Builder demanding stage payment before work is completed

Kashkai

Hi all,

Up to now I've tried to maintain a friendly relationship with my builder. This is despite the fact that his original 4 1/2 months to build our 1,600 sq. ft extension will be doubled by the time he's finished.

At Christmas, he phoned me to say that the roof was now complete and wanted the stage payment. As we were all struck down with the flu, I sent my brother out to meet him and pay him. After Christmas, I went out to the house for a look around and found to my disgust that the roof was not finished (it was approximately 40% slated). When I managed to contact him in January, he laughed it off and said it would be finished in a few days. In fact, while most of the slates are now on, the ridge tiles are not yet fixed, a full month after he was paid for the "finished roof".

Now he rang me yesterday looking for the next stage payment, i.e. plastering completed. When I was out in the house at the weekend, there was still a considerable amount of plastering to do. The contract I have with this guy states that payment is due when the plastering is complete. Am I being unreasonable in withholding payment until all of the plastering is completely finished.

I feel that by being nice and friendly towards this builder, he's treating me like an eejit. Is it about time I gave him a verbal kick in the ass (my wife is worried about this approach as I've an awful temper when I get going and she's afraid the builder might walk).

0lordy

Try not to lose the cool with the guy: IMO it doesn't work - it's water off a duck's back in this industry.

The only this that really works is money, that's what gives you some power in dealing with builders. Therefore, if he says the plastering's done, arrange a meeting for you to check this with him. If it's not done, the stage is not complete, he doesn't get his money.

If the roof is not fully complete, he shouldn't get any more money either.

davidoco

Some good builders (especially small operators) can be great builders but very poor with their cash flow. He could be under pressure from the plasterer for money or even the roofer.

He is using you as his overdraft facility. Do talk to him and tell him that you can give him part of the stage payment say 40% of stage work done 40% of the stage payment. Seems reasonable.

smashey

I wouldn't pay him the full amount he is looking for. Hold a good percentage back in lieu of finishing the roof. Whatever about his cash flow, it is his problem.

squire1

I had the same situation with a contractor last year. He sent me his invoice before the work was complete. I just ignored it until the work was done. He asked once and I explained that the payment would be made when the stage was complete and not before. End of.

You've got to look at this in the worst possible scenario. What happens if you pay him for a stage that is not complete and then he goes bust ! You'll have paid him, your money is gone and you will have to pay someone else to finish it. It's not personal, it's business.

If you need an excuse so as not to offend the chap, tell him you need to get it certified by an Enginner before the bank will release the money to you. His cash flow is his problem but obviously you do not want to put the guy out of business so be reasonable with him. If he is in cash trouble, pay him a percentage of the stage value but still less than the actual value of the work done to date and the balance when the stage is completed to your satisfaction.

Kashkai

Just an update to this thread (bit long winded but bear with me) -

The builder called me last week (Tuesday) stating that he wanted to meet (Wednesday) to get the plastering stage payment from me. I said I couldn't get time off work at such short notice but I would be able to meet him on Friday evening. He said this didn't suit him and could I meet him in Tallaght at lunchtime Wednesday. I explained that I wouldn't have enough time to get from the city centre to Tallaght and back (Luas notwithstanding). He then became irritable and started to tell me that he had found leaks in the existing central heating system when it was connected up to the new pressurised system. I told him that there were no leaks in the old heating pipe network when we lived there. His reply was "there are now and its going to cost you". I said once again that there were no leaks and he stated that the floors had now been dug up and the old pipework removed. This is work that I hadn't agreed to (which he has done before) and he now expects me to pay. Things deteriorated from there and I haven't heard from him since.

When I went out to the house last Saturday, the windows were wide open and so where the french doors out the back. Anyone/thing could enter and leave as they pleased. The floors had been dug up in the old part of the house but there was no more work done. The neighbours confirmed that as of yesterday, he hasn't been near the place since last week.

Now where do I stand vis-a-vis my contract with him i.e. the floors are dug up, and the ceilings where he broke through from the old into the new part of the house are in a mess,

Surely these would be included in the "plastering" part of the contract, i.e. the ceilings and floors need to be finished.

His promise (verbal made in the first week of December) that we would be moving back home the end of February cannot possibly happen from the state of the house. We have been staying with my parents since the 9th November (not easy having 7 adults and children in a small house) and we are also paying €500 a month for storing our possessions (now €2,000 in total and rising). This is eating into our now meagre reserves and we have no prospect of getting our home back soon.

Finally, what advice would you give -
meet with the builder and demand he finishes the work
meet with the builder and pay him for the plastering stage even though there's work to be done
seek legal advice about getting out of the contract and getting another builder to finish the job.

David

squire1

If you go down the legal route, you are in a no win situation. The best you can hope for is that you have to pay the builder for the work he has done to date and then get another builder in to do the rest of the work. All this is going to take a long time and ultimately cost you both grief and money.

My advice would be to try and work out a compromise with the builder. Ring him or better still meet him and have a chat. I know it's your home but try and deal with the builder in a businesslike manner. Dont be a pussy with him but also remember that you main goal is to get the job completed and get your family home.

Cant you pay him 80% of the plastering stage, you would be within you rights not to pay him anything but then he might piss off and leave you in the lurch.

Also. Starting work that you had not agreed is a big no-no on his part and totally out of order. But at the same time, assuming everthing is above board, the work had to be done and he was just trying to move things along.

Best of luck with it.

muffler

I would be concerned regarding the security of the house which is an issue that may only be addressed with legal advice.

Regarding the stage payments - you have a contract so both you and the builder should adhere to it.

I am assuming that you have an architect/engineer so I would get him to see why the floor was dug up and if it was possible that the new heating system may have put undue stress on an older system.

I think you need to discuss all these points with your architect/engineer first of all and then meet the builder and thrash out whatever problems there are. Don't ever feel like he has you over a barrel so to speak - its the other way round in fact.

You may need to get advice on your rights should the builder be in breach of the contract. This advice could come in very handy when you meet him. Im not going to take on a solicitors role here but I think you would be pleasantly surprised with regards to your entitlements and I think the builder may be surprised too when its pointed out to him what his liabilities are.

Good luck in any event