protein what to mix with and how often

k974

hi,

being reading thru all the old threads some great advice cant really find a direct anwser to this,

i take whey protein after the gym, i only mix it with water. I only take it after training and not on off days or before training or during the day.


should i mix it with something else besides water dont care bout the taste but is it better with something else i.e milk?? any should i take it more often

Thanks

davyjose

After training water is just fine. Some people will tell you to take it with Milk when going to bed as it releases slower because of the Casein, but if you take it after water it's just fine. It's also less calorific this way, which is important for most people who aren't taking a protein/Carb mixture and trying gain.
I only ever mix it with water, as I like to spend my spare cals on food.

g'em

Ideally after a workout take your whey with some form of simple sugar - glucose for example. The carbs cause an insulin spike which allows for easier uptake of the protein in your system. You cn buy pre-made PWO drinks like RAM from Nutrition X that have the 2:1 carb: protein ratio in them, or you can just add glucose powder to the whey or drink grape juice with it.

Whey on its own with water is fine, but with carbs it's better. Totally up to you which way you want to go with it.

Degsy

Just on the subject of RAM..here's its nutritional breakdown

Nutritional Information Per 100g
Energy kcal 377.5
Energy KJ 1578
Protein (Dry basis) 30g
Carbohydrates 61g
of OF WHICH SUGARS 60.5G
Fat 1.55g
of which saturates 0.5g

Fibre 1g
Sodium 150mg

rubadub

Pineapple juice is my favourite sugar mixture.
I also use milk and tesco strawberry milkshake mix which is full of sugar too.

Many say the casein in milk will slow the uptake, does it affect it very much? i.e. if I mix with milk and normal whey would it have almost the same effect as casein & water. I ask since casein protein is more expensive.

g'em

Degsy wrote:

Just on the subject of RAM..here's its nutritional breakdown

Nutritional Information Per 100g
of OF WHICH SUGARS 60.5G

I'm presuming you highlighted that part because it could be a bad thing?

It's not though. Straight after a hard workout (not 30 minutes brisk walking on a treadmill ) when your glycogen levels are badly depleted, you've torn your muscle fibres and your body is aching for nutrition, this is the one time when simple insulin spikin good old fashioned sugars are exactly what your body needs. At 60g sugar and 30g protein per 100g, RAM has the perfect 2:1 ratio. PWO is the one time when you're highly unlikely to store any sugar as fat- it's needed instead to replace the energy you've used up so indulge your sweet tooth and drink away to your hearts content.

@ rubadub, yep, milk and whey is a fine substitute for casein protein powder.

Degsy

g'em wrote:

I'm presuming you highlighted that part because it could be a bad thing?

It's not though. Straight after a hard workout (not 30 minutes brisk walking on a treadmill ) when your glycogen levels are badly depleted, you've torn your muscle fibres and your body is aching for nutrition, this is the one time when simple insulin spikin good old fashioned sugars are exactly what your body needs. At 60g sugar and 30g protein per 100g, RAM has the perfect 2:1 ratio. PWO is the one time when you're highly unlikely to store any sugar as fat- it's needed instead to replace the energy you've used up so indulge your sweet tooth and drink away to your hearts content.

@ rubadub, yep, milk and whey is a fine substitute for casein protein powder.

Sure its necessary after a workout but you wouldnt want to be taking the stuff day and night!

t-ha

Degsy wrote:

Sure its necessary after a workout but you wouldnt want to be taking the stuff day and night!

We're specifically addressing post-workout drinks in this thread.
RAM is a post-workout drink.
The directions on the label specify to take it after training (aka post-workout).

If someone elects to take a dedicated post-workout drink continuously day and night then I say let Darwinism take its course.

rubadub

g'em wrote:

.At 60g sugar and 30g protein per 100g, RAM has the perfect 2:1 ratio.

Good points. Another reason to point out sugar content is that many who dont really look properly at labels can overlook it, most of these mixes that contain sugar are charging a lot for the sugar. Glucose can be got in tesco for about €2 per kilo. So you can make your own blend. It can work out a good bit cheaper, rather than buying a standard protein powder AND a PWO protein mix you can bulk buy just one protein powder and make up your own PWO mix, or make a fruit smoothie to get your sugar. It could actually work out cheaper to buy your sugars in the form of fresh fruit.

g'em wrote:

rubadub, yep, milk and whey is a fine substitute for casein protein powder.

Good to know!

t-ha

Just a note on the milk + whey thing...

I've heard in the past, regarding taking shakes before bed-time, that;
1] Your metabolism slows so you can take whey as normal
2] Taking it with milk slows the absorbtion so whey + milk is OK
3] Mixing in milled flax seed slows absorbtion so whey+ flax is OK

My honest experiences so far are that whey shakes NEVER last you until the next morning regardless of mixing it with flax and/or milk. I just wake up with a concave stomach dying for breakfast. You'ld be better off eating a lean portion of meat, cottage cheese or best of all, a supplement with micellar casein in it. Judge it for yourself naturally, this is just what I've found.

Degsy

Which ever way you look at it sugar is a bad thing,glucose is far healthier as a source of simple carbs.Now before people leap down my throat and say "glucose IS a sugar" i'm talking about sucrose,not fructose or glucose.If its listed as "sugar" on the ingredients label then it is probably sucrose,the stuff you put in your tea thats linked to obesity,high blood pressure,diabetes and tooth decay.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

yomchi

The sugar present in RAM is dextrose which is the same as glucose with a mirror image molecular structure>

From Wikipedia:
"Glucose, a simple monosaccharide sugar, is one of the most important carbohydrates and is used as a source of energy in animals and plants. Glucose is one of the main products of photosynthesis and starts respiration. The natural form (D-glucose) is also referred to as dextrose, especially in the food industry."

g'em

I was just about to say that RAM has dextrose but I see the fellow RAM fans have gotten in there before me

@ rubadub - I agree certainly, it can be easier to make your own PWO shake. But for convenience and taste RAM is a winner for me, plus it has electrolytes and Vitamin C to help reduce DOMS.

(and if you're going to make homemade PWO stick with glucose as opposed to fructose btw!! Dextrose (glucose) is the only monosaccharide than can get into bloodstream. The other monosaccharides (galactose, fructose) are converted into glucose by the liver before they can enter bloodstream, so dextrose is more efficient at restoring the muscle glycogen, which is exactly where we want it to go)

rubadub

Degsy wrote:

Which ever way you look at it sugar is a bad thing,glucose is far healthier as a source of simple carbs.Now before people leap down my throat and say "glucose IS a sugar" i'm talking about sucrose,not fructose or glucose.If its listed as "sugar" on the ingredients label then it is probably sucrose,the stuff you put in your tea thats linked to obesity,high blood pressure,diabetes and tooth decay.

http://www.pronutrition.ie/products.php?action=product&id=7

this lists the main ingredient as dextrose, which pretty much is the same a glucose, but the US always tend to call it dextrose.

Glucose/dextrose tastes less sweet than sucrose so is more platable, lucozade has almost twice the sugar of normal soft drinks but doesnt taste twice as sweet. Strange with all that sugar they still put in sweeteners!

Of that 1.5kg tub, 1kg could be got in tesco for €2

iregk

Ok its time for another good idea bad idea.

Mixing vanilla eas 100% whey with orange juice is nice. Mixing strawberry with orange juice as I did last night be accident is absolutely disgusting!!!

yomchi

rubadub wrote:

http://www.pronutrition.ie/products.php?action=product&id=7

this lists the main ingredient as dextrose, which pretty much is the same a glucose, but the US always tend to call it dextrose.

Glucose/dextrose tastes less sweet than sucrose so is more platable, lucozade has almost twice the sugar of normal soft drinks but doesnt taste twice as sweet. Strange with all that sugar they still put in sweeteners!

Of that 1.5kg tub, 1kg could be got in tesco for €2

1kg of dextrose yeh - but then you need to source whey protein, electrolytes, vit C, L-Arginine and L-Glutamine to equal that product.

rubadub

g'em wrote:

(and if you're going to make homemade PWO stick with glucose as opposed to fructose btw!! Dextrose (glucose) is the only monosaccharide than can get into bloodstream.

Yes glucose has a GI of 100 and fructose has a much lower GI. Many call fructose "fruit sugar" but I think most fruit usually contains more sucrose than fructose.

yomchi

iregk wrote:

Ok its time for another good idea bad idea.

Mixing vanilla eas 100% whey with orange juice is nice. Mixing strawberry with orange juice as I did last night be accident is absolutely disgusting!!!

LOL, Vanilla is like the colour white - it goes with anything!

rubadub

Jon wrote:

1kg of dextrose yeh - but then you need to source whey protein, electrolytes, vit C, L-Arginine and L-Glutamine to equal that product.

True! I am surprised nobody has released a mix to add to whey powder, then add the glucose from the supermarket (or have they?). Most of the people using this stuff are used to measuring stuff so it is not too hard, probably the same density, i.e. add teaspoon of extras to 1 scoop protein + 2 scoops glucose.

The price of postage for shipping around glucose is probably more than the cost of the product itself.

g'em

rubadub wrote:

Yes glucose has a GI of 100 and fructose has a much lower GI. Many call fructose "fruit sugar" but I think most fruit usually contains more sucrose than fructose.

No, fruits will virtually always have more fructose than sucrose or dextrose, but it's the conentration of the latter two that makes some fruits sweeter than others. Grapes for example are high GI because they have a lot of sucrose in them.

rubadub wrote:

True! I am surprised nobody has released a mix to add to whey powder, then add the glucose from the supermarket (or have they?). Most of the people using this stuff are used to measuring stuff so it is not too hard, probably the same density, i.e. add teaspoon of extras to 1 scoop protein + 2 scoops glucose.

or.. just buy RAM I buy two protein supplements: whey and RAM. It doesn't work out any cheaper than buying whey + glucose separately at all, and each tub lasts me for weeks. Happy days!

Wow... talk about bickering over the minutest details... we must all be having slow days in work today

Degsy

rubadub wrote:

True! I am surprised nobody has released a mix to add to whey powder, then add the glucose from the supermarket (or have they?). Most of the people using this stuff are used to measuring stuff so it is not too hard, probably the same density, i.e. add teaspoon of extras to 1 scoop protein + 2 scoops glucose.

The price of postage for shipping around glucose is probably more than the cost of the product itself.

Its not impossible.Glucose is 1 euro a kilo from supermarkets,whey is as cheap as E 69.99 for 22lbs (bulkpowders.co.uk) and stuff such as arginine,creatine and anything else you fancy are also readily available to add to it.

Pygmie

Also, RAM has whey protein concentrate as it's protein source. Personally I have found that a mixture of hydrolyzed whey, whey isolate, and whey concentrate works best.

trollybus

In reality there is very little difference between whey concentrates isolates and hydrosolates other than price. If you look at enough dairy spec sheets on these forms you will see they are very similar, infact alot of the time some concentrates are superior to other forms.

Pygmie

The absorptions rates are different.

Degsy

Pygmie wrote:

The absorptions rates are different.

Not to a degree that any normal person is going to notice.Anway,whey should not be anybody's first source of protein,that should ideally come from nutritious and varied whole foods.Whey should only be used to supplement a healthy diet.

Pygmie

I'm specifically talking about post-workout. Post-workout you want to get a fast -absorbing protein into you.

rubadub

g'em wrote:

or.. just buy RAM I buy two protein supplements: whey and RAM. It doesn't work out any cheaper than buying whey + glucose separately at all, and each tub lasts me for weeks.

Don't know what price you are paying but every place I see charges a fortune for these additional sugars. Are you figuring it right? eg 3kg of RAM is approx 1kg of whey and 2kg glucose, and extra stuff that would cost some extra. Most of the time I see RAM on sale it is around the same price as protein per kg.

Some sell "fuels" that are usually combinations of maltodextrin, fructose, glucose/dextrose, and sometimes sucrose, then they have flavours and citric acid. But they charge massive amounts for that, most of these sugars can be got in home brew shops very cheaply. I used to brew beer & wine and some places charged a lot of "brewing sugar" which was just a mix of sucrose and dextrose, they could not compete on an economy of scale basis with supermarkets.

I am just surprised more people are not blending custom made drinks to suit themselves. A lot of people here are very aware of what they are ingesting and particular about certain supplements.

g'em

rubadub wrote:

I am just surprised more people are not blending custom made drinks to suit themselves. A lot of people here are very aware of what they are ingesting and particular about certain supplements.

Each serving of whey costs me about 73c, each serving of RAM costs about 70c. A tub of whey lasts me about 2 months, a tub of RAM lasts about 3. Sure I could go out and buy the necessary ingredients separately, but the hassle of doing that outweighs the convenience of having it pre-made for me to be honest.

Dragan

Pygmie wrote:

Personally I have found that a mixture of hydrolyzed whey, whey isolate, and whey concentrate works best.

Hydrolyzed whey is, by and large, whey concentrate. What happens is that a batch of concerntrate gets burnt and the amino end up in longer chains that normal, so digestive enzymes are added to return them to normal. Thats really about it as far as i can tell.

And the absorbtion differences between isolate and concentrate would be so moot as to mean very, very little.

It should be noted this is all only "as far as i am aware" so if anyone has some further info that would be pretty sweet?

t-ha

g'em wrote:

a tub of RAM lasts about 3.

Really? How many scoops do you use per session? I use 3 & don't get anywhere near 3 months out of it.

@ degsy, you can get alot of stuff cheap from bulkpowders but you've got to flavour it yourself, or choose how much/what falvouring you want. It's risky and from what I've heard the results are generally unpleasant. There's a reason why supplement companies spend alot of time/effort/money on getting things like taste & mixability right.

g'em

t-ha wrote:

Really? How many scoops do you use per session? I use 3 & don't get anywhere near 3 months out of it.

3 scoops?? lucky baxstard I only use one, but it still tastes yum

Johnson

If you are looking to make your own shake, the place to go is www.bulkpowders.co.uk

The whey protein there is cheaper than anywhere I have seen (I got 22lbs of it for about 75 euro), and you can buy Dextrose, ultra-fine oats, BCAAs, etc for dirt-cheap prices. Makes tailoring shakes to your own requirements very simple and cost-effective.

7mountpleasant

rubadub wrote:

True! I am surprised nobody has released a mix to add to whey powder, then add the glucose from the supermarket (or have they?). Most of the people using this stuff are used to measuring stuff so it is not too hard, probably the same density, i.e. add teaspoon of extras to 1 scoop protein + 2 scoops glucose.

The price of postage for shipping around glucose is probably more than the cost of the product itself.

Just wondering is two scoops glucose 1 scoop whey regarded as the optimal mix.

estariol

there is a lot of shi*e goin' around these days forget carbs nearly everything you eat is carbs loaded, keep the proteins up chicken is best or if your veg whey , but striated muscle can only build with excess protein and a heathy diet, so screw the idiots and eat normally, what I do is a 6 white egg omlete every morning.....

Degsy

t-ha wrote:

Really? How many scoops do you use per session? I use 3 & don't get anywhere near 3 months out of it.

@ degsy, you can get alot of stuff cheap from bulkpowders but you've got to flavour it yourself, or choose how much/what falvouring you want. It's risky and from what I've heard the results are generally unpleasant. There's a reason why supplement companies spend alot of time/effort/money on getting things like taste & mixability right.

The flavouring system costs very little,it works out about three quid extra to flavour 11lbs and its not bad at all,i have to say i had my reservations initially but i was pleasantly surprised.Admitedly Big Whey tastes better but not enough to justify the massive difference in price,and the mixibility is identical in both products.I suppose its horses for courses(or pockets)!

rubadub

Johnson wrote:

If you are looking to make your own shake, the place to go is www.bulkpowders.co.uk

The whey protein there is cheaper than anywhere I have seen (I got 22lbs of it for about 75 euro), and you can buy Dextrose, ultra-fine oats, BCAAs, etc for dirt-cheap prices.

They are cheap, I got unflavoured whey which I love since I can add whatever I want. Pineapple juice is nice, and tesco strawberry milkshake mix, I also add jelly to make mousse.

The dextrose is still expensive compared to a supermarket, unless you get the 25kg bag. 1 kilo is £3.49! that is over €5 but is about €2 in a supermarket

Just wondering is two scoops glucose 1 scoop whey regarded as the optimal mix.

Seems what most recommend, should really be 2 parts by weight, i.e. I am not sure if 1 scoop of glucose weighs the same as 1 scoop of whey.

Pygmie

Dragan wrote:

Hydrolyzed whey is, by and large, whey concentrate. What happens is that a batch of concerntrate gets burnt and the amino end up in longer chains that normal, so digestive enzymes are added to return them to normal. Thats really about it as far as i can tell.

And the absorbtion differences between isolate and concentrate would be so moot as to mean very, very little.

It should be noted this is all only "as far as i am aware" so if anyone has some further info that would be pretty sweet?

Not sure where you heard this but Hydrolyzed whey is, by and large, whey isolate which has its peptide bonds broken down into shorter chain of aminos. What do you mean by "so moot as to mean very, very little"? Again, as I said before, I'm just discussing this in relation to post-workout nutrition. The way I see it, if you're going to spend money on a post-workout shake, you may as well spend your money on the best you can get. There's a good article here about the different types of whey available:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet44.htm

t-ha

rubadub wrote:

Seems what most recommend, should really be 2 parts by weight, i.e. I am not sure if 1 scoop of glucose weighs the same as 1 scoop of whey.

Yeah, glucose you get in supermarkets is heavier than protein powders so do it by weight.