Hand in the NSPC

Shadowless

Wasn't happy how I'd played this hand at all. I'd come out after the break with all guns blazing and I feel I let aggresiveness turn to foolishness.

Blinds are 8000/15000
Antes 1500
6 players
Hero ~ 480K
Villain ~ 550K

Villain is Aggressive. Will steal from position. I've come over the top of him a few times now and there's been a bit of banter between us.
Hero would probably be considered lag (or just very lucky)

I'm UTG+1 (to the right of the cut-off) and its folded to me.
I look down at 10c9s and raise to 50K
Villain in the SB calls.
BB folds.

This is the first time he has smooth called a raise and it suggested to me that he had a marginal hand. I didn't think he could resist the urge to come over the top if he had a premium hand after I had done it to him twice in the previous 2 orbits.

Flop: QQJ

I'm pretty sure villain checks with a Q here as he'd expect me to continuation bet.

Villain leads out for 50K
Hero shoves.

Comments appreciated.

Results to follow.
Be gentle...

sikes

imo your raise preflop is too much, your steals are far too expensive but thats not the point.

you put the pressure on him at a point when players will be scared of the ft bubble. hes prob calling with any Q and most Jx that he is calling your raise with. Prob laying down 1010 and less. you should have outs, would be sick to see KQ and to a lesser extent KJ.

He prob folds enough, and i think villain will often play an under pair like that.

phantom_lord

40k not be enough?

shove certainly puts a ton of pressure on him. but makes it clear you haven't got a q, call, hope he checks and take away from him on the turn?

BigCityBanker

I watched this hand, I thought your opponent made a good call. Your line wasnt great imo. It kinda told him that you had not got a Q - as he rightly suggested and called. Against a shove I call here most of the time unless there is something telling me not to.

Shadowless

Results: He went into the tank for a full 5 minutes and eventually made the correct call with KJ. Didn't improve and I was out.

As I said I was not happy with the shove. At the time I figured it would get rid of lower pockets and any A-rags which i thought dominated his range. His call pre-flop confused me and I must admit I was surprised when he flipped over Kojak. Thought that should have gone in the muck pre-flop tbh. Sour grapes I suppose.

I think I like PhantomLord's line on this hand, although i was also thinking that maybe a smaller raise, 80-100K say, might of been effective. Then shove turn.

If anything this hand has taught me to always know how deep you are. I hadn't done a chip count in an orbit and a half and couldn't believe when dealer (rob) announced the total. (390K) Thought I only had bout half that behind and that definitely influenced my decision to push. Lesson learned the hard way i suppose.


Edit: Re: Pre-flop raise.
With the blinds and ante's there 32K in pot before any action takes place. A raise to 40K gives the BB 3-1, thats almost good enough to call with ATC. I figured i'd have to raise at least 3xBB to have any fold equity. Thought this was standard, no?

phantom_lord

I don't like how the villain played this hand, he shoulda rr or folded pf, and his flop bet is awful imo.

sikes

Shadowless wrote:

R
Edit: Re: Pre-flop raise.
With the blinds and ante's there 32K in pot before any action takes place. A raise to 40K gives the BB 3-1, thats almost good enough to call with ATC. I figured i'd have to raise at least 3xBB to have any fold equity. Thought this was standard, no?

In the words of Gholi "this is wrong", not only because you have the price your offering wrong.

You want them to call with any two. If they want to play the hand oop with crap, you should give them every reason.

If the standard raise is 50k, i would be far more inclined to resteal.

Shadowless

sikes wrote:

In the words of Gholi "this is wrong", not only because you have the price your offering wrong.

You want them to call with any two. If they want to play the hand oop with crap, you should give them every reason.

If the standard raise is 50k, i would be far more inclined to resteal.

Pot is 72K
25K to call.
3-1(ish) no?

I see where your coming from now but I'm not quite comfortable with it. I need to think on it some more. My way we're getting better hands (which is any face card in this case) to fold. Your way we're giving them fantastic odds to call, albeit oop.

Are there any older threads where this is discussed?

yahoo_moe

Raise to 40k makes the pot 72k

OP says he's SB for 8k, making it 32k for him to call

So his odds are 9/4 (2.25/1)

You're giving BB almost 3/1 but sounds like you were mainly playing at Villain in SB so 40k wouldn't have given K-J too great a price

cooker3

Shadowless wrote:

If anything this hand has taught me to always know how deep you are. I hadn't done a chip count in an orbit and a half and couldn't believe when dealer (rob) announced the total. (390K) Thought I only had bout half that behind and that definitely influenced my decision to push. Lesson learned the hard way i suppose.

You really need to work on it all right as your still wrong
The hand went as follows, you raised to 50k, he called.
Flop comes, he bets 50k, you re-raised all-in. I took 50k from both and put it in pot and it was then 495,500 for him to call. I remember well as it took me ages to count it!

Goodluck2me

why not raise to 200K total even as if you want a caller. Also he could put you on an OP or even AJ. its is very important to know exactly how much you have for this exact reason. i think call and appropriate sized bet on the turn looks much stronger than your line here, although i dont mind asking him a question for all hsi chips either, but the 450K or whatever is a huge overbet.