Cullen Officially re-signs for Leinster

7mountpleasant

Leo is officially after resigning. Was just thinking if Leinster had thought about trying to lure Peter Bracken away from wasps. He's from Leinster, he almost 19st and a reasonable scrummager. I mean in light of the Munster performance against Leicster it might be worthwile bringing another Irish prop back. Apparently there is also some Ulster guy proping for Rotherham who is supposed to be turning heads (pun intended!)

An Tarbh

Bracken is definitely worth considering, whether he'll want to come back though is another question. Cullen has certainly improved considerably since going to Leicester so happy to see him coming back with Jennings.

damnyanks

Why did they even bother leaving.

Trojan

damnyanks wrote:

Why did they even bother leaving.

Get their games, earn more money, raise their profile, get experience with great teammates and coaches, see another country.

RuggieBear

Declan Kidney

7mountpleasant

RuggieBear wrote:

Declan Kidney

I don't know, I don't think that they were at the same level when they left so its a bit simplistic to put it solely down to kidney

mikedragon32

Leo was very inconsistent before he went to Leicester. His spell there has certainly improved him, so it will be interesting to see how he gets on when he returns.

Besides Big Mal must be close to the end of his career?

crybaby

thats a great signing for Leinster hes grown as a player in his time away and we're badly in need of a boost in the pack

Diamondmaker

2 of the pack that annihalated Munster twice this season coming home is great. Leo Captained Leicester and Jennings Ireland As so 2 strong charatcers also. Yeah Mal is surely on his last few line outs too.

Have Munster made any useful acquisitions any one know? Aside from Rob Kearney. Just waht Munster need.

Looking at things now Leinster will be very very strong next season. Frint row aside.

bugler

It will be interesting to see how Cullen does back at Leinster. He's been playing with a heavyweight pack for the past couple of seasons and he'll find big things expected of him despite not having the same calibre of player around him at Leinster. He is a decent lineout operator though.

The problem is still front-row for Leinster, they'd be better served chasing props.

darraghw

Diamondmaker wrote:

Have Munster made any useful acquisitions any one know? Aside from Rob Kearney. Just waht Munster need.

Rob Kearney? when was this announced? Any links?

Diamondmaker

not sure its been announced yet, heard from the same places I heard Cullen and Jennings were moving. Both proved to be true as it happens so I believe its true.

davyjose

Diamondmaker wrote:

not sure its been announced yet, heard from the same places I heard Cullen and Jennings were moving. Both proved to be true as it happens so I believe its true.

It's a f***in joke - why not just give them BOD and D'ARCY while were at it.

bugler

The Kearney move makes sense for everyone. Munster could use an exciting attacking prospect, and Kearney is not going to break through to the Leinster side yet. By all accounts the perception is that Fitzgerald has over-taken him, and Dempsey is still there.

Kearney gets gametime, Munster get a player and Leinster will most likely get the more experienced player back at some point. It is also, in case we forget, good for Irish rugby. It's not in the interests of the Irish game to have provinces hoarding their young prospects, for the sake of denying their "rivals" an advantage.

RuggieBear

exactly. we don't want another jeremy staunton....leinster crying out for an outhalf and munster wasting the talents of the then next best prospect in the country.

Nice0ne

RuggieBear wrote:

exactly. we don't want another jeremy staunton....leinster crying out for an outhalf and munster wasting the talents of the then next best prospect in the country.

Staunton never fully delivered the goods when at munster, he also hasn't had a great impact at Wasps and still hasn't broken through as a regular on the starting 15. If you did get him you mightn't have wanted him?

Whereas Jennings and Cullen had a great run with Leicester and should add nicely to the Leinster team next season

Sangre

I'll be absolutely raging if we let Kearney go this early. Fitzgerald is still completely unproven imo.

Diamondmaker

Sangre wrote:

I'll be absolutely raging if we let Kearney go this early. Fitzgerald is still completely unproven imo.

its not really about letting in all fairness.....Its an IRFU controlled situation.
We also got 2 excellent players in Keogh and Hogan on the flip side. Share the wealth.
Lool at Keogh now an indispensable part of the Leinster team and at some point may get an Irish look in but if he remained at mUnster he would be getting little game time and Leinster, well, would not have him!

Sangre

True, they wouldn't really be 'letting him go' but I'd still be gutted if he went, especially to Munster. While I take your points on Keogh and Hogan I don't think the comparison is the same because I think Kearney is destined for the starting 15 unlike your two examples. Hogan will probably be gone with Cullen back in the fray (although if current form continues he might stay in there).]

Kearney is destined for big things imo, I certainly don't want that happening at our rivals. I think with another good season he could be ahead of Dempsey. He has the offensive package, its his defense and positioning that needs work (which always takes longer). Give it another season at least, to see how Fitzgerald holds up.

darraghw

bugler wrote:

By all accounts the perception is that Fitzgerald has over-taken him

This may have been true at the start of the season but recently kearney has looked a class a part from luke.
Watching the leinster game last night i thought luke looked the worst out of the up coming talents, constently making the wrong decision and this is a player that was handed an irish cap!

Funkstard

Only after he had taken a bruising hit to the head, he was out of it after that hit and should have been taken off then. By my reckoning it's the first game of the season where he hasn't impressed people, and as I said last night his poor performance can be attributed to an injury.

Sangre

I haven't seen last night's match so I'm not personally basing it on that.

il gatto

Leo Cullen is quality and will help Leinster up front. Hopefully, by coming back, he'll be in a position to help shore up Ireland as well. At least it's nice to know that the I.R.F.U. aren't getting carried away with the "loads of strenght and depth" notion being bandied about the national team at the moment.
With regards to Luke Fitzgerald, I'm not in a position to say much because I have't seen much of him, but I've been massively underwhelmed by what I've seen so far. Maybe he's got the talent, but I don't think giving him expirience at the expense of players in better form at the expense of results is a good idea. He's not a liability or anything, but doesn't seem hugely effective.

Diamondmaker

il gatto wrote:

With regards to Luke Fitzgerald, I'm not in a position to say much because I have't seen much of him, but I've been massively underwhelmed by what I've seen so far. Maybe he's got the talent,He's not a liability or anything, but doesn't seem hugely effective.

well its lucky the guys that are pulling the strings have seen a lot of him and are much better to decide who stays............

RK is showing exceptional form lately that was not being consistently displayed prior to these decisions.

To the person only casually watching both players based on 1 game after a long injury lay off for LF where he received a head knock early on also and RKs recent excelllent form to make little sense.

But EOS also is of the same mind as he has capped him.

Sangre

Theres no doubting Fitz has the potential to be a huge talent but hes still a pretty slight 19 year old. He is not bench material yet, pretty far off it imo. To put in a position where he'll be the only decent back-up is a poor move, for him and RK. Nothing worse then dropping an unprepared player in the deep-end.

Diamondmaker

Sangre wrote:

Theres no doubting Fitz has the potential to be a huge talent but hes still a pretty slight 19 year old. He is not bench material yet, pretty far off it imo. To put in a position where he'll be the only decent back-up is a poor move, for him and RK. Nothing worse then dropping an unprepared player in the deep-end.

I agree with you to an extent but we (Ire) are not exactly flush with players and from an International point of view both these guys that have been identified as REAL potential both need regular ML game time to get where we need them.
Basically its who plays best on the day that they are given a run. Neither is playing week in week. Luke seemed like the better at the beginning of the season and lately Rob seems like an amazing cover at FB.

Ultimately IRFU need both playing regularly and Ill agree with this. It makes little difference to me if LF went to Munster and we kept RK. As a whole I feel there is very littlke between them...ie both excellent!

Sangre

My opinion would be give it another season. I also think the Munster backline won't be the best place to develop a three-quarter with the talents of either them. They'd be slightly wasted imo, although regular game time is obviously a bonus.

davyjose

bugler wrote:

It is also, in case we forget, good for Irish rugby. It's not in the interests of the Irish game to have provinces hoarding their young prospects, for the sake of denying their "rivals" an advantage.

I don't really buy into this, bugler. I understand that the structure of the IRFU has been a God-send. It is the reason why I get to watch some of the best players in the world every second weekend, a few miles from where I live. But there needs to be some sort of control for the clubs, because ultimately it is the fans who pay the price. Would I rather hold on to one of the country's brightest up-and-coming stars, than see him get some game time for our fiercest rivals, and for what? So he can get into the Ireland squad a year early maybe (Ireland still have Murphy/Dempsey at FB ahead of him, and an absolute embarrassment of riches on the wing)? NO WAY am I happy with this. Leinster are my team every bit as much as Ireland, one of the best in Europe along with Munster with whom they also share a massively entertaining rivalry. This to me gets compromised when teams start picking players off other team to 'make things fair'. That's like five-a-side soccer. But either way, I don't think that sort of thing is good for Irish Rugby.
Incidentally the Keogh/Hogan thing is completely different: I hate to use the term but these guys were effectively rejects at Munster. It's quite different to 'giving away' a rising star.

7mountpleasant

We are a small rugby nation with a very small rugby playing population so the need for us to think global in respect of out players is very important. While I understand that people would like that teams get as much strength as possible we in this country have said that our national team takes preference over everything else and for this reason Kearney should go to Munster.

Sangre

I know, we should amalagmated all our provinces into one club call 'Ireland'! Then we'd have the best clubs for sure!

bugler

davyjose wrote:

Incidentally the Keogh/Hogan thing is completely different: I hate to use the term but these guys were effectively rejects at Munster. It's quite different to 'giving away' a rising star.

Hogan was a reject. He was well down the pecking order and wasn't going to break through. Keogh wasn't a reject, Munster tried hard to hold onto him but he wanted to go. I think he would have played a couple of HEC games (including the Leicester game) had he still been there.

Regardless of whether you buy it or not the overall well-being of Irish rugby is a factor. As I said before I don't think Leinster won't get anything out of a Kearney move to Munster in the long-term.

In effect we only have 4 'clubs' in this country, compared with larger Unions that's very little. We also currently seem to be producing relatively high numbers of top-class players despite our small pool, at least for the moment. Players don't want to warm the bench.

We have seen many players go to the Guinness Premiership for want of first team rugby at home, would you like Kearney to be another one? Or is it just the other Irish provinces you wouldn't want to have him? If Kearney is wanted at Leinster for first team action then the move won't happen. If he's not wanted then he will move - and that's best for the player and his development.

Diamondmaker

bugler wrote:

. Keogh wasn't a reject, Munster tried hard to hold onto him but he wanted to go. I think he would have played a couple of HEC games (including the Leicester game) had he still been there.

Munster Caps: 54 (45 Celtic League, 9 Heineken Cup) *Captain on two occasions.

Not the record of a reject...especially his captaincy caps. Bugler is correct.

davyjose

Fair enough I'm wrong about Keogh. Firstly, I have ultimate respect for him as a player, and the reason I called him a 'reject' was more to just illustrate my point - that he wasn't in the 'first pick' of Munster back rows. Yes wrong indeed to call him a reject, though. But Keogh is an established player, and one not deemed quite good enough to guarantee a starting place every time for Munster. The same cannot be said for Kearney who cannot, in my eyes, be more than a year or two away from seriously making a huge name for himself (I want that to be as a Leinster player).
Also bugler made the point, with which Diamondmaker agreed, that Keogh wanted to go to Leinster. This is different to a player getting shipped off by the IRFU, is it not?.
And yeah, I would prefer us not to give players of quality to teams that we fear the most. That's not an insult to Munster - more of a compliment i think. Anyway, going to England didn't effect the person who's place in the Irish squad Kearney is after - Murphy!

il gatto

Diamondmaker wrote:

well its lucky the guys that are pulling the strings have seen a lot of him and are much better to decide who stays............

RK is showing exceptional form lately that was not being consistently displayed prior to these decisions.

To the person only casually watching both players based on 1 game after a long injury lay off for LF where he received a head knock early on also and RKs recent excelllent form to make little sense.

But EOS also is of the same mind as he has capped him.

I didn't see that game. I was referring to prior performances where he didn't seem to be quite at the required level. His appearance in the AIs in particular showed some bad decisions due to a lack of expirience. I just don't think a result should be jepordised by throwing him in at the deep end to gain that expirience. He's young and I think giving him some more time would be best all round.

Snickers Man

7mountpleasant wrote:

I don't know, I don't think that they were at the same level when they left so its a bit simplistic to put it solely down to kidney

At the risk of starting another Leinster Munster war (God forbid ) I think it was 90 % Kidney. He was an utter disaster for Leinster. He lost Jennings, Cullen and Shane Byrne at one go and irritated O'Driscoll so much he went and flashed his cleavage and knicker elastic at Biarritz. BOD's comment at the time was that he 'wasn't learning anything' at Leinster. Too true. What can an attacking centre learn from a 10-man rugby specialist?

Then along come Cheika and Knox, bring in a style of classic Australian rugby (not the 1999 snore-fest variety, the 1980s vintage) and hey presto, Leinster has the best back line in Europe.

The club that did best out of Kidney was the Welsh one (can't remember who) who hired him for about a week and then got a handsome financial compensation when he decided to go back to Ireland.

RuggieBear

Snickers Man wrote:

The club that did best out of Kidney was the Welsh one (can't remember who) who hired him for about a week and then got a handsome financial compensation when he decided to go back to Ireland.

While i totally agree with you...

kidney was a disaster for Leinster and his man management/ethos really rubbed alot of players the wrong way, Especially the whole womans auxillary baloon corps thing.

...i'd like to add that i reckon the club that did best out of kidney was Munster (they did win a HC):p

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Diamondmaker

davyjose wrote:

Also bugler made the point, with which Diamondmaker agreed, that Keogh wanted to go to Leinster. This is different to a player getting shipped off by the IRFU, is it not?.
QUOTE]

Any one think that maybe kearney WANTS to go. He would have little problem ousting Cullen and the ancient other fella Sth Afr ( name excaoes me just now but he is well over 35 Innt' he?!) next season.

he would get regular top notch and HEC game time at Munster compared to sharing ML duties with Luke.