How to play Ax

ihatepairs

Just wondering....

Early in A tournie? Late?
Not talking about A10+ Thats worth seeing the flop with small beans (other factors notwithstanding)

But hands like A4o A4h A8o

Just wondering how some of you guys play them? If you do? pre flop.. post friendly flop... post unfriendly flop? Cash/tournie?

I tend to fold them. I might check small blinds to see a flop.... but I would love to hear/learn the whys and whats of Ax......

cardshark202

To cut a long story short you should fold the lot. They are worthless. You can complete the sb with suited aces but should not with Ax. Raise them if its folded to you in the SB or the button. Thats about it. Fold them all to raises.

HiCloy

Dont play them in cash games in particular - too often you'll have top pair and it'll be beaten. And aces on a board or 3 of a suit look scary to a potential caller

phantom_lord

Fold. Limp suited aces tho in decent position tho.


maybe I'm just paranoid, but I wouldn't surprised if a post saying "....my poker calculator say x..." appears.

LuckyLloyd

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Waltons

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Assuming the OP is genuine - most players who are learning the game over - value small Ax hands.

In my case, this was very true when I was starting out (not exactly that long ago ), and something I have only fairly recently tried to knock on the head, as I realised playing Ax will probably do more damage than good.
As Lloyd said, most players will go into big pots with high pairs, or AT+. Probably not worth the risk.

Although, as I said, I am a newbie

Hectorjelly

this question is far to broad to be any use

Mr. Flibble

Hectorjelly wrote:

this question is far to broad to be any use

No way, not for new players. LuckyLloyd has summed up a good way for a unexperienced player to treat them.

After the OP can discern between different situations where hand values will change I'm sure he'll post a more specific question.

Hectorjelly

Mr. Flibble wrote:

No way, not for new players. LuckyLloyd has summed up a good way for a unexperienced player to treat them.

After the OP can discern between different situations where hand values will change I'm sure he'll post a more specific question.

Just tell beginners not to play them and they will be fine, however its not really of any use to anyone who wants to know how to play them. The topic is just far too broad and will end up with people making generalisations that only really are applicable to the game they are playing and no real progress can be made on any topic because noone really knows what anyone is talking about.

The problem is that the focus of the question is on the wrong part of a poker hand. How do you play the cutoff when its been folded to you in the late stages of an mtt with 15 blinds is a question that can be discussed sensibly. How do you play any one paticular hand in any game brings up too many other topics

Mr. Flibble

I know what you are saying but one has to remember how someone new to poker sees the game. They don't see stack sizes, image, position; they see As7c.

BobSloane

I don't mind playing Ax suited if x is 2-5. These I find can be profitable hands but you cannot get too attached to the Ace factor. It is a good drawing hand and you can sometimes crush a guy you pretty much know has AK if you flop two pair. You can often sniff out the KK and QQ hands too by the paranoia after the ace on the flop.

Flops that come say 3 3 J where you have A3 are great as you know you have the top kicker if someone else has a 3.

Generally though you want to play these for cheap in late position as others have said , as it is similar to a connected suiters hand with the bonus of a nut flush draw

RoundTower

if you get one of these hands and no one has called yet, just call the blind. What you want is for someone to think you are weak and try to buy the pot with a raise. Then you can go all in and push them off the pot, this move has great fold equity.

Mr. Flibble

Hectorjelly wrote:

...will end up with people making generalisations that only really are applicable to the game they are playing...

RoundTower wrote:

If you get one of these hands and no one has called yet, just call the blind. What you want is for someone to think you are weak and try to buy the pot with a raise. Then you can go all in and push them off the pot, this move has great fold equity.

Good foresight. Don't try this in a cash game with 200BBs.

phantom_lord

BobSloane wrote:

I don't mind playing Ax suited if x is 2-5. These I find can be profitable hands but you cannot get too attached to the Ace factor. It is a good drawing hand and you can sometimes crush a guy you pretty much know has AK if you flop two pair. You can often sniff out the KK and QQ hands too by the paranoia after the ace on the flop.

Flops that come say 3 3 J where you have A3 are great as you know you have the top kicker if someone else has a 3.

Generally though you want to play these for cheap in late position as others have said , as it is similar to a connected suiters hand with the bonus of a nut flush draw

How are you gonna see a cheap flop if they have ak/qq/kk? They're not profitable hands/

BobSloane

phantom_lord wrote:

How are you gonna see a cheap flop if they have ak/qq/kk? They're not profitable hands/

It depends on what you consider cheap. The best hands to crack AK,QQ, KK etc are not similar hands. If someone you know is playing tight puts in a raise UTG you want them to have those hands. You then know what you have to beat. In the same way you might call those raises in LP with 66 etc in the hope of flopping a set and breaking them on a flop of 8 6 2. If you flop a flush draw you know you're drawing to the nuts, you can flop a flush draw and inside straight draw and put his nerve to the test with a shove on 12 outs. You can make a set with your low card. You can flop 2 pair and destroy a big Ace. I find them easy hands to get away from if I don't hit the board hard. Maybe I've just been fortunate with them a few times but this is gambling isn't it..? lol

Brayruit

Hectorjelly wrote:

Just tell beginners not to play them and they will be fine, however its not really of any use to anyone who wants to know how to play them. The topic is just far too broad and will end up with people making generalisations that only really are applicable to the game they are playing and no real progress can be made on any topic because noone really knows what anyone is talking about.

The problem is that the focus of the question is on the wrong part of a poker hand. How do you play the cutoff when its been folded to you in the late stages of an mtt with 15 blinds is a question that can be discussed sensibly. How do you play any one paticular hand in any game brings up too many other topics

My poker calculator says that you are 97.518% correct.

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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Jaden

At *any* table I play at, I'm looking for the guy who (over)plays A,x. Playing this kind of player is by far my most profitable avenue of advancement.

And there's always one.....

kebabfest

I agree. Playing against somebody with Ax who overvalues the A is very profiable.
People starting no limit should be told primarly to stay away from them.
I think they only should be played in a situation where you feel in a position where you can judge what cards another player is playing on\your position is good and or the other players in the pot are TIGHT.
Playing Ax against a calling station or an aggresive player is asking for trouble,

5starpool

kebabfest wrote:

I think they only should be played in a situation where you feel in a position where you can judge what cards another player is playing on\your position is good and or the other players in the pot are TIGHT.
Playing Ax against a calling station or an aggresive player is asking for trouble,

I don't particularly agree with this at all. Of course Ax is a pile of crud that should be treated with disdain usually, but against aggressive players or calling stations this type of hand can be quite profitable. By their nature aggressive players have air most of the time, and by their nature calling stations love second pair etc. If you can judge these players correctly then being in a pot against these players can be quite profitable, as long as you know when to do this.

kebabfest

5starpool wrote:

I don't particularly agree with this at all. Of course Ax is a pile of crud that should be treated with disdain usually, but against aggressive players or calling stations this type of hand can be quite profitable. By their nature aggressive players have air most of the time, and by their nature calling stations love second pair etc. If you can judge these players correctly then being in a pot against these players can be quite profitable, as long as you know when to do this.

I see your point about calling station. However I think what you are saying and what you actually do in practice are v different. I have rarely seen you play Ax against an aggresive player !!

5starpool

Thats because I am a wuss.

Who are you anyways?

kebabfest

now I didnt call u a wuss !
i just mentioned your comments dont reflect your style of play.
I'll bring it up next time I bump into you and you can lamp me for being full of sh1t !

5starpool

kebabfest wrote:

now I didnt call u a wuss !
i just mentioned your comments dont reflect your style of play.
I'll bring it up next time I bump into you and you can lamp me for being full of sh1t !

I want to know who you are now. Don't forget to enlighten me the next time I see you.

Marq

LuckyLloyd wrote:

This is an incredibly correct and logical post.
This post is fcuking mad.

It's a good thing we have you around here to help us sort the wheat from the chaff.

LuckyLloyd

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