SU Council Motions, Mon 29th January 2007

singingstranger

The next meeting of UCDSU Council takes place on Monday 29th January at 6:15pm, in a venue TBC by Services. Either myself or abelard will post here with the venue once it's confirmed. It'll prob be somewhere between Theatres O and R as per usual.

Attendance is, as always, open to all and anyone is welcome to seek speaking rights to speak on a motion. Pop along to ucdsu.net/classreps and find out who your Councillor is, and get in touch telling them how you'd like them to vote.

As standard, users are asked to declare affilliation on the relevant thread (if they haven't done so already) before posting on this thread, which is now reserved for discussion on the motions.

Motion Regarding Universities Policy of Semesterisation and Modularisation wrote:

Council notes the current policy of the university regarding Semesterisation and Modularisation and the changing system of teaching in the university.

Council acknowledges the many benefits of this policy for both the academics and students.

However, Council feels that this policy is being rushed by the university and as a result many flaws and problems have arisen for UCD students.

Furthermore council acknowledges the work of the current sabbatical officers in this regard.

However, Council fears that these problems will become a permanent feature for students at the university.

To ensure that the best possible resolution can be found, council calls upon the NUI and Dr. Garrett Fitzgerald to appoint an independent party, impartial to both the union and the university.

Council therefore mandates the President and Deputy President to campaign on behalf of UCDSU to achieve this objective.

Proposed by: Rory Geraghty – 1st Languages, Literature and film
Seconded by: Karen Doyle – 1st Geography

This motion is pending an amendment by the proposer to define the actual role of the independent party.

Motion Regarding UCDSU Voting at USI National Congress 2007 wrote:

Council recalls the mandate passed at its meeting of March 6th 2006, namely 'Motion regarding UCDSU voting at USI National Congress 2006', which mandated the UCDSU delegation to USI National Congress 2006 in regards to voting at congress in the following manner;

-That the UCDSU USI delegation would vote against a Procedural Motion 9(a) if it is put on motions that have members of the UCDSU USI delegation waiting to speak in favour or against them.

-In the event of motions being divided up as possible under procedural motions in standing orders, UCDSU delegates were mandated not to vote against parts of the motion which contains a mandate that UCDSU has explicitly agreed to support prior to that.

-Council further mandated UCDSU delegates not to vote in favour of parts of motions that UCDSU has agreed to oppose prior to that.

-Council would elect two persons prior to congress to act as whips in order to make sure that the delegation are voting according to their mandate.

Council reaffirms these mandates for the UCDSU delegation attending the USI National Congress of 2007.

Council in addition to the above, mandates the UCDSU USI delegation not to vote against motions submitted by UCDSU.

Council mandates UCDSU to organise a meeting to discuss the submission of motions to National Congress and to elect whips for Congress at said meeting at least 14 days prior to the deadline for submission of motions.

Proposed by: Ciara Brennan, 3rd Law Class Representative
Seconded by: Chris Bond, Arts & Human Sciences Programme Officer

Motion Creating a Constitutional Review Group wrote:

Council notes the Constitution of the Students Union was written in 1975 as a document which set out the principles by which the Union is to be run and governed. Council further notes that society, and the Union, have undergone changes not reflected in the document.

Council also notes that changes to the document brought about by referenda have created and have not properly outlined the functions of Programme Officers, Postgraduate, Evening and Mature Students Officer or the Deputy President.

Council therefore mandates the creation of a Constitutional Review Group, to include the Sabbatical Officers, 1 nominee of the President, 3 nominees of the Union Executive and 4 nominees of Union Council, to be elected later at this Council meeting with the intention of passing a referendum at the Sabbatical elections at the end of February.

Proposed by: Conor King, 1st Economics & Finance Rep
Seconded by: Claire Gallagher, 2nd Social Science Rep

There's also a question on notice for the meeting:

Questions on Notice wrote:

Will the President and Finance Officer be making the audited set of accounts for last year available to Council?

At the moment CopiPrint allows Commerce students and some others to use there student card as their Photocopying card, will the President be seeking this idea be extended to all students?

Submitted by: John Regan, 3rd Year School of Economics Rep.

I believe the Standing Orders that had previously been submitted for this meeting have since been withdrawn, perhaps abelard can confirm this?

Cheers
Gav

panda100

what exactly dioes USI congress do?Do we really need to send reps to it?

Stepherunie

Well we give more money than any other college to it, we'd be mad not ot send people.

dajaffa

panda100 wrote:

what exactly does USI congress do?Do we really need to send reps to it?

Well I haven't been but I gather it's something like council but on a bigger scale. We send 35 reps to it, generally 25 elected by council along with the 5 outgoing sabbatical officers and the 5 incoming sabbatical officers. All the colleges send reps + yes we do need to, I think running costs are covered by USI. It's on April the 2nd this year though which is during term time (unlike last year) so that could be slightly problematic given this new era of continuous assessment.

abelard

singingstranger wrote:

The next meeting of UCDSU Council takes place on Monday 29th January at 6:15pm, in a venue TBC by Services. Either myself or abelard will post here with the venue once it's confirmed. It'll prob be somewhere between Theatres O and R as per usual.

This time it is actually on in room G15 of the Agricultural Sciences building. Note on it's location can be found here

singingstranger wrote:

I believe the Standing Orders that had previously been submitted for this meeting have since been withdrawn, perhaps abelard can confirm this?

Affirmative.

gubbie

I thought it was 32-30 voters and 2 non

And G15 in the Ag block... cool! That thing goes up like I've never seen before... and cheers for listening to me Col

abelard

gubbie wrote:

I thought it was 32-30 voters and 2 non

And G15 in the Ag block... cool! That thing goes up like I've never seen before... and cheers for listening to me Col

Trust me, it was services. Although the diversity can't be all bad.

Stabshauptmann

Is G15 the bin?

dajaffa

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Is G15 the bin?

Tis yeah

I'm glad for a bit o' variety, though abelard knows where I want council!

gubbie

Ya SCIENCE BUILDING Theatre A

*dusts hands*

Het-Field

panda100 wrote:

what exactly dioes USI congress do?Do we really need to send reps to it?

National Congress Is a key part of USI's year. The week is very imporrtant as a years worth of policy is decided upon. urthermore, it gives the ordinary members of the Union a chance to have their say on a national level

singingstranger

Rory's motion has been amended and now reads as follows:

Motion Regarding Universities Policy of Semesterisation and Modularisation wrote:

Council notes the current policy of the university regarding Semesterisation and Modularisation and the changing system of teaching in the university.

Council acknowledges the many benefits of this policy for both the academics and students.

However, Council feels that this policy is being rushed by the university and as a result many flaws and problems have arisen for UCD students.

Furthermore council acknowledges the work of the current sabbatical officers in this regard.

However, Council fears that these problems will become a permanent feature for students at the university.

Council mandates UCDSU to proceed with a campaign regarding modularisation, council also madates UCDSU to lobby the NUI and Dr. Garett Fitzgerald to appoint an independent party, impartial to the college administration, to act as a mediator in finding a reslolution to the problems associated with the policy of Semesterisation & Modularisation.

Council therefore mandates the President, Deputy President and Education Officer to campaign on behalf of UCDSU to achieve this objective.

Proposed: Rory Geraghty – 1st Languages, Literature and film
Seconded : Karen Doyle – 1st Geography

And gubbie's right, we have 30 delegates to USI, and can also send two observers if we wish. This year because of our break being shifted forwards, Congress will be on during term-time so we may not be able to find 30 people to send!...

panda100

Stepherunie wrote:

Well we give more money than any other college to it, we'd be mad not ot send people.

How much do we give to USI?
What do USI do?
What have they done for UCD students this year?


Delighted its in ag!Now lets have one in each building,not just arts!

Chakar

panda100 wrote:

How much do we give to USI?
What do USI do?
What have they done for UCD students this year?


Delighted its in ag!Now lets have one in each building,not just arts!

95,000 euro out of our budget of 500,000

GusherING

panda100 wrote:

How much do we give to USI?
What do USI do?
What have they done for UCD students this year?


Delighted its in ag!Now lets have one in each building,not just arts!

I concur panda. USI have done feck all this year. What on earth do they spend 92,000 on?

dajaffa

GusherING wrote:

What on earth do they spend 92,000 on?

Ah don't under-estimate them like that, that's just what they get from UCDSU.

And they ran a voter registration campaign, got their information wrong and it's proved to be as useful as a freezer in the arctic.

abelard

Just so everyone knows, I've put a further motion on notice for Monday.

Reasons and details here

The_Minister

/calls for abelard to resiegn.

dajaffa

The_Minister wrote:

/calls for abelard to resiegn.

Noooooooooooooooooo, I'd have to resign in protest and then where would we be!!!!!

Het-Field

GusherING wrote:

I concur panda. USI have done feck all this year. What on earth do they spend 92,000 on?

Shows how much you feckin know

Blush_01

Het-Field wrote:

Shows how much you feckin know

Right so Paddy, you outline what you're doing for me and my fellow fee-paying postgrads (since you're postgrad officer). Why am I paying the USI? For a few links on the website that I can get from google? What am I getting that I wouldn't get if UCD had nothing to do with the USI? I mean, things as a postgrad are pretty shít as is, I'd love to know how much MORE shít it could be. (BTW, this is not a rant, regardless of the wording. It is actually genuine interest. I figure if you can tell me what you're doing then people will be able to see what kind of thing the other officers are involved in doing, if you know what you mean. In other words, show us how much we "feckin know".)

gubbie

Het-Field wrote:

Shows how much you feckin know

Ya exactly they're doing a worse job of getting to the people that they represent then anything. The only thing that has come up in the college that I can think of is the voter registration campaign and we all know what ridicule that got. The only thing else is the odd picture I've seen in the paper but it doesn't really interest me so I don't pay much attention. They've always seemed a bit crusty to me. I mean you're the postgrad officer (which in UCD usually has the oldest of them all) but you're the young (and handsome, of course) one. Its hard to believe that these guys were even in college!
The only thing that I see it of any use is a meeting place for all the presidents and other sabbats to get together and swap notes-thats how we learn and all and having the Education officer and President to bring a collective voice of all the su's to the government. It seems to me to always be just about the profile of it, nice picture in the paper and that.

But then again what do I know? Its usually only ever people who are involved in the student unions that know this kind of stuff... oh wait

Edit to say to Una (sorry if you spell it with the Oo): If you go to the USI website and look under Postgrads it will kindly refer you to the other postgrad officers in your college. Same with all the others actually... is that what ye do?

Blush_01

gubbie wrote:

If you go to the USI website and look under Postgrads it will kindly refer you to the other postgrad officers in your college. Same with all the others actually... is that what ye do?

Actually I checked it before (and have checked it out again today) and there's only information listed for DIT, UCC, Trinity, NUIG and Queens in the Postgrad Societies section, which lists the Postgrad Officer/Postgrad Student Rep/Mature Students Society type stuff. I guess they're doing a really good job of keeping us informed in UCD so the USI don't think we need to be doubly informed.:rolleyes: Really, it's charming. (Thanks though Gubbie )

gubbie

Ya ooops I just kinda read the start and then edited and then you know...

And that end of it all that question is for Paddy-I meant sorta that I don't believe that the sole position for the officers in USI is to off load them to the colleges officers. Thats all we can get from the web site anyway

panda100

That is an extorinate amount of money that we are just flushing down the toilet. I dont think we should be wasting time sending people all the way up to Donegal and coming up with motions for this circus.

I mean these were the motions at last years congress.




Congress notes
The proposed pipeline that is to be constructed in the North-West of Mayo bringing unrefined gas on-shore.
Congress further notes
That this extremely hazardous pipeline passes close to the homes of many locals, who have organised a sustained campaign against it.
Congress further notes
That this issue directly affects the daughter of Rossport resident Vincent McGrath who was jailed for his part in the campaign, and that this girl is a member of both USI and UCDSU. This issue has impacted greatly on her ability to fully devote herself to her third level studies.
Congress mandates
The President to write a letter offering the support of USI to each of the five families.
Congress further mandates
The Deputy President to circulate details of the Shell to Sea campaign to all COs, and to initiate a USI campaign in support of the Rossport 5 and their families.



Congress condemns
The lack of progress in the peace process thus far, which has led to the disenfranchisement of students within the Northern Area, through the imposition of top-up fees and water charges.
Congress further notes
That the further lack of an Assembly will have a detrimental effect on all students, regardless of their political opinion.
Congress therefore mandates
The Northern Area Officer and Officer Board to support a campaign to lobby both National Governments to find a way through this impasse as swiftly as possible, and to ensure that, whatever their political position, that all students can support such a campaign.

Congress notes
The Government of Iran, as part of a larger strategy of persecution, has systematically deprived Bahá’í is of higher education
Congress further notes
The Islamic Republic of Iran has also blocked Bahá’í efforts to establish their own institutions of higher learning
Congress further notes
The denial of education is based entirely on religious discrimination. Iranian authorities have made it clear that Bahá’ís would be allowed attend colleges and universities if they converted to Islam
Congress mandates
Officer Board to conduct an awareness campaign on the issue of the deprivation of the rights of Bahá’í

What a load of crap! And all the other motions on mental health,cutbacks,sti testing etc are all very well but not acted on!
Can the sabaattical officers of UCD take the time to lecture adress classes instead,since they rarely have time to do it,instead of heading to this?

GusherING

Het-Field wrote:

Shows how much you feckin know

Paddy, last year I argued in favour of keeping UCDSU in USI and I can see it's potential usefulness for students all over Ireland, however 92,000 and little to show for it just screams 'lunacy' to me.

Where was the reaction to the National Development Plan this week? Several billion are being pumped into 3rd level between now and 2013. Does the government have the ability to deliver on this? Where will this money be spent? Does it go into Hugh Bradys wages or into new books for library's? Is it in the Students Interests? Thats what you guys are meant to be arguing for. Our interests. Please do it on a level that is noticable if you wish to silence my criticism.

On a side point, abuse never wins the argument, you know that.

Miss GAAfia

Right, the USI debate continues.....here goes.

We shouldn't disaffiliate. That's it, from the off. But nor should we facilitate a lapse, unprofessional and largely invisible organisation which drains a massive amount of our financial resources. As UCDSU is the biggest player in the USI game, it's up to us to step up and hold ourselves accountable for letting USI roll along and remain largely invisible to the regular Joe Soap student on the concourse. If we leave, the organisation would struggle to exist and I do feel that a national organisation of the student body is just so important, we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to certain issues.

We are to blame in some regards for letting the situation get so appalling. And appalling it is, I doubt 40% of students in UCD have seen literature of, been addressed by or heard of USI. I have said it again and again, we should write up a shopping list of certain things we demand from USI over development plan of say, 5 years. Hold the gun to their heads!

Colm Hamrogue in Theatre L having questions flying at him.
Then I'll be happy.

Het-Field

Het-Field wrote:

Shows how much you feckin know

I have to wonder how any student is capable of finding out what USI is up to given that a simple thing like National Council minutes have not been placed online this year, and that all other years were taken off the website. How do you expect people to be happy if they don't know where their money is going?

singingstranger

Myth wrote:

I have to wonder how any student is capable of finding out what USI is up to given that a simple thing like National Council minutes have not been placed online this year, and that all other years were taken off the website. How do you expect people to be happy if they don't know where their money is going?

Even on that note, when Colm Hamrogue was addressing SU Council last year looking for UCDSU's endorsement, one of the items on his manifesto was to relaunch usi.ie as studentlife.ie which was supposed to be a one-stop portal for all student activity in the country. As far as I can see, other than the Congress info that's only made its way online this week, all that's been updated is the names of the Officers and Dan Wood's press releases, which are utterly irrelevant to the student body at large, going on the homepage.

On a related and more on-topic issue, I notice that the deadline for USI Congress motions is 5pm on Friday the 16th of February, meaning that if the motion on notice is passed, there'll need to be a meeting by, at latest, next Friday, to discuss UCD motions to be submitted.

singingstranger

singingstranger wrote:

Even on that note, when Colm Hamrogue was addressing SU Council last year looking for UCDSU's endorsement, one of the items on his manifesto was to relaunch usi.ie as studentlife.ie which was supposed to be a one-stop portal for all student activity in the country.

Well, one other addition to the USI website was a forum which is off limits for non-sabbatical officers. See here: http://www.usi.ie/forum/index.php

It originated from a UCDSU motion years ago about having a message board on the USI website, but was decided to be a private one instead of a place where non-sabbatical officers could contribute.

singingstranger

Myth wrote:

Well, one other addition to the USI website was a forum which is off limits for non-sabbatical officers. See here: http://www.usi.ie/forum/index.php

It originated from a UCDSU motion years ago about having a message board on the USI website, but was decided to be a private one instead of a place where non-sabbatical officers could contribute.

Which, Donal, I'm sure you'll agree, isn't really a one-stop shop for all USI members when it's only open to 70 people! :rolleyes: There's no reason why it couldn't have been left open to the public at large to post on too. I notice the Forum uses phpBB software; this can easily be tweaked so that the Officer types have full access to boards while other 'plebbian' users could have a more limited access still allowing them to post on a bulk of the boards.

singingstranger

singingstranger wrote:

Which, Donal, I'm sure you'll agree, isn't really a one-stop shop for all USI members when it's only open to 70 people! :rolleyes:

singingstranger

Forgot to mention earlier, this motion is now pulled as the Seconder has taken their name from it.

panda100

singingstranger wrote:

On a related and more on-topic issue, I notice that the deadline for USI Congress motions is 5pm on Friday the 16th of February, meaning that if the motion on notice is passed, there'll need to be a meeting by, at latest, next Friday, to discuss UCD motions to be submitted.

So pointless people making up motions for the sake of making them up. Its going to be the exact same motions that were at USI last year,the year before that and the year before that. Whats the point of submitting new motions when the motions that were passed last year were not acted on. Having USI in existence may mean 'we are all singing from the same hymn sheet' but we would be anyways regardless of USI existence.

Following on from what we were saying on the other thread I think the whole order of council should be changed.
Pandas itinery
Firstly,there should be officer reports and exec officer reports.These should be hand written and given to each class rep at the begining of council.

Then there should be an itinerary of events for what is happening in the next two weeks so class reps can be informed in order to inform their classes.

Thirdly there should be motions. Motions at the moment really take over council and they really are an insignificant part of the day to day life of the UCD student. We have to stop making these the focal point of council.

Lastly then there should be questions and answers or any feedback that class reps may have.

Sangre

God, those USI motions are something I'd make up if I wanted to parody SU hacks.

Miss GAAfia

panda100 wrote:

Having USI in existence may mean 'we are all singing from the same hymn sheet' but we would be anyways regardless of USI existence

Not true. An inclusive, all emcompassing National body would trump the view of any individual Union if there was fear of the return of fees for example.

Crash

USI, in theory, is an excellent idea. In practice, its a teensy bit of a mess. but the question of whether to disaffiliate from something or whether to work with it is a big one.


also, i've got to say the worst motions at congress (not saying there werent good ones) came from UCDSU. A union is only as good as its members so should be driving your sabbats to help turn it into something that will benefit yee.

Miss GAAfia

&#231 wrote: »

A union is only as good as its members so should be driving your sabbats to help turn it into something that will benefit yee.

Hence this motion. 14 days to discuss issues and to formulate well written and comprehensive motions.

&#231

&#231 wrote: »

also, i've got to say the worst motions at congress (not saying there werent good ones) came from UCDSU.

Most of the motions were rushed last year due to the UCDSU President forgetting to tell everyone else about the deadline.

panda100

Miss GAAfia wrote:

Hence this motion. 14 days to discuss issues and to formulate well written and comprehensive motions.

Do you really think any of the motions are going to have changed greatly from last year or the year before that?
Its a waste of everyones time coming up with motions just for the sake of it and that seems to be what we are doing year in year out. Everyone knows the big student issues that have to be acted on...serious lack of accomodation,education cutbacks etc etc.
There is no point all the universitys having a general consensus of ideas if they never get acted on.
How have USI acted on ANY of the motions that were passed last year?They havent! Just like UCDSU rarely acts on any of the motions they pass at council.Has bebo been banned yet?Nope.Have we seen a campus wide campaign to raise awarness against changes in curriculum across UCD? No....the list goes on.

USI congress and UCDSU council is just a chance for those who like the sound of their own voice to make up a stupid motion and inflict it on their rest of us class reps.

I have no doubt that USI could be a great instrument for change so that all universities could rally together and make Irish universities the best in the world. But its just not working and I really dont think we should waste UCDSU members time by tihinking through thorough motions and sending our sabbatical officers half way up the country when they are needed in UCD.

panda100

panda100 wrote:

I really dont think we should waste UCDSU members time by tihinking through thorough motions and sending our sabbatical officers half way up the country when they are needed in UCD.

If, as you asserted, that they aren't following mandates for all the weeks bar the 4 or so days that they are at USI Congress then I think that 4 days wouldn't really change any of that. Saying that I don't think that all sabbatical officers should leave i.e. the Education and/or Welfare Officer should stay behind to, yes, see to the education and welfare needs of students.

dajaffa

Well if anyone cares I plan to look into the viability of a motion mandating that in future USI congress be held from a Thursday to a Sunday. At the mo it runs from a Monday to a Thursday which basically means that for the colleges fo whom this doesn't co-incide with their holidays (like ourselves this year, it starts on April 2nd), a huge number of students are essentially excluded as they can't take that sort of time off college (basically sci, health sci, eng etc which have practicals) which certainly doesn't help the problem that those who tend to go for officerships of both UCDSU and USI tend to be Arts, Commerce or Law students.

Het-Field

dajaffa wrote:

Well if anyone cares I plan to look into the viability of a motion mandating that in future USI congress be held from a Thursday to a Sunday. At the mo it runs from a Monday to a Thursday which basically means that for the colleges fo whom this doesn't co-incide with their holidays (like ourselves this year, it starts on April 2nd), a huge number of students are essentially excluded as they can't take that sort of time off college (basically sci, health sci, eng etc which have practicals) which certainly doesn't help the problem that those who tend to go for officerships of both UCDSU and USI tend to be Arts, Commerce or Law students.

Id imagine that would be viable. Id say you would have to place it under the constitutional amendments.

Crash

Thats a great idea dajaffa - had always wondered what sense it made to have it during the week - maybe steering just enjoy their long weekends.

gubbie

Yea I love panda

And at exec some of the officers said that they shouldn't leave. I think Barry was one, Brian wasn't there

And I think Dan should be talking to Colm about changing the date now

gubbie

gubbie wrote:

And I think Dan should be talking to Colm about changing the date now

Given that it's up on the website, it would have been agreed by a meeting of national council so, in essence, it's too late.

Blush_01

Paddy, I'm waiting to be shown how much I feckin' know. Could you hurry it up a bit please, I forgot my jacket and I'm completely out in the cold.

Iz, bualadh bós (arís).

dajaffa

Myth wrote:

Given that it's up on the website, it would have been agreed by a meeting of national council so, in essence, it's too late.

Me is wondering if anyone from UCD even went to said council.