addicted to these substances to the point where I give up my job and am no longer contributing tax to the revenue.

We really are becoming more and more totalitarian a country.

Well maybe the world is about to be overrun by aliens and only you will be able to save us. But you'll be drunk/stones, so mankind will fall. Damn you Sleepy! Damn you straight to hell!

greine

D.U.M.B wrote:

Call in speak your mind and keep an eye out for similar shows on the radio as this could snowball. For godsakes their legal products, hell why don't they ban alcohol

I hadn't a clue what a head shop was until I looked it up just now. OP why have you justified your support for these shops and for the legalisation of marijuana by citing that alcohol and nicotine are just as bad, if not worse? I really would like if the arguments put forward were based on the "merit" of the drugs you want legalised and not just a comparison with alcohol and nicotine. They all can do harm, time for a bit of education and a bit of cop on, OP.

Terry

yep. and the medical marijuana arguement won't wash either, unless you have MS. in which case, there are other remedies out there.

Dragan

julep wrote:

yep. and the medical marijuana arguement won't wash either, unless you have MS. in which case, there are other remedies out there.

How about the argument of "I should be allowed to smoke dope because it's not harming anyone?"

I realise it is a very simple argument but i find it states a good case. People talk about "gateway this" and "X leads to Y" but the simple fact is that personality type and circumstance do more to get people on heavy drugs than smoking a little bit.

For me, there needs to be a degree of goal post moving on both sides....somethings need to always stay illegal, somethings are ( in my opinion ) fine to legalise.

ChRoMe

shane86 wrote:

Seeing as the risk of fatally OD`ing on alcohol is very low, that only a tiny proportion of users are problem users and death from alcohol related causes usually takes at least 25 years of heavy usage its a no brainer.

First I was laughing at this comment for being so stupid but then I started to lose my sense of humour about it. In Ireland it most defintely is not a "tiny proportion" of people with alcholol problems.

I spent 3 months in a drug detox program in one of Irelands biggest substance abuse clinics and there is a far greater problem with drink against illegal drugs in this country.

Alcholol manages to kill more people per year than all the illegal drugs put together.

Julep: I have a family member who suffers from glaucoma who uses cannabis as part of her medication. Its has beneficial uses for a number of different conditions not just MS.

In regards Pat Kenny he's stirring up **** to get interest in his show in one way I feel fair enough thats what the media does attempt to create a story when there isint one there. However in reality it has no significance at all, people who wish to use the services of headshops or drug dealers or whatever will do so no matter the legal status.

shane86

ChRoMe wrote:

First I was laughing at this comment for being so stupid but then I started to lose my sense of humour about it. In Ireland it most defintely is not a "tiny proportion" of people with alcholol problems.

I spent 3 months in a drug detox program in one of Irelands biggest substance abuse clinics and there is a far greater problem with drink against illegal drugs in this country.

Alcholol manages to kill more people per year than all the illegal drugs put together.
.

Maybe it kills more people because it has more users? "Tiny proportion" was admittedtly an exaggeration, in fact Id say most Irish males verge on alcoholism at some point in their lives, I have myself. However, the fact remains alcohol and most illegal drugs are safer for your mental and physical health than that BZP filth.

Heres a question- how many of the old men in the clinic were in there for illegal drug addiction in addition to drink compared to the proportion of young men in there for alcohol and *insert illegal substance* addiction?

greine

ChRoMe wrote:

Alcholol manages to kill more people per year than all the illegal drugs put together.

Like I said before, comparing alcohol with illegal drugs does not convince me that illegal drugs are safer, it's such a useless way to argue a point! I know many people, including family members, that drink too much or smoke too much dope, I don't think that one group of users are better off than the other, they all have made choices that are harmful to themselves and to those who love them.

Terry

ChRoMe wrote:

Julep: I have a family member who suffers from glaucoma who uses cannabis as part of her medication. Its has beneficial uses for a number of different conditions not just MS.

i thought of that and cancer and other things after hitting submit, but i was too lazt to go back and edit my post.
i ****ing knew someone would pick up on it though.

Dargan wrote:

I realise it is a very simple argument but i find it states a good case. People talk about "gateway this" and "X leads to Y" but the simple fact is that personality type and circumstance do more to get people on heavy drugs than smoking a little bit.

So do you only legalise cannabis for certain personality types and people in certain areas?
where are you going to put the goal posts?

ScumLord

I had to laugh when I saw that guy on the news last night going on about the dangers of these drugs "they cause you to jump out windows". Just like most of the people that will cause these drugs (most of which are completely ****e BZP is nothing more than a glorified pep pill) to be banned they haven't a clue what their talking about, they just hear recreational drug and imediately assume the world. If someone told them young ones are using Asprin as a party drug they'd ban that too.

julep wrote:

yep. and the medical marijuana arguement won't wash either, unless you have MS. in which case, there are other remedies out there.

That don't work or have terrible side effects I think it's disgusting that MS sufferes would be denied something that makes their lifes easier. Cannabis can help allot of people from cronic pain suffers to people with cateracts.

There's no reason to ban these other head shop drugs but I'm sure that it'll happen.

Terry

that's fine, but i don't see it as applicable to recreational users.

connundrum

Feckin hippies

People have a destructive nature in general, and if we go with the 'let the people have what they want' option ie. we are all adults, then there will be a whole lot of deaths.

But I'm all for thinning out the herd.

ScumLord

julep wrote:

that's fine, but i don't see it as applicable to recreational users.

That's fair enough but there is no argument against medical cannabis. It's a source of relief for people with chronic incurable diseases.

po0k

Shower of morons.

Legalise clinical trials and testing of any substance to establish it's effects - short-term, longterm, and in combination with other common substances ie. alcohol, coffee - this isn't even being done with pharmaceuticals today.
Once a significant body of data has been gathered and analysed, then decide how to legislate for legal status, consumption, limits etc.

In tandem, factual education about substances and physiology should be the immediate result of such research by peer-review. Far too many people (from any age, gender, socio-economic background) simply don't know how to drink.

The major obstacle to any of this is money and funding. Pharma companies want us to keep popping pills. Law enforcement want increased resources and funding. Trafficing in illegal goods fuels the black market and generates funds for criminal organisations. Look at the sh1te state of affairs in Dublin. Drive-by shootings and ambushes on the M50. This is what we're left with now the provos have stepped down.

Being afraid of plants while accepting that learning more about them is 'criminal' is incredibly ignorant and simply untenable.

Quite simply, if someone doesn't know what they're ingesting, who is at fault? Our society, for making the knowledge difficult or unacceptable to access? The person, for not making more of an effort to educate themselves?

War Is Peace.
Freedom Is Slavery.
Ignorance Is Strength.

Turn those on their head with "Knowledge Is Power".

I have a recording of Pat's last show regarding the mushrooms. In fairness to him, he did try to maintain a balance, tackling Dermot Ahern over the [then] illegal seizure of [then] legal mushrooms by customs and the absence of compenstation for destroyed stock.

Quite simply, if you wish to 'experiment' with pyschotropic stubstances, learn to crawl before you sprint. Jumping off a building is Darwinism in action. There are too many people in the world already.

ChRoMe

greine wrote:

Like I said before, comparing alcohol with illegal drugs does not convince me that illegal drugs are safer, it's such a useless way to argue a point! I know many people, including family members, that drink too much or smoke too much dope, I don't think that one group of users are better off than the other, they all have made choices that are harmful to themselves and to those who love them.

Apologies I must have come across differently then I meant to. I'm not saying that illegal drugs are safer far from it. I was just attempting to point out the total hypocrisy of having alcohol legal and then sitrring up media controversey about other drugs. This is anecdotal evidence but I think it will help to illustrate where I'm coming from.

I've abused pretty much any illegal drug you can name at some point in my life. However some of the worst immediate after effects (or come down) I have gotten from alcholol. Found it no problem going into work after 4 or 5 E's the night before but after 12 pints I'd feel much worse. During my time in detox I was in some from of therapy (CBT, group etc etc) for 6 hours a day. I sat and heard many different stories and feelings from all over the country who had abused many different things (the vast majority were soley alcholoics). Since a lot of them didnt do drugs they had a hard time relating to me in group sessions becuase its hard to convey to a middle age alcholic what it feels like to put half an ounce of cocaine up your nose in one sitting. To be honest I feel that most of them looked down on me seeing my addiction as worse than theirs.

Funny thing was that at the time all of them experienced far worse withdrawl symptoms than me. I recall having breakfast one morning and the guy next to me had such shakey hands that he managed to spill a pot of scalding hot tea all over my legs. I mean his hands were like he was holding a jack hammer (those machines used to break up the roads). When they learned that I was also dealing drugs they used to give out that I was ruining other peoples lives and such things. The irony which allways seemed to escape them is that after giving me **** for ten minutes in group they would proceed (with a totally straight face) to recount how every night they would drink more than ten pints and then get into their car and drive home. They couldnt see how absurd it was to be giving me crap and then them drink driving.

I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong in the debate about drugs. But I feel that I might be more qualified than most to speak about the subject so here it is.

1) Drugs legal or illegal can do you a great amount of harm and should be all treated with the same attitude. None of this "well sure its only drink, I'm not doing drugs" alcholol is a drug

2)In order to have an intelligent structured debate about the subject the following fact must be taken into account. People have been doing drugs for thousands of years and will contuine to do so. Nobody can stop it its as old as time itself. The issue is how we decide to deal with the situation.

3)People who are addicted (many people happy use drugs illegal or legal without addictions happening) are sick. They are not criminals and should not be treated as such.

Oh and one last thing. Ireland has a very unhealthy attitude towards drinks and drugs in general there are a few factors but I think the biggest are its socially acceptable to be seen intoxicated in public.

Also backwards oppression still exsisting from the integration of church and state prohibts sensible progressive thinking on the subject. These problems are not exclusive to Ireland but I must admit I live a much better life being out of a country with these attitudes.

Now let the flames begin

Dragan

julep wrote:

So do you only legalise cannabis for certain personality types and people in certain areas?
where are you going to put the goal posts?

That’s a dangerous question to as me dude!!! I firmly believe people should need a written test before they are allowed to have kids!!!

But you misinterpretted my point, or I didn't put it across the best, in which case I apologise! One of the main arguments that I hear against legalisation of softer drugs is the gateway theory, that X leads to Y and so on. It's more about personality than anything else and the people who need that crutch will always find something be it booze, heroin or nail polish in a plastic bag!!

Speaking as someone who has a lot of experience and has made good choices and bad I honestly cannot look at any point in my life that was bad and say that smoking a bit of weed caused it!!

Now no doubt some people will become psychologically dependant on it. I recently had to have a stern chat with a friend of mine who I feel is relying on it a bit too much and not dealing with what needs to be dealt with.

As for the legalisation issue you simply legalise it. People are responsible for there own decisions and choices….. I know it's not the greatest comparison but you couldn't band booze because of the alchoholics, ya know?

manonthemoon

ChRoMe wrote:

Apologies I must have come across differently then I meant to. I'm not saying that illegal drugs are safer far from it. I was just attempting to point out the total hypocrisy of having alcohol legal and then sitrring up media controversey about other drugs. This is anecdotal evidence but I think it will help to illustrate where I'm coming from.

I've abused pretty much any illegal drug you can name at some point in my life. However some of the worst immediate after effects (or come down) I have gotten from alcholol. Found it no problem going into work after 4 or 5 E's the night before but after 12 pints I'd feel much worse. During my time in detox I was in some from of therapy (CBT, group etc etc) for 6 hours a day. I sat and heard many different stories and feelings from all over the country who had abused many different things (the vast majority were soley alcholoics). Since a lot of them didnt do drugs they had a hard time relating to me in group sessions becuase its hard to convey to a middle age alcholic what it feels like to put half an ounce of cocaine up your nose in one sitting. To be honest I feel that most of them looked down on me seeing my addiction as worse than theirs.

Funny thing was that at the time all of them experienced far worse withdrawl symptoms than me. I recall having breakfast one morning and the guy next to me had such shakey hands that he managed to spill a pot of scalding hot tea all over my legs. I mean his hands were like he was holding a jack hammer (those machines used to break up the roads). When they learned that I was also dealing drugs they used to give out that I was ruining other peoples lives and such things. The irony which allways seemed to escape them is that after giving me **** for ten minutes in group they would proceed (with a totally straight face) to recount how every night they would drink more than ten pints and then get into their car and drive home. They couldnt see how absurd it was to be giving me crap and then them drink driving.

I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong in the debate about drugs. But I feel that I might be more qualified than most to speak about the subject so here it is.

1) Drugs legal or illegal can do you a great amount of harm and should be all treated with the same attitude. None of this "well sure its only drink, I'm not doing drugs" alcholol is a drug

2)In order to have an intelligent structured debate about the subject the following fact must be taken into account. People have been doing drugs for thousands of years and will contuine to do so. Nobody can stop it its as old as time itself. The issue is how we decide to deal with the situation.

3)People who are addicted (many people happy use drugs illegal or legal without addictions happening) are sick. They are not criminals and should not be treated as such.

Oh and one last thing. Ireland has a very unhealthy attitude towards drinks and drugs in general there are a few factors but I think the biggest are its socially acceptable to be seen intoxicated in public.

Also backwards oppression still exsisting from the integration of church and state prohibts sensible progressive thinking on the subject. These problems are not exclusive to Ireland but I must admit I live a much better life being out of a country with these attitudes.

Now let the flames begin

By God, this subject is boring and has been done to death on about a bazillion threads.

Mods, Can we start a new board for Hippies?

ChRoMe

manonthemoon wrote:

By God, this subject is boring and has been done to death on about a bazillion threads.

Mods, Can we start a new board for Hippies?

Its a important issue to a lot of people hence the amount of posts on the subject. If you dont like the discussions you are not forced to take part. But please dont insult other people by stating a issue they feel is important is boring.

Or I'll put it another way incase that seemed too wordy.

Shut up and Piss off

Sleepy

manonthemoon, congratulations, that is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen on boards.ie, you must be very proud.

Whether you agree or disagree with ChRoMe, his post was intelligent, knowledgeable, very open and quite a personal thing to discuss even behind the 'anonymity' of a boards.ie username. Flipping it off in such a casual manner is incredibly insulting.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

greine wrote:

I hadn't a clue what a head shop was until I looked it up just now. OP why have you justified your support for these shops and for the legalisation of marijuana by citing that alcohol and nicotine are just as bad, if not worse? I really would like if the arguments put forward were based on the "merit" of the drugs you want legalised and not just a comparison with alcohol and nicotine. They all can do harm, time for a bit of education and a bit of cop on, OP.

1) I think he was being sarcastic and 2) I seriously doubt he'll be back. Kind of loses my attention when someone appears, makes one post looking for help and then buggers off again never tio be heard from again.

beans

All of the botanicals they sell in those shops are unscheduled substances. These headshops bring such botanicals to the attention of lawmakers in the form of 'bad trip' stories and incidents such as that poor chap who killed himself that time high on mushrooms and wine.

"These substances are fundamentally evil, so say my outraged constituants, so I'm going to see them scheduled" etc

As it stands, you can obtain all these botanicals and many more legally from wholesale stores online, at a fraction of the cost. Headshops only serve to make the owners rich (1000% markups anyone?) and attract negative attention to the substances therein. I would'nt loose any sleep if they went away.

Terry

ChRoMe wrote:

Its a important issue to a lot of people hence the amount of posts on the subject. If you dont like the discussions you are not forced to take part. But please dont insult other people by stating a issue they feel is important is boring.

Or I'll put it another way incase that seemed too wordy.

Shut up and Piss off

Attack the post, not the poster.

Dragan wrote:

That’s a dangerous question to as me dude!!! I firmly believe people should need a written test before they are allowed to have kids!!!

so do I.

ScumLord

As it stands, you can obtain all these botanicals and many more legally from wholesale stores online, at a fraction of the cost. Headshops only serve to make the owners rich (1000% markups anyone?) and attract negative attention to the substances therein. I would'nt loose any sleep if they went away.

Damn them capitolist scum for making profit! That's how business works man, I wouldn't hold it against them.

If their made illegal and you buy online your still breaking the law. You could possibly even be considered an international drug smuggeler, how many years in jail would that get you.

manonthemoon

Sleepy wrote:

manonthemoon, congratulations, that is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever seen on boards.ie, you must be very proud.

.

Yes I am.

Thank you



..

ChRoMe

ScumLord wrote:

You could possibly even be considered an international drug smuggeler, how many years in jail would that get you.

No you wouldnt be considered a smuggler.

slipss

beans wrote:

All of the botanicals they sell in those shops are unscheduled substances. These headshops bring such botanicals to the attention of lawmakers in the form of 'bad trip' stories and incidents such as that poor chap who killed himself that time high on mushrooms and wine.

"These substances are fundamentally evil, so say my outraged constituants, so I'm going to see them scheduled" etc

As it stands, you can obtain all these botanicals and many more legally from wholesale stores online, at a fraction of the cost. Headshops only serve to make the owners rich (1000% markups anyone?) and attract negative attention to the substances therein. I would'nt loose any sleep if they went away.

I see your point regarding head shops beans, but I don't agree completely. Of course headshops mark up the prices of their stock, the same as Dixons mark up the price of the DVD players they sell when they order them from sony or whoever, thats normal business practice and is how retailers earn profits. If Dixons were one of only a handfull of businesses in Ireland to sell DVD players you can be garaunteed they'd have a much higher mark up aswell.

I think headshops do serve a purpose, I for one find it convenient to be able to just pop into town to buy whatever I want in one, rather than having to order from the internet in advance and wait for delivery. Also it means you have the option of going back to the shop and complaining if you are sold a faulty or damaged product, which is a lot more difficult to do via the net. Now obviously it depends on the shop but the one I frequent were as professional and understanding as any mainstream shop the couple of times I had issue with the condition of the products I purchased and offered me the choice of a replacement or my money back.

As for them bringing negative attention on the products they stock, well I do agree there, but that is not wholely the fault of the shops themselves, it has a lot to do with the illinformed people that have very little else to do and go looking for a cause to fight, and through prejadiced(sc) eyes see these shops as little more than evil pied pipers trying to destroy society and warp the minds of their fragile little children. The same fragile little children that are probably sitting in a field every friday night drinking WKD and inhaling lighter fluid while mammies busy off at a council meeting fighting to help rid the world of the evil shops when she should be at home with her kids.

beans

@ slipps, I take your point about marking up the stock they sell. They sell at prices that the buyer will pay, as is to be expected.

I generally frequented a certain shop on Capel St., not just for head products but other cosmetics and foodstuffs etc. It's nice that head sales supplement such shops, as without the extra revenue they may not exist. The shop in question would be missed if it closed, lovely staff and good produce.

I just fear that mis-use of certain items is going to spark a witch-hunt, and once that happens they'll have to find something else to hok to perpetuate their existance, and so the cycle continues. That's all, and that would be a shame for everyone.

And I agree, education is the key. For the shop owners, the customers, the parents, the children, everyone.

ruprect

Yes the mark up on recreational drugs is horrendous. There are some headshops that get one particular plant fruit containing a stimulant with effects similar to amphetamine they grind it up there and then and use hot water as a solvent to extract the active chemicals from it, some people add sugar to this since the concoction is not palatable to them otherwise. Many doctors consider this drug to be more dangerous than amphetamine with worse side effects. Some places even sell this in a concentrated pill form so users can take it far more easily.

The headshops are getting the raw ingredients for about 5-10cent per dose, yet can charge up to €4 to the unwitting customers for this stuff, massive mark up. One of the best know evil headshops selling this stuff is called Bewleys.

I wonder if the government is going to propose free buses to cart people from rural areas into the headshops in major cities, it is unfair that they cannot go to these shops, enjoy a small dose of recreational drugs and then be expected to walk home since they are unfit to drive. These places are the only social outlet for some rural dwellers.

And all this crap about banning alcohol, etc, alcohol & cigarettes are not drugs you fools, if Pat Kenny, my mammy, my daddy, the local priest and sargent take these substances then they surely must be perfectly fine. How on earth could you consider making them illegal, they have been in use for 1000's of years so must be OK, and could never be banned. Those magic mushrooms were banned overnight, but sure they were only in use for a year at most and everybody who took them insisted on taking massive doses and jumped out windows or cut their eyeballs out. Nobody would ever take alcohol to excess.

If any medicinal drug has the potential to make people happy or give them an altered state of conciousness then it should be banned immediately. Dextromethorphan in childrens robitussin should be banned.
Dipenhydramine for hayfever and in sleeping tablets can cause hallucinations and should also be outlawed.

ScumLord

The funny thing about all this whopla is that this evening I plan to go up to galway and buy some of that there fly crap it's like free advertising I bet the place will be packed. I did the same thing when shrooms where on the way out.

beans wrote:

And I agree, education is the key. For the shop owners, the customers, the parents, the children, everyone.

Ok Timmy, turn off power rangers we have allot to talk about. This, is cocaine. Hand me my wallet daddys going to show you how to have a good time and avoid buying ****e.

brianthebard

Dragan wrote:

That’s a dangerous question to as me dude!!! I firmly believe people should need a written test before they are allowed to have kids!!!

I'd go further than that...

But you misinterpretted my point, or I didn't put it across the best, in which case I apologise! One of the main arguments that I hear against legalisation of softer drugs is the gateway theory, that X leads to Y and so on. It's more about personality than anything else and the people who need that crutch will always find something be it booze, heroin or nail polish in a plastic bag!!

Very good point. Newsweek had quoted a survey during the summer that said that 3% of cannabis users become heroin addicts, which is the same percentage of the population that never smoked cannabis and still became heroin users. So there is no gateway. I could try and find the study, but I'm lazy and have a tutorial in a few minutes

baztard

Sleepy wrote:

Ah ffs. When are we going to learn to let adults be adults, make their own decisions for themselves and suffer the consequences of those decisions if they turn out to be bad ones.

Agreed. This is yet another infringement on our freedom. We are no longer free to make our own decisions.

beans

ScumLord wrote:

Ok Timmy, turn off power rangers we have allot to talk about. This, is cocaine. Hand me my wallet daddys going to show you how to have a good time and avoid buying ****e.

Parents boozing it up in front of their kids and exposing them to the fallout is basically doing just this. Education on addiction and harm reduction from an early age would save a lot of pain in the future IMO.

So you're off to buy some fly (agaric?) because of what's being said here; have you thought about the effects it's going to have on you, do you even know what it is? It's this laissez-faire attitude to substances that I meant education could help with.

Tha Gopher

brianthebard wrote:

Very good point. Newsweek had quoted a survey during the summer that said that 3% of cannabis users become heroin addicts, which is the same percentage of the population that never smoked cannabis and still became heroin users. So there is no gateway. I could try and find the study, but I'm lazy and have a tutorial in a few minutes

I love the smell of AH drugs threads in the morning. Smells like....bullsh1t.

Honest to god, why do these threads attract such retardation? Brian, how many fcuking junkies do you know whos first taste of drugs was smoking heroin at 13? Your typical junkie started on fags at 9, tried glue next, then got his hands on drink at 11, was smoking hash by 13, on yokes by 14 and hitting heroin by by 15. I dont know too many people who have never smoked a joint,but of those I do know, they are health conscious people who wouldnt go near gear.

Chrome- no offence but for a recovering drug addict you would think experience would have given you sense.

I drink. I smoke twice plus daily. I partake in the occasional yokeage at dance nights. I generally avoid the coke unless its free (seeing as ive seen the financial difficulty and mental illness the stuff causes). But at least Ive the sense to realise that heavy hash usage has negative impact (I used to smoke 3 before college, 2 in college, another 2 when i got home, go out, come home an hour later and smoke 4 before bed). Some here and on the other thread are taking the piss. As one poster said, most hash smokers do verge on addiction (myself included).

Baztard- the government doesnt care what you put in your body. It does, however, get bothered by the tax money used to treat addiction, overdoses, jail people who steal to feed habits, treat those injured in car accidents etc etc.

Grow up ffs

brianthebard

Tha Gopher wrote:

Honest to god, why do these threads attract such retardation? Brian, how many fcuking junkies do you know whos first taste of drugs was smoking heroin at 13? Your typical junkie started on fags at 9, tried glue next, then got his hands on drink at 11, was smoking hash by 13, on yokes by 14 and hitting heroin by by 15. I dont know too many people who have never smoked a joint,but of those I do know, they are health conscious people who wouldnt go near gear.

How was my point less valid than yours? How many junkies do you know full stop? I offered information from Newsweek, and will try and find the quote to back it up. I didn't say it made cannabis all right. I didn't say we should legalise it? why don't you just step back behind that gun you just jumped?

Tha Gopher

brianthebard wrote:

How was my point less valid than yours? How many junkies do you know full stop? I offered information from Newsweek, and will try and find the quote to back it up. I didn't say it made cannabis all right. I didn't say we should legalise it? why don't you just step back behind that gun you just jumped?

You arent honestly telling me you believe people who have never smoked are as likely to take heroin?

ruprect

I would agree with Tha Gopher on that. Highly unlikely, but still absolute faulty logic to brand it a gateway drug. I would imagine something like 99% of heroin addicts have smoked cannabis, but I would imagine 100% of them started out on caffeine. People would laugh at you if you suggested it was a gateway drug.

Keeping cannabis illegal keeps most users in contact with the underworld, where they have access to other drugs. A greater amount of drug users are on more harmful legal drugs, simply because they are legal, and the illegality and lack of source of others deters them.

Even the gardai have stopped using the gateway drug theory in any statements, they realise how ignorant and stupid it sounds, it weakens their argument against hard drugs.

ScumLord

Channel 4 did a series a year or two ago that stated that it's more likely that cigarettes are the "gateway drug" because it makes some change to the brain so your more likely to become addicted to substances in the future. They almost train the brain to depend on chemicals. Although I'd say taking heroin or any other addictive drug may have the same effect it's just cigarettes get in their first. Luckily Cannabis is not physically addictive, you might like it allot and smoke as much as you can but your not addicted in the strictest sense of the word.

Giblet

Jesus Christ, threads such as these make me fear for humanity. The thread gets dominated by idiots who are either so anti drug they make stupid connections and make silly assumptions, and then we have "Sure I take E's they have to be grand." Does no-one do any actual research so they avoid saying such things as "Sure let the druggies die, those head shops and their BZP will thin out the herds" while sipping their pints and saying alcohol has never harmed anyone.

I should make it against the rules to make statements without showing your research, like in school. Show your workings children!