Too many IT job vacancies

kc66

I hate this crap the media pick up on around this time every year. There are not enough computer graduates to fill the jobs. It is totally untrue. Myself and other people I know have completed tough IT degrees and done well in them. Yet where are all these high paid jobs with no graduates to fill them they are talking about on the news all day?
They are trying to fill college places but it is unfair on people that may end up with no job at the end of the day.
I always know when the CAO forms are due in as I hear this story on the news.

axer

Maybe they are saying it wrong. I think what they should be saying is that there are not enough "good" computer graduates out there. I know a lot of people who did computer degrees (systems, programming etc) in college yet they don't even know or find it difficult to under stand basic computer stuff. They just know what they are taught and don't have the common sense or the will to learn new things. In an industry like IT it is vital that those looking to stay in the industry or progress in the industry learn new skills by themselves and have a will to do so.

From what I can see there isn't enough of those type of people in Ireland.

Nody

Requirements:
5+ years hands on experience
Married with children
25 years old
Uni degree
Appropiate hard and software related certifications (and not A+ level
Willing to work for €25k a year, no paid OT

Seriously though, usually what is lacking is experienced people with high level certifcation (a.k.a. CCIA etc.) and with special compentenices/market knowledge as no one want to train a person up for 2+ years to get there only to have them leave once there after such a investment.

As for IT degrees (at College/Uni level), most are not worth the paper they are printed on in my experience (for going live in a real enviroment mind you) as they tend to be far to focused on theorycraft and not enough on hands on experience (and no, a 10 week project is not enough, make that a year and we're talking (; ). They form a base for future training but that is it, they are far from the level people need to achieve and obviously don't have anything company specific.

kc66

I agree with both posts. But why is it being brought up every year to entice people into courses that offer little or nothing. They are leading people to believe that you are guaranteed a good high paid job because there is nobody elso to do it. It is providing a very false sense of security.
I am lucky enough to have built up experience in various jobs when I finished college but found it difficult to get started. And many people are in the same boat.

kmick

Its the same old story
1) Industry booms - attracts people in.
2) Industry goes bust 2001/2004 people stop doing It and change to Business/Commerce/Arts or whatever.
3) Come 2007 there is a shortage of good experienced people.

I think also a lot of people who did not even like IT were attracted to it by the money in the glory days of late 1990's. Then they discovered they hated IT and dropped out. Also I did an IT course in 1999 and we all got jobs in 2000. The guys who did the course in in 2000 could not get jobs so they transferred back to Engineering or whatever there major degrees were in.

Its all good for me though less people means higher wages for me - you just have to be able to ride out the troughs. I was unemployed a lot in those troughs but did not abondon cause I am a nerd.

mick.fr

...missed

easyontheeye

How many of those IT jobs are in the support area? I'd like to know that. just because media says there is an IT shortage does not mean there is a shortage of "highly technical IT jobs" , a majority of them are probably entry level tech support jobs. Who needs a degree to do that!

The problem for IT graduates is that 70% will probably have no choice but to start in tech support. Although there are alot of grad jobs in porgramming, system design, networks , telecoms etc...there aint that enough to satisfy all grads.

ZygOte

easyontheeye wrote:

How many of those IT jobs are in the support area? I'd like to know that. just because media says there is an IT shortage does not mean there is a shortage of "highly technical IT jobs" , a majority of them are probably entry level tech support jobs. Who needs a degree to do that!

I agree with you here, the media also love to jump on stories where there is a loss of X amount of IT jobs because X company is pulling out, in reality when this happens to some high profile tech company 90% of the job losses are often people working on production lines.

Without wishing to being disriminatory, working on a factory production line for a tech company hardly makes you a tech employee.But none the less the media et all will jump all over it.

ZygOte

easyontheeye wrote:

The problem for IT graduates is that 70% will probably have no choice but to start in tech support. Although there are alot of grad jobs in porgramming, system design, networks , telecoms etc...there aint that enough to satisfy all grads.

sorry just curious here, can you define "tech support" for me maybe we have two differnt opinions on what this is, i dont see starting in tech support as being neccesarrily a bad thing depending on your qualification. do you mean programmers and say chip designers starting off answering a phone in dell?

easyontheeye

ZygOte wrote:

sorry just curious here, can you define "tech support" for me maybe we have two differnt opinions on what this is, i dont see starting in tech support as being neccesarrily a bad thing depending on your qualification. do you mean programmers and say chip designers starting off answering a phone in dell?

yes sorry for being vague, I mean many of us who spent 4 years studying for a degree did not expect to leave college only to work in 1st level tech support i.e. resetting windows passwords, outlook problems etc.

i know graduates cannot be choosy and all that but it is disappointing, jobs in Dell etc 6/7 years ago would only require a leaving cert, now they are advertising these positions requiring a degree. I worked in tech support for about 8 months and was almost about to through the towel in and retrain until i finally got a break and got a job i wanted to do. But somepeople that were there for years and could never get a a job in development, test ...etc after 2/3 years

Nody

easyontheeye wrote:

But somepeople that were there for years and could never get a a job in development, test ...etc after 2/3 years

Which only means they got unrealistic expectations on how much their knowledge from Uni is worth. I recall a company I was with before who said it best, after you finish your degree we'll teach you what you actually need to know and it is very true. One of my biggest grips with Uni studies and what not, far far to little reality involved and far to much back slapping and theorycrafting in their own lala world.

chump

easyontheeye wrote:

yes sorry for being vague, I mean many of us who spent 4 years studying for a degree did not expect to leave college only to work in 1st level tech support i.e. resetting windows passwords, outlook problems etc.

When I see and hear things like this it makes good on my decision not to go into IT. I was working in these roles when I was 16.

I completely agree that the media throw out any old BS. It's the same with science degrees. It said there's a huge shortage of grads etc., but ask a science grad about prospects after their degree. I can tell you they're few and far between and mostly unrelated to science.

ZygOte

easyontheeye wrote:

yes sorry for being vague, I mean many of us who spent 4 years studying for a degree did not expect to leave college only to work in 1st level tech support i.e. resetting windows passwords, outlook problems etc.

i know graduates cannot be choosy and all that but it is disappointing, jobs in Dell etc 6/7 years ago would only require a leaving cert, now they are advertising these positions requiring a degree. I worked in tech support for about 8 months and was almost about to through the towel in and retrain until i finally got a break and got a job i wanted to do. But somepeople that were there for years and could never get a a job in development, test ...etc after 2/3 years

i see your point alright, but i dont neccesarrily agree 100% , agreed it can certainly be difficult when you start out, a lot of companies do expect overwhelming qualifications for rather underwhelming jobs, but at the same time its not realisitic to expect to leave college and get a top notch job. ive been in the industry just over 8 years now since i finished college and i do count myself very lucky, i started out working part time for a company while i was in college working at night patching cables of all things but they took me on full time when i finished college as a junior tech support, now i started out on terrible money and doing terrible work but i worked my ass off (im still with the same company now) and now im almost at the top of my game, i make great money and work as a senior consultant on all kinds of weird and wonderful stuff, often putting together systems than span the globe.

so i guess the point im trying to make is that you do need to start somewhere and more than likley it will be at the bottom, but where you go from there is up to you. its difficult to know how the industry works until your actually in it and some of the larger more faceless companies just want to employ drones to do their work.

wheres me jumpa

Ive just graduated and found a job. A comment I would make about my class in general is that it was filled with people who "ended up" in IT. People who had very little interest in the course and were happy to scrape by every year. People coming out with bad results and struggling to remember half the things they were thought never mind call upon any experience.

Alot of people seem to end up in IT. Anyone with an Xbox thinks they will coast through an IT course.

I think its unfair that these people can come out and complain about the lack of opportunites available to them. I spent a month looking for work, it was frustrating, but this was largely due to a lack of experience on my behalf. It was certainly not from lack of vacancies and/or interviews.

newestUser

As regards the comment someone made about having after spent 4 years in Uni, they were unwilling to reset Windows passwords and the like, I'd like to point out that people who study Business and Finance who then work as trainee accountants end up counting tyres in scrapyards for audits. People who study nursing end up wiping peoples arses in hospitals. "Crappy", unglamourous work straight out of college is par for the course for most people as far as I can see. I also don't think it's realistic to complain that 6/7 years ago you could get a job in Dell doing tech support with a leaving cert, and now you can't. 6/7 years ago was smack bang in the middle of the dot-com bubble. The IT jobs market was a freak show back then. I don't think you can take that point in time as the norm as far as job opportunities go, and criticise the current situation because it's not as heavily in favour of job seekers.

GrumPy

ZygOte wrote:

i started out working part time for a company while i was in college working at night patching cables of all things but they took me on full time when i finished college as a junior tech support, now i started out on terrible money and doing terrible work but i worked my ass off (im still with the same company now) and now im almost at the top of my game, i make great money and work as a senior consultant on all kinds of weird and wonderful stuff, often putting together systems than span the globe.

Give me a job

Nehpets

eek, just put Computer Science as #1 on my CAO. Mistake? lol

ZygOte

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Give me a job

pm me......

BostonB

kc66 wrote:

I agree with both posts. But why is it being brought up every year to entice people into courses that offer little or nothing. They are leading people to believe that you are guaranteed a good high paid job because there is nobody elso to do it. It is providing a very false sense of security.
...

Ask yourself who makes money from these meaningless tabloid stats. The colleges? Who?

Raskolnikov

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=business-qqqm=business-qqqa=business-qqqid=24302-qqqx=1.asp

The report comes from DCU, obviously they have a vested interest in filling their course numbers. They'll make more money having 200 people doing a Computer Applications course rather than 100.

The problem with IT education in Ireland is that we have a 1-size fits all approach. We ought to have 1-2 year certs for people who want to get into tech support. We ought to have specific qualifications for people who want to go into the network/server/administration area, etc. How many IT degrees in Ireland teach .Net, the most sought after programming enviroment in the industry at the moment?

leeroybrown

DCU in particular have been pushing IT quite hard around CAO selection time for the last two/three years. I does coincide with a general increase in marketing of third level courses and institutes.

I work in IT and have gotten a good job I like out of it but if someone I knew was filling out their CAO application I'd be advising them to seriously consider if it's something that they are definitely interested in doing for many years.

Ultimately I might end up leaving IT as a lot of people seem to be doing at around the ten year mark.

OfflerCrocGod

Nody wrote:

As for IT degrees (at College/Uni level), most are not worth the paper they are printed on in my experience (for going live in a real enviroment mind you) as they tend to be far to focused on theorycraft and not enough on hands on experience (and no, a 10 week project is not enough, make that a year and we're talking (; ). They form a base for future training but that is it, they are far from the level people need to achieve and obviously don't have anything company specific.

Yes my degree was a total waste of time - a very depressing experience for me I must say

MisterAnarchy

IT ,what exactly is the IT industry ?
I hear it all the time,I'm in IT .
It seems to be the most overused word in the last 10 years.
It seems to encompass everything from making the tea in Dell to splitting the atom.
Its ludicrous.
Lots of IT jobs,but very few decent ones for skilled people.

leeroybrown

MisterAnarchy wrote:

Lots of IT jobs,but very few decent ones for skilled people.

I'm reminded of a meeting I was at where someone 'important' stated that IT people will work for next to nothing.

It's difficult get well paid to do a really good job when there are hundreds more people who will do a mediocre one for less.

stepbar

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Yes my degree was a total waste of time - a very depressing experience for me I must say

Here here to that.......

damnyanks

Well there is only 1 person to blame for that at the end of the day. With regards to jobs and careers I think you need to be proactive and chase what you want to get into. So far I believe I've been reasonbly successful in placing myself within positions to get into my desired area.

And my degree was far from a waste. Apart from learning a lot of interesting info I've had a blast

DublinWriter

BostonB wrote:

Ask yourself who makes money from these meaningless tabloid stats. The colleges? Who?

Bingo.

Having worked in IT for umpteen years myself, during most of that time I was chasing a BSc and an MSc part-time, I can hand on heart say that these rumours always originate from third-level institutions and are fed into the media.

Basically the amount of people taking up IT-related degrees is falling through the floor since 2001 and the Computer Science departments of major universities are very rattled.

I know of many graduates in Computer Science from 2005/2006 who are still working on helpdesks as first-level call-takers...basically data-entry receptionists.

A lot of the problem is also down to the wider sector - many companies employing people want very specific skill sets with very specific products (i.e. Oracle 10g DBA) and aren't prepared to take a chance taking on a raw-graduate.

Myself, if I was starting over again, I'd stay well clear of I.T. as a career choice.

0ubliette

when i finished my course the first job i got was tech support in eircom. I did a year long IT course in Fas, doing networking and maintenance. I felt sorry for everyone else i worked with cause most of them were graduates from 4 year long computer science courses, and they were stuck as phone monkeys in eircom. Managed to get away from there and do another **** job, but now im sitting pretty working as an IT guy for a govt. agency.
Its stupid to think that youll leave college and walk straight into a 40 grand a year sweet IT job. Its not going to happen. Unless youve got a year or 2's work experience, or know someone who can get you into a good position, you WILL start at the bottom of the ladder, and thats tech support.

jesus_thats_gre

ZygOte wrote:

pm me......

asl?

whitelightrider

Irish GrumPy wrote:

Give me a job

And me Zygote!!! Im in the same technical area as you. Started off patching cables and stuff.

bennyc

Well it could be worse I am based in the north west and outside of letterkenny there are f$%k all "IT" jobs going. I am in tech support for 5 years and still on level 1 support with no room for any promotion or any opportunities within an hour of Sligo

ixoy

Much the same experience. I had a good job lined up in 2001, when I graduated, but it fell through thanks to the IT recession at the time.
I ended up working in a petrol station for a short period before spending 3 years in technical writing, something which barely utilised any of my so-called skills.

Now I eventually got into a better area, but it took time and, contrary to what some posters have above, it's not always possible to get into the area you want if you try. There's that horrible Catch-22 of needing experience to get the experience required that can be difficult to obtain.

I'd love to see how the report broke down these job listings, see if they looked for overlapping job posts on recruitment sites (we all know they exist), and if they decided to categorise what areas of IT were available.

monosharp

axer wrote:

Maybe they are saying it wrong. I think what they should be saying is that there are not enough "good" computer graduates out there. I know a lot of people who did computer degrees (systems, programming etc) in college yet they don't even know or find it difficult to under stand basic computer stuff. They just know what they are taught and don't have the common sense or the will to learn new things. In an industry like IT it is vital that those looking to stay in the industry or progress in the industry learn new skills by themselves and have a will to do so.

From what I can see there isn't enough of those type of people in Ireland.

I know what you are saying, something i believe is that theres a huge number of Irish graduates with a disadvantage and even jobs not availible to them because they have no clue of any OS besides windows. Look on Monster.ie etc and see the number of jobs looking for Unix/Linux knowledge. Then look at the number of IT courses in this country that don't even mention the word Unix.

Also, colleges/uni's seem to jump on the latest language bandwagon (C#) when they SHOULD be sticking to good old C++/C. If you know C/C++, learning C# is pretty much a non-issue. If you know C# then you know C#.

DublinWriter

monosharp wrote:

Also, colleges/uni's seem to jump on the latest language bandwagon (C#) when they SHOULD be sticking to good old C++/C. If you know C/C++, learning C# is pretty much a non-issue. If you know C# then you know C#.

Indeedy. But I think many colleges went from one extreme to the other, from teaching very staid old classical IT stuff, such as Cobol, Assembly Language, Maths & Stats to jumping on the IT fashion bandwagon.

Sure monosharp, both you and I know that a good grounding in C++/C sets you up to learn Java, JScript, C#, but your average numpty working in a recruitment agency doesn't, nor does the 50-year old burnt out ex-Cobol programmer that got the job of IT Manager by default.

Two of the most successful technical IT Contractors I know earn anything from €400 to €800 depending on location and both don't even have Leaving Certs!

I'm not knocking a degree in IT, but it's won't be the magic key to the kingdom that most expect it to be.

Unlike most other professions where were is a clear path after graduation (Law, Accountancy, Architecture), you are really on your own after getting an IT degree.

Still, having an BSc is a lot better than not having one, and can open up other doors, such as teaching/lecturing if you want to go down that route.

damnyanks

No degree is going to get you into any job. Law, accountancy and architecture hvae the same challenges to get into the actual profession. They require those training contracts and so on. You can still end up doing crap all.

If someone wants to get into a particular area they shouldnt sit around and complain about not having the opportunity. They do, they may have restrictions due to life commitments but there is no way in hell that you could say interesting IT work does not exist and is not attainable for graduates. I've found numerous graduate positions / schemes offering good interesting work. People should stop sitting on their arse and pull the thumb out. If you sit around and do nothing no one will notice you so no one will put you into that ever elusive role you really want.

Saint_Mel

MisterAnarchy wrote:

IT ,what exactly is the IT industry ?
I hear it all the time,I'm in IT .
It seems to be the most overused word in the last 10 years.

From my experience, people who say they're in "IT" are usually either
a) Doing a complex computing/programming/engineering job that would
take too long to explain the exact details

b) Working in a call centre/phone tech support.

When I started out in the IT industry , many moons ago, when people
asked you what you did you answered, "I'm a computer programmer" or
"I'm a technician" as it was seen as a badge of honour.

When I was in college it was rare for anyone graduating from my class
to apply for jobs as "Tester" or "Support" so I reckon they just rebranded
the whole thing IT so it would draw everyone in.

I can remember a lecturer joking about anyone who didnt do well in exams,
not to worry, theres always support/test jobs out there :eek:

Nowadays, anyone filling a printer with paper can say they're in the IT
industry.

Raiser

It comes from the IT Faculties in the Universites - If they don't get enough 2nd Level intake via the CAO every year they will have to cut their numbers, budgets and fire their sexy secretaries etc.

Dishonestly, cynically and in the most irritating fashion ever these Dildos feed the gullible "sure lets print any old $hite" press the same story just before the CAO every fcukin' year.

I'd love to see these crooked, lame, "academic heroes" rolled out of their faux-leather office chairs and slung out on their arses - I'm sure that they couldn't earn a living in any spectrum where they were further than a 15 foot radius of an overhead projector.........:rolleyes:

Kernel32

leeroybrown wrote:

I work in IT and have gotten a good job I like out of it but if someone I knew was filling out their CAO application I'd be advising them to seriously consider if it's something that they are definitely interested in doing for many years.

Ultimately I might end up leaving IT as a lot of people seem to be doing at around the ten year mark.

I have also been in IT for ten years and I still love it. I don't have a degree but I earn well above the average. My early IT work included wearing overalls over my suit while I cleaned out dot matrix printers on a factory floor. Your early years will not be glamorous.

It is something you do really have to be interested in to get anywhere and if you aren't then I would advise anyone not to do it because you will get burned out of the industry quickly.

bugs90

I'm in IT about 5 years, working now as a consultant. It is a tough career choice and there are hard times. I have to put in longer hours than any of my friends in other areas. That said, I enjoy the job and the challange and I wouldn't want to do anything else.

The reports about a lack of skilled ppl suggests wage hikes and loads of excellent jobs but this really is not materialising!!

copacetic

i'd totally agree with the report, I don't believe they said there was loads of graduate level jobs out there which the OP seems to be expecting. They say that there are loads of vacancies for 'IT' type positions. I don't know how it breaks down but would guess 90% of companies would be looking for expereinced people not people straight out of college.

It is very hard to find experienced people in Ireland at the moment, google, ebay, MS have hoovered up a lot of people lately and it can take 3-4 months to find someone to fill a reasonably high level position. It is also difficult to hold on to people as well.

In fact without a lot of the skilled immigration we have then I know a lot of companies that would be in big trouble. The average position we advertise would get 75% non national applicants.

Oracle

I agree with most of the comments so far. The talk of thousands of IT jobs unfilled is misleading, it was repeated by Marian Finucane on her RTE 1 radio show yesterday. What hasn't been mentioned are the salaries being offered for a lot of these jobs. I'd say 30-50% are €20,000 or below, that's one of the reasons they remain unfilled. Since she's so concerned Marian herself should consider filling one of these vacancies, with a little retraining. :rolleyes:

CyberGhost

0ubliette wrote:

when i finished my course the first job i got was tech support in eircom. I did a year long IT course in Fas, doing networking and maintenance. I felt sorry for everyone else i worked with cause most of them were graduates from 4 year long computer science courses, and they were stuck as phone monkeys in eircom. Managed to get away from there and do another **** job, but now im sitting pretty working as an IT guy for a govt. agency.
Its stupid to think that youll leave college and walk straight into a 40 grand a year sweet IT job. Its not going to happen. Unless youve got a year or 2's work experience, or know someone who can get you into a good position, you WILL start at the bottom of the ladder, and thats tech support.

0ubliette, if you don't mind answering, what was your salery at eircom? and what did it include, I mean did you sit infront of a computer in a large office and answering calls and solving people's problems? how did you apply? did you just go to an eircom office and said I want a job or how did it happen?

I too am A+ and networking certified by Comptia and I too am I starting my first job, and I thought of going to work at Maplin as sales/techie guy, but when I read your post, I think eircom would suit me better cause, I hate wearing uniforms and you don't have to run around like a ***** all day long I think?.

underworld

hmmm,im due to graduate in "computer networks & systems mgmt(honours degree)" in 2009 also with a CCNA...i should probably face facts that it will take some time to land a decent job in this field? any opinions?

caff

I thinkt he problem is how universites see themselves and how the industry reacts to this

I know while I was in manyooth there was a big gap between those lecturers who saw the role of the course as preparing people for industry practiacally agsint those who saw it as just teaching theory to give students a grounding in the concepts behind computers .. big divide between the two trains of thought

then for the most part few companies are willing to train graduates.. only a few big ones have graduate programmes.

A better way might be for more dialogue to happen between universites and industry.. however then the universites might object to this if it as seen as a company wants to literarly use the university as a training campus

mountainyman

What is even worse is the way they encourage people to do science in general and the pay is awful.
If jobs are paid badly then they are not valued, it is that simple.

MM

anluainn_ru

If there is a genuine shortage of skills, like there was during the dot-com boom, wages will rise and people will apply for these courses. I don't see anyone commenting on how well IT staff are paid these days. Where does that happen now, Engineering and the trades and surprise, surprise which courses are over-subscribed.......

nesf

I think that people make a few mistakes when they look at IT degrees.

IT degrees are not 'technical degrees' like Engineering, Accountancy or whatever. You are not joining a professional association on receiving it yet (though this could change) nor are you coming out of college with a lot of exemptions for major professional exams, as with accountancy. If you look at IT degrees in the same light that you might look at other degrees (Science, and Arts for instance) it doesn't look that odd. The good people will get good jobs out of their degrees, the middling people won't. If you do a degree in science it is quite hard to get a good job in the industry. One won't just fall into your lap, unless your degree is very closely tied to the industry; it's not the smooth transition most people seem to think it is.

There are jobs out there but degrees don't necessarily train you for them. Knowing C# isn't much use in jobs wanting mainly hardware skills. The industry itself has compensated for the lack of standardisation between third level and it with a plethora of professional qualifications. As any IT person will tell you these are pretty much more important than your degree once you're in the business for a few years (or possibly even sooner, I'm not sure).

As has been pointed out by others, there are a lot of IT grads floating around in the country who couldn't aspire to being Windows power-users never mind a competent IT professional. The degrees are such that they are not 'winnowing out the chaff' so it is natural that the job market reacts to this. An IT degree is not an uncommon commodity and you as a degree holder will have to do something more to differentiate yourself from the masses (either experience, qualifications or just being particularly good at whatever it is you do). Degrees across the board are being devalued year after year simply because having one nowadays really isn't anything special and it's quickly becoming that getting a job without one is quite difficult.

You have to be realistic about these things. You cannot expect to come out with a degree that is both common and not that hard to get and expect to be handed a high paying, or even particularly interesting job. Once you've a few years under your belt then you might be offered something along those lines, but unless you are something very special, and you along with more people probably aren't, then you're going to have to go through the slog like everyone else. It's not nice but it's not that dissimilar in most other industries.

RadarControl

I would love to know where all these IT jobs are advertised. I have two friends who graduated in 2004 with IT degrees from UL who are both unemployed. Both are also Associate Members of the Institute of Engineers of Ireland. Here are there stories:
One took a job with an agency upon leaving college who placed him with their large multinational client. After two years he left his job without having another one to go to which he now realizes is the worst thing he could have done.He left for three reasons:

• The agency was dropping his salary down so he would be inline with everybody else on the team even though he was there the longest.
• Reached the highest level he was going to achieve with agency's client
• Several agencies and friends incl me Oops told him he would have no problem getting another job.

This all happened in July of last year. He has since gone off an done MCSA course. He has gone to Life Coaches, CV Doctors for advice and he is getting no bites from either employers or agencies for any job that he has applied for. He is currently working in a bar.
My other friend worked for a year, then did a IT Masters in DCU and graduated in the summer last year. He cannot find work either and he is currently driving a van.
Anybody got any suggestions for either of them on what they could try.

damnyanks

Use contacts to land jobs internally. Look to apply for some graduate schemes if they still have under 2 years experience. It all comes down to being proactive as I pointed out earlier.

They must know people from your class or their work place that can help them find a job. Simply dropping your CV into an agency doesnt cut it.

Jumpy

chump wrote:

When I see and hear things like this it makes good on my decision not to go into IT. I was working in these roles when I was 16.

I completely agree that the media throw out any old BS. It's the same with science degrees. It said there's a huge shortage of grads etc., but ask a science grad about prospects after their degree. I can tell you they're few and far between and mostly unrelated to science.

As was I though. Like any job it takes time to work your way up, and its worth it when you do. 12 years on now and worth every second. Even though its more stressful than most jobs out there.

DublinWriter

RadarControl wrote:

I have two friends who graduated in 2004 with IT degrees from UL who are both unemployed.

Firstly, I don't want to sound snobbish, but the cold reality is the big corporates will do the milk-rounds in TCD/UCD first...and not just with IT graduates either.

As most people have said in here, having an IT degree entitles you to didly-squat in the real world. People want real-world experience and you'll need all your skills in 'blag' to get on that first rung.

I.T. as a profession, well, basically, isin't. It's a bit like medicine or architecture was 300 years ago. Back in 1707 I could have set myself up on Harley St. as 'DublinWriter - Medical Specialist' and just stuck leaches on people and made a very decent living out of it too.

I.T. has no professional bodies, therefore has no professional standards. It's each for his/her own at the moment and looks like being so for the foreseeable future.