irish props

thebaz

As Ireland prepare as favorites for the 6 nations , after a poor weekend in the Heinken by all provinces , surely the most worring aspect in Irish rugby right now is the lack of quality props . Whats happening ?
Traditionally we have always produced good props , but since the retirement of Popplewell and the Claw , the quality is not there ?
As a nation we are getting bigger , and stockier , more people go to the gym , if we had 3 quality props i'd not only fancy Ireland for 6 nations, but the World cup itself .

Sangre

Its not necessarily the size, you won't get many propers heavier than Hayes. Its that scrummaging is very techincal and a good scrummager can drive back someone much bigger than him. I think its an aspect of the sport that we don't focus enough on at early stages causing a disadvantage later one.

I wouldn't say we have 'bad' props, they're just bad scrummagers. Very frustrating as a solid scrum is probably the best way of unleashing a backline setpiece. Something Ireland could use to devastating effect. It also nullifies the other team's attack. If Ireland could bring its scrum up to the standard of our lineouts other nations would struggle for any setpiece moves. Not going to happen any time soon though!

In the meantime, what we really need at the provincial and international level is some serious scrummaging coaching.

besty

In order to make the best of a reasonably bad bunch, Roly Meates should be used by all provinces and the Irish setup to work with the scrum. He is internationally recognised as one of the best around and having worked with him first hand on a number of occasions, I can certainly say he would help steady a problem area for Ireland.

That is only a temporary measure and as Sangre has said, the long term remedy to this problem for Ireland is by focusing more on the importance of the prop and setpiece specialist role from an earlier age.

Nukem

Think we are in trouble too - the Leinster and Munster scrum were destroyed over the weekend. Not so much of a worry is the Leinster front three but Horan and Hayes were torn apart. Need to bring in some very good scrummagers and fast.

Snickers Man

Nukem wrote:

Need to bring in some very good scrummagers and fast.

Only way we'll do that in time for the World Cup is ruthless application of the granny rule. Sod looking in England and New Zealand for that. Go West!!!
Get somebody from Argentina.

Just saw a program on RTE over the weekend about Argentinian farmers of Irish origin. Many of these guys were second or third generation Argentinian and still spoke English with a noticeable Irish accent. The Irish have had a big influence on Argentinian rugby. The international stadium in Buenos Aires is called Velez Sarsfield. One of the biggest rugby clubs is called the Hurling Club.

Argentina are **** hot scrummagers. They are helped by their physique which is produced by a high-protein beef-heavy diet (often farmed according to this program by ranchers with names like McCarthy and Martin). There is bound to be a savage prop or two from Argentina with an Irish granny which is all we would need.

Worth a thought.

bugler

The sad thing is I don't believe the IRFU are really doing anything to rectify this, although I may be wrong.

I think we should be looking at bringing in expertise from Argentina, SA, France if the right men are there. Also maybe getting young props out to these countries for half a season to expose them to different styles and methods. Maybe an exchange process between countries?

Argentina have at least one system of scrummaging designed by a physicist. We have chubby lads leaning on each other for a break

thebaz

Snickers Man wrote:

Only way we'll do that in time for the World Cup is ruthless application of the granny rule. Sod looking in England and New Zealand for that. Go West!!!
Get somebody from Argentina.

Just saw a program on RTE over the weekend about Argentinian farmers of Irish origin. Many of these guys were second or third generation Argentinian and still spoke English with a noticeable Irish accent. The Irish have had a big influence on Argentinian rugby. The international stadium in Buenos Aires is called Velez Sarsfield. One of the biggest rugby clubs is called the Hurling Club.

Argentina are **** hot scrummagers. They are helped by their physique which is produced by a high-protein beef-heavy diet (often farmed according to this program by ranchers with names like McCarthy and Martin). There is bound to be a savage prop or two from Argentina with an Irish granny which is all we would need.

Worth a thought.

Snickers good to see you back - thought you were gone for good -- anyway , agree that Argentina produce the best props and hookers (!!) now, but not sure any would jump ship to Ireland when we are due to play Argentina in a key world cup match later this year -- this game could be won and lost in the front row (hope not !) .

Eoin

bugler wrote:

I think we should be looking at bringing in expertise from Argentina, SA, France if the right men are there. Also maybe getting young props out to these countries for half a season to expose them to different styles and methods. Maybe an exchange process between countries?

That's a great idea, I seem to remember the Claw's trip to Australia doing him wonders.

I think that the tight-head props have suffered most from the new rules. It seems that if the tight-head brings his right arm down even the slightest bit, he will be penalised for an incorrect bind. This makes it very tough for taller tight-heads, as the loose-head can get in under an awful lot easier, without him getting penalised. I realise this is a safety issue, and is designed to stop the loose-head being turned all the way in, but it has really made it hard for the tight-heads.

besty wrote:

Roly Meates should be used by all provinces and the Irish setup to work with the scrum. He is internationally recognised as one of the best around and having worked with him first hand on a number of occasions, I can certainly say he would help steady a problem area for Ireland.

I'd say it may be his choice not to work full time anymore? He came down to train our scrum one night a couple of seasons ago, and he just had so much knowledge. It seems like an overload, but even if you only remember a couple of tips he gives you in a night, it can make a massive difference.