Physical Education in Schools

King.Penguin

I'd like to see further specialisation within PE in schools. I think there is a lot tobe said for team sports but I think a lot of that comes from else where. But the opportunity to develop finely tuned motor skills would be helped by

boxing
judo
mma
etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6312589.stm

Millionaire

when I was at seconday school in the 80s, we had a beautiful school gym with all the gear. the PE program was crap. 1/2 term in door scoccer. 1/2 term gaelic football, Jan term exchange the scoccer for basket ball, and a bit of cross country running, and more Gaelic. about once a year for about 2 classes the high jump, and long jump, some other track and field was done.

It was aload of bollox, and did not cater for people like me and a few others who hated football. so I set up a barekunckel boxing competition in an alleyway at 830am each morning before school, and I was doing great... a bout every morning and I won all. until about 3 days later the cops busted it up. :-( now if the school offer more sports like boxing or something.. some of us who were hated football could have enjoyed other sports.

cowzerp

most of the tech schools do boxing and hold a tournament every year-colaiste dhulaigh win it every year! its great for the pupils but is done in there own time after school-maybe it should be done as p,e?

David Jones

when I was at seconday school in the 80s, we had a beautiful school gym with all the gear. the PE program was crap. 1/2 term in door scoccer. 1/2 term gaelic football, Jan term exchange the scoccer for basket ball, and a bit of cross country running, and more Gaelic. about once a year for about 2 classes the high jump, and long jump, some other track and field was done.

Considering there are some schools out there with no sports hall or in some cases no outdoor facilities, I would say you did ok. The fact that PE is not a compulsory subject at second level in this country is more the problem. If schools dont have the facilities or budget to offer the facilities, it offers a get out clause to not offer PE at all. Having taught in both the UK and here, I would say the UK are light years ahead of us in terms of what they offer even in so called "comprehensives". On my teaching practice all those years ago, I got to teach self defence, and some wing chun which I was into at the time, till I saw sense.

Im now blessed with where I teach, private school, great facilities, superb equipment and I have run a successful MMA program since 2000. Philip Scollard was 3 - 0 in pro vale tudo before he left school and I have another 2 or 3 like him in the pipeline, but more than that the students get to learn some skills that train different aspects of their motor control to invasion games or net wall stuff. But its limited to transition year where they do the course for a year. The soccer the gaelic the athletics etc are all vital for physical and mental development so to write them off because you dont happen to like soccer is pretty narrowminded. Team activities in PE are great ways for kids to socialise and learn very important life skills. I think some people confuse them with team sports which can involve the same activities but in a more competitive environment where generally the weaker players might not get a look in. PE taught properly is all inclusive and team sports are a wonderful way for motor skills etc to be learnt through fun activity.We do the gaelic, aussie rules, american football. tennis. rugby. cricket. softball etc Taught wrong and more like a team sport training session, it can be harmful to "little johnny who is last to be picked every week". There are lots of PE teachers doing wonderful work in sub standard facilities with little or no government help but since our emphasis is on leaving cert points etc in this country it goes unnoticed.

If any political candidates come to your door this campaign, you should cut them off their speel and ask them about the state of PE in our schools. Obesity is already a huge problem here, their lack of foresight is only going to make the problem worse. Oh yeah and while your at it. ask about VRT my other pet hate, illegal under European law but we manage to find a way round it to crucify car owners.

Rant over

silat liam

King.Penguin wrote:

I'd like to see further specialisation within PE in schools. I think there is a lot tobe said for team sports but I think a lot of that comes from else where. But the opportunity to develop finely tuned motor skills would be helped by

boxing
judo
mma
etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/6312589.stm

I've develop and teach a programme especially design for a number of schools in Silat for the past 7 years as part of their P.E. during school time. The kids fine it great as they develop physical and internal skills, along side gaining confidence. Some of them get the benefits of training in a skill (martial art) that maybe they might not of thought of trying. It get the approval of both the school kids and the teachers.

spiral

David great mail !!!
The CBS that I went to had GAA and soccer and once or twice a year cross country , but they raised over a million quid and spent it on a gym with all the gear that was never used as well as state of the art labs and computer rooms that again were never properly utilised.
I think the teachers probably didnt have the training or interest to utilise any of the gear (no full time PE teacher) so any teacher that volunteered for PE just did what they were interested in GAA , soccer etc.

David Jones

I think the teachers probably didnt have the training or interest to utilise any of the gear (no full time PE teacher) so any teacher that volunteered for PE just did what they were interested in GAA , soccer etc.

Well there is your problem right there. No full time PE specialist teacher means other teachers will only get involved with PE provision as long as they can stay quite rightly in their comfort zone. They may well have played, be playing or coaching gaelic, soccer or rugby etc and be willing to pitch in. But you have to remember we live in a society where running, skipping and hopscotch etc has been banned in many playgrounds because if the student falls the school is liable from highly litigious parents who will claim compensation. Its why we dont have hardly any skate parks, bmx parks etc,as a nation we always want to hold someone responsible for injuries that are often our own fault or are as a result of known risks in an activity. In the states if you fall in a skate park, you were skating, an activity with inherrent risks, you get your arm, leg etc cast and you try to be more careful next time. Here we find a solicitor and try and make money.

Back to my original point, If you are a teacher asked to cover an irish class, there are unlikely to be any injuries in the class. In PE no matter what the activity, there is a danger of injury. Why would someone put their career in jeopardy and risk being sued to take a class? Even a specialist PE teacher has to be careful not to leave themselves open to litigation, but at least they have a degree in the subject area and the correct qualifications.

Roper

Well Dave has pretty much put his finger on it- litigation. I teach a transition year programme at the mo and while I'm getting great feedback from it, especially from kids who don't normally take part in PE or perhaps aren't very sporting, it is a minefield.

I absolutely hate it when I hear the usual RTE types or politicians saying "We are a sporting nation"... we are not, any success we have is in spite of the setup here, not because of it.

Dyr

It's always been that way though, i remember back in the 80s our primary school progressively banned us from playing any sport at lunch time until even running was banned. it wasn't that the teacher's were wilting flower types but money was tight back then and any litigation would have shut the school down for good. Plus who the hell would risk teaching kids in the current climate with regards to paedophillia etc?

memphis

I was never into sports growing up, and never really got involved in any team sports while in secondary school. There was never any great choice in my school, desppite it being a state of the art, newly opened school at the time, the only offerings we had was stuff like, GAA, Rugby, Basketball, and any other team sport you can think of.

I think there should be some sort of MA taught in schools. A good way, as mentioned above is to perhaps, allow students exposure to MA when in Transition year or whatever, maybe by having a qualified MA instructor, go through some basic self defence skills, and techniques with the kids once a week for a term period or something like that.

Nothingcompares

Roper wrote:

Well Dave has pretty much put his finger on it- litigation. I teach a transition year programme at the mo and while I'm getting great feedback from it, especially from kids who don't normally take part in PE or perhaps aren't very sporting, it is a minefield.

I absolutely hate it when I hear the usual RTE types or politicians saying "We are a sporting nation"... we are not, any success we have is in spite of the setup here, not because of it.

Can you able to elaborate on this Barry? My first introduction to Martial arts was during a Transition Year programme. One of the people from Martial Arts Inc was teaching some "Self-Defence" which I immediately found boring. There was a Judo course being taught concurrently by Alan Martin so I went to that instead and never looked back.

Roper

Nothingcompares wrote:

Can you able to elaborate on this Barry? My first introduction to Martial arts was during a Transition Year programme. One of the people from Martial Arts Inc was teaching some "Self-Defence" which I immediately found boring. There was a Judo course being taught concurrently by Alan Martin so I went to that instead and never looked back.

Well, not too much to elaborate on. Its a 12 week module and I take them through some basics and we have a bit of fun. Its not a self defence course, its pitched more as an intro to MA at the beginner level. I'm having fun teaching it and they're having fun doing it so its all good.

Nothingcompares

Is it 1 one hour class a week for 12 weeks? Do you have mats?

Roper

2 hours per week for 12 weeks, no mats yet because its a freshly built new building, but I'm reliably informed I have them next week. Why the curiosity Kev?

Nothingcompares

Roper wrote:

2 hours per week for 12 weeks, no mats yet because its a freshly built new building, but I'm reliably informed I have them next week. Why the curiosity Kev?

Oh just wondering how it works. I wouldn't have figured that many schools would be up for the idea. So I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you're doing it and it sounds like it's a worthwhile course.

bjj-fighter

Im a secondary student myself.In my school we have a punching bag,gloves and grappling mats but we dont do any MAs.I think we used to do Karate and also years ago Boxing was a big sport in school.I would be great If we got some MMA instructor to come in and Im sure the kids would love it since they all love watching my MMA Hls.So come on JK,Colm O Reily or any other coaches:D

Millionaire

David Jones wrote:

.

The soccer the gaelic the athletics etc are all vital for physical and mental development so to write them off because you dont happen to like soccer is pretty narrowminded.

I do not think its narrow minded at all... in fact it was a pretty horrible experience as a teenager, and here is why... me and a few others were terrible at sports like football, and basketball. when teams were picked which was each week as PE was compulsory in my school ( and an offence not to kit out), some of us who were crap, were left standing against the wall week in week out, month in month out , being the last kids picked for each team, while everyone else sneered and laughed, as its a joke how bad we were. now thats a horrible way to treat 12 or 13 year olds in any class, and pretty unprofessional of the PE Teacher. Its certainly not a confidence builder for the kids who were crap at some of those sports. :mad:

I was very good at the high jump, another friend who was crap and hated football was excellent tha long jump, but we were not encouraged. instead we were forced to play football, which about 4 of us were totally crap.

Our kickboxing club even offered to run a special class for the school kids, this was back in the 80s, and the School distainfully dismissed them for proposing to bring such violence into the place! :eek:

If the PE program back then was any good, we would have been allowed train up in the high jump etc... while the others did their football.

David Jones

I do not think its narrow minded at all... in fact it was a pretty horrible experience as a teenager, and here is why... me and a few others were terrible at sports like football, and basketball. when teams were picked which was each week as PE was compulsory in my school ( and an offence not to kit out), some of us who were crap, were left standing against the wall week in week out, month in month out , being the last kids picked for each team, while everyone else sneered and laughed, as its a joke how bad we were. now thats a horrible way to treat 12 or 13 year olds in any class, and pretty unprofessional of the PE Teacher. Its certainly not a confidence builder for the kids who were crap at some of those sports.

You are actually reinforcing my point. Picking teams is 1 an archaic way of running a class and by its nature excludes and belittles students who are not picked each and every week. You obviously had an unqualified PE teacher or an incredibly poor one. The sports themselves are not to blame its how they are utilised. PE is NOT competitive sport and should not be run as such. Soccer, Gaelic, Rugby etc ie the stuff you said you hated at school can be fun and inclusive and beneficial if taught correctly and all students in a class can get something out of it.

If anything athletics by their very nature are far more exclusionary (is that a word?) well you get my meaning. 1, 2 and 3 in the 100m, no one cares about 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 etc. The top 3 in the throws, the jumps etc.
In fact High Jump is one of the worst activities for young kids. By its very nature everyone fails at it at some point. And trust me after 12 years of teaching its an activity which highlights the unathletic student better than most. When I teach high jump, 1 I use a foam bar, 2 use a slanted bar, better kids jumping at the higher end, weaker students at the lower end. Everyone gets some degree of success, but as I said its not a great activity outside of an athletic club as you are doomed to fail at some point.

Team sports properly taught can be highly beneficial both in terms of socialisation with peers and the obvious physical benefits. Nothing wrong with individual activities either, like I said above, I run a highly successful and over subscribed MMA program in Transition Year. My postgrad thesis was based around increasing interest in physical activity amongst 16 - 18 year olds using a martial arts program. But you cant write off an activity because you dont like it or because it was poorly taught where you were educated.

How I structure a PE class is entirely different to how I structure a coaching session for competitive sport.PE is mixed ability, competitive sport isnt.In the latter for A teams you are taking the best of the best, and even though these representative teams have the best players on them, there should B and C and D teams where weaker students get to participate and cope with the success and failure. But that is not PE that is sport.

If the PE program back then was any good, we would have been allowed train up in the high jump etc... while the others did their football.

Not entirely true. If the PE program back then was any good you would have all been afforded the opportunity to do both and a whole lot more besides. You cant always do what you like and working at something that you find difficult makes you a better person in my opinion.Guys dont particularly like to do dance or gymnastics but its part of the curriculum in the UK and I had to teach them and they had to do it. I agree that your PE program was poorly structured and poorly delivered but thats not to do with the actual activities themselves. All physical activity benefits the individual in some shape or form.PE should be all inclusive and wide ranging in its scope of activity. Unfortunately we live in a country where the first thing to suffer due to budget or time constraints is usually the PE program. And the ironic thing is its the only subject if carefully delivered which can help prevent the rise in heart disease, obesity, diabetes etc etc

Martial arts for PE programs? Absolutely. Roller Hockey? Lacrosse? Aussie Rules? Frisbee?, Athletics? Definitely. But also soccer,gaelic, rugby etc. Nothing wrong with them if they are delivered correctly. Sorry for the long post but Its obviously a subject I feel very passionately about.

Millionaire

Yes David, you points. Unfortunately, the way PE was taught at my school back then...the PE classes were totally cater to the lads who were good naturals, and indeed some went on the play for Monaghan at county level. (Not long after we finished school either).

It was neither fair on them or us... for us all to be lump in together, and indeed...yes Belittled is a word I totally associate with PE class.

I am not knocking Gaelic.. I would love to have played it, it is an amazing game. but remember the old Cospair (sp) slogan "Sport is for all"... well at my school it was not!!!

Shame, as we had excellent facilities in the mid 80s, and an all weather out door pitch too. which the nuns paid for with their own teaching salaries. (I went to a mixed convent). The gym was top notch.

Kind of in an immature way I had the last laugh a few years back, now we're all in our 30s, and I became fit and strong through kickboxing, and I was speaking to a lad who was the top notch local Gaelic player at school, the PE Teacher, and indeed town loved him for the expoits on the pitch. and all sport he excelled, and was one of my tormentors in PE class, and very cocky. now he is fat, out of shape with a massive gut and unconfident, and I was towering over him, in shape, toned, and very fit looking and confident, and along came the PE teacher who is retired, and and saw me he noticed man, he had not seen me since 1989, .... you should have seen the look on his face. :-)

You sound like a great teacher. thats wonderful. I would hate kids to have to go through the belittling me and some others had at PE back in the 80s.

paddyc

dave


just top let you know there a loop hole in that VRT... if you have an address in the north and hold the car in the north for 6 months after you buy it you can bring it down and change over the plates for free.....


one of the many benefits o being a nordie... that and free health care are my top 2


cheers paddy

David Jones

Unfortunately Paddy, you have to have daily proof of living in the north or uk for 6 months. ie ATM receipts, bills, etc etc. They do everything except probe you :eek: