320 diesel - Yay or nay?

JohnCleary

After looking for a diesel for a long time, I think i've my heart set on a 320 diesel.

Looking around the 2002/3 range with no more than 80k miles, they can be bought in the UK for around €10k, with VRT around €3200. Seem's good value when you consider Golfs are making the same kind of money (Give or take a few euro)

Anyone got any experiences with these cars? Are they 'bulletproof'/reliable/Pieces of sh1t? Anything I should be looking out for? (Apart from the obvious). There's any amount of them in the UK, so plenty to choose from, I wouldn't even consider buying over here with the crazy prices.

I'm just after something reliable and comfortable that'll pull a single axle trailer (Not a farmer) and enough poke to overtake the Sunday driver

Elessar

I am also interested in this, although it will be a long time before I can afford a 2 litre BMW

Do you have any links to the UK cars you are talking about? Prices you mention are terrific.

JohnCleary

Elessar wrote:

I am also interested in this, although it will be a long time before I can afford a 2 litre BMW

Do you have any links to the UK cars you are talking about? Prices you mention are terrific.

I rang up people in the Autotrader, once you mention 'Can you pick me up at the airport' they start to open to haggling. Best deal i've found so far is €10k for a 2002 with 70k miles, FSH, private sale but I found the garage where he bought it from so i'm gonna give them a ring, verify teh milage.

Kaskade

I had one of these for a few months, I was very happy with it, it handled the bad roads well, had punch for overtaking felt really balanced in the turns best handling 'ordinary' saloon car ive driven and gave over 500miles to a tank.

When it came to selling I got lots of calls so it was all good. If I had to have just one car to do everything I would be strongly leaning towards a 320D .

JohnCleary

That's Kaskade. That's the feeling I got. I drove a 530 to the UK and WOW so comfortable. If I could afford the tax on the extra CC i'd be leaning towards that. Oh well

cyborg

JohnCleary wrote:

....they can be bought in the UK for around €10k, with VRT around €3200. .....

VRT is ~ €5k on a 02 according to the online VRT calculator

JohnCleary

cyborg wrote:

VRT is ~ €5k on a 02 according to the online VRT calculator

Meant a 2001 sorry. 2002 would be total budget VRT wise, would prefer to VRT a 2001

Kaskade

The tax on the 3 Litres is sickening thats why id lean towards the 2litre you can have it remaped or what ever if you feel its underpowered, that was my first diesel and I didnt mind the noise from it either which I thought would bother me

Mr Magnolia

Have a 320d, have it remapped, couldn't be happier . Great car, great performance.

Stephen

Did the remapping affect fuel consumption much?

Elessar

What is remapping?

Stky10

Sparks400 wrote:

Have a 320d, have it remapped

Out of curiousity, how much did the remapping cost, and did you have to declare it to your insurance company?

Mr Magnolia

Stephen wrote:

Did the remapping affect fuel consumption much?

Still in the early stages - too early to say. PM me in a week or 2 and I'll let you know, I'm told to expect benefits of 5-15% but I'm not bothered once it doesn't go the other way.

Elessar wrote:

What is remapping?

Re-mapping is down-loading the parameters for the ECU (Engine Control Unit) sending them off and having them re-configured to give better power output and having them uploaded again(expect 25-35% improvement from a turbo-diesel)

Stky10 wrote:

Out of curiosity, how much did the remapping cost?

It will cost between €400-€500, depending where you are in the country.

Stky10 wrote:

did you have to declare it to your insurance company?

An engine remapping is more or less undetectable, certainly undetectable by an insurance group though I'm open to correction here. It's up the individual, but from a legal point of view you probably should notify your insurer, ask the question of your company before hand, every insurerer is different.

Mc-BigE

You do realise there’s 2 different models of 320d? A 136bhp 1999-2001
And a facelift 150bhp 2001/2 - 2005 model.

I’ve owned/own both over the years and can tell you the facelift model is much more refined than the earlier model, better suspension, and engine. If you can
Stretch to a late 2002/ early 2003 6 speed sport model, it would be worth it in the long run.

Having said that the 136BHP is a good 2nd place and better MPG than the 150BHP.

But check your Irish prices again you should be getting 136BHP 320d for around the 18K mark if not cheaper, this is very close to the importing price including all taxes/flights/ferry/hassle/time off work etc.

Mr Magnolia

Mc-BigE wrote:

You do realise there’s 2 different models of 320d? A 136bhp 1999-2001
And a facelift 150bhp 2001/2 - 2005 model.

I’ve owned/own both over the years and can tell you the facelift model is much more refined than the earlier model, better suspension, and engine. If you can
Stretch to a late 2002/ early 2003 6 speed sport model, it would be worth it in the long run.

Very true, should have mentioned this myself. Think the facelift happened in '02, not sure though, the difference is obvious

Mc-BigE

yes the facelift happened very end of 2001 and most are registered in Jan 2002, forgot to mention that the early facelift had some turbo failure problems, which effected some cars manufactored in the first few months of 2002, the "problem" which by the way BMW NEVER acknowledged, was fixed with a upgraded Turbo from around september 2002, (the month "9" is stamped on a plate under the bonnet)

Must stress that it doesn't happen to all cars, but i think a buyer should be aware of it.

cyborg

The facelift was in sept 01 and any 320d made between this and nov 03 is prone to turbo failure! so either buy a pre facelift or go for a 04 model which had a different turbo fitted by BMW which is much more reliable.

JohnCleary

Thank's for all the info guys, i'm writing down notes, honest!

cyborg - I just read on another forum about the turbo failure, sounds scary

cyborg

JohnCleary wrote:

Thank's for all the info guys, i'm writing down notes, honest!

cyborg - I just read on another forum about the turbo failure, sounds scary

Scary and very expensive because the when the turbo blows it can also damage the engine and cat etc.
The one prone to failure is a garrett turbo and it was replaced with a Blackdot iirc.

HashSlinging

wow a bmw giving engine problems !! dont let junkyard see this thread..

Kaskade glad to see you've turned to the dark side!!

Kaskade

HashSlinging wrote:

wow a bmw giving engine problems !! dont let junkyard see this thread..

Kaskade glad to see you've turned to the dark side!!

Yeah when I went chasing diesels Germans seemed the way to go, Ive had two they wernt as reliable as my Japanese cars but more comfortable, refined and better ride quality. Particularly fond of the BM's handling I will be going back there again soon.

Elessar

What kind of finance do people take out when buying these types of expensive cars? Dealer finance, or bank loan?

I would assume there are a few dealers doing a 0% interest deal?

JohnCleary

Elessar wrote:

What kind of finance do people take out when buying these types of expensive cars? Dealer finance, or bank loan?

I would assume there are a few dealers doing a 0% interest deal?

Please stop asking off topic questions. Start a new thread if you like. To answer your question, i'd hardly call €10k expensive for a car

unkel

Elessar wrote:

What kind of finance do people take out when buying these types of expensive cars? Dealer finance, or bank loan?

Off topic. If you are interested in getting out a car loan or how other people finance their cars, I suggest you start your own thread

TKK

I just got a 2004 320d last Friday. All I can say is go for it

Eoin

I have mine 10 months or so now, and I love it. It's a 00 320D, so has the 136BHP engine which isn't as refined as the newer 150BHp engine, but still not bad. Personally I prefer the look of the pre-face lift model.

Since buying it, I have had to replace the MAF, at a cost of €400 or so. This has made it go a LOT better, but the MPG has dropped considerably, so have to check that out. I think the MAF replacement is common enough on these cars.

The 320D seems to come with a CD player, MFSW and cruise control as standard. The cruise control is a great feature.

If you're into it, there are lots of subtle mods you can make (changing orange indicator lenses to clear etc), which won't look too chav-ish. I've done a bit to mine, which unfortunately has totally cancelled out any fuel savings I've made!

A few little things though:

• At best, I have gotten about 40MPG, 10 off the stated figure. I am well below this at the moment, but hope to have it sorted
• The back seats are tight enough for 3 passengers, but this may not be an issue at all
• I have found the interior as prone to creaking as much as any other car I have owned, and mine was in pretty mint condition when I got it. The interior can be very bland if you get the standard grey plastic trim. However, a lot of the trim can be replaced with 2nd hand OEM stuff.
• The CD stack in the boot skips with even the lightest bump in the road. I'm replacing it with an OEM iPod link
• When stuff goes wrong, it can be bloody expensive to get fixed

Mc-BigE

eoin_s wrote:

I have mine 10 months or so now, and I love it. It's a 00 320D, so has the 136BHP engine which isn't as refined as the newer 150BHp engine, but still not bad. Personally I prefer the look of the pre-face lift model.

Since buying it, I have had to replace the MAF, at a cost of €400 or so. This has made it go a LOT better, but the MPG has dropped considerably, so have to check that out. I think the MAF replacement is common enough on these cars.

The 320D seems to come with a CD player, MFSW and cruise control as standard. The cruise control is a great feature.

If you're into it, there are lots of subtle mods you can make (changing orange indicator lenses to clear etc), which won't look too chav-ish. I've done a bit to mine, which unfortunately has totally cancelled out any fuel savings I've made!

A few little things though:

• At best, I have gotten about 40MPG, 10 off the stated figure. I am well below this at the moment, but hope to have it sorted
• The back seats are tight enough for 3 passengers, but this may not be an issue at all
• I have found the interior as prone to creaking as much as any other car I have owned, and mine was in pretty mint condition when I got it. The interior can be very bland if you get the standard grey plastic trim. However, a lot of the trim can be replaced with 2nd hand OEM stuff.
• The CD stack in the boot skips with even the lightest bump in the road. I'm replacing it with an OEM iPod link
• When stuff goes wrong, it can be bloody expensive to get fixed

Nice looking car, yes forgot to mention i also replaced the MAF in my old 00 320d, your MPG is way off, is she re-mapped/chipped? you should be getting close to 570-600miles for a full tank (60L). might be worth making sure the new MAF is after been re-programmed correctly.

OP. its not all doom and gloom regarding the Turbo failure, a lot of high mileage smokers can have problems with turbo failure, its just wear and tear, but having said that the the 2002 320d model can blow at lower mileage.

It happened to me last year (2002 320d touring with 58K on the clock!),
Luckly it was covered under a 1 year BMW warranty i got when buying the car in Jan 2006, turbo stoped whistling after a hard 1st gear acceleration, the engine automatically went into a kind of recovery mode, ie i couldn't accelerate above 1500rpm.
No damage to the engine,front cat was replaced and new turbo.

have a look at the specialist websites for more details and peoples experiences.
http://www.bmwcarclubforum.co.uk/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=20
http://www.bmwland.co.uk

DublinWriter

JohnCleary wrote:

I'm just after something reliable and comfortable that'll pull a single axle trailer (Not a farmer) and enough poke to overtake the Sunday driver

I bought an Irish BMW 03 320D last year and it's all good so far.

It was my first diesel and I was a bit worried, being a petrolhead for many years. But its got poke by the stickfull (150BHP) and very economic.

Some 320Ds of that year have a problem with the exhaust box rattling, so ensure you get some sort of guarantee.

You'll get much more value for money if you buy up north.

JohnCleary

I plan on buying in the UK, but after reading the above posts, I might buy up the North from a dealer and get a warranty

TKK

Biggest problem I've found so far is the lag. I'm thinking of getting it remapped to resolve that. This should also increase fuel efficiency. At the moment the obc is telling me I'm getting 40mpg.

TKK

Also the MAF costs around E400 from the main dealer but the exact same part can be gotten elsewhere for around the E100 mark. My last car was a Golf TDi and it also suffered from the MAF failure problem.

Eoin

TKK wrote:

Biggest problem I've found so far is the lag. I'm thinking of getting it remapped to resolve that. This should also increase fuel efficiency. At the moment the obc is telling me I'm getting 40mpg.

Really? I thought the 320D is renowned for suffering very little lag, I certainly don't notice much at all.

TKK wrote:

Also the MAF costs around E400 from the main dealer but the exact same part can be gotten elsewhere for around the E100 mark. My last car was a Golf TDi and it also suffered from the MAF failure problem.

I heard this also; I think Bosch make a MAF sensor that works in most German TD cars, well worth checking out.

Cyrus

TKK wrote:

Biggest problem I've found so far is the lag. I'm thinking of getting it remapped to resolve that. This should also increase fuel efficiency. At the moment the obc is telling me I'm getting 40mpg.

remap def wont sort the fuel efficency, itll make it worse if you drive faster with the increased power.

id imagine fuel trouble are related to the maf, im getting over 36mpg on a 323ci which is a 2.5 litre petrol so theres something wrong if your only getting 40!

Eoin

Cyrus wrote:

remap def wont sort the fuel efficency, itll make it worse if you drive faster with the increased power.

id imagine fuel trouble are related to the maf, im getting over 36mpg on a 323ci which is a 2.5 litre petrol so theres something wrong if your only getting 40!

The MPG Mc-BigE referred to earlier sounds about right for a 00 320D.

I've heard your MPG can increase slightly with a remap, especially if you do a lot of motorway miles, but the chances are - as you said - that you will drive the car harder, so it's not likely.

If you are doing big miles down to Limerick on a regular basis, then you will be getting good MPG, as a 2.5 litre engine will be well able for that, but I'd imagine it may drop in city driving conditions.

Mc-BigE

TKK wrote:

Biggest problem I've found so far is the lag. I'm thinking of getting it remapped to resolve that. This should also increase fuel efficiency. At the moment the obc is telling me I'm getting 40mpg.

That sounds like an MAF problem to me, the Turbo lag shouldn't be that noticable i.e. you should have turbo spooling in at around 1500-2000rpm, unless your in the wrong gear or something.

TKK

My mpg figure is coming from the on board computer calculations and from what I've read it could be slightly out (there's a conversion factor set that can be wrong apparently). I will be doing a couple of tests myself to see if it's correct but I was only getting about 48 in the Golf (TDi 90bhp) so I reckon it's bound to be lower for a bigger car. I wouldn't be driving any faster if I get a remap - I just want the power to come online instantly for manouvres such as overtaking and entering busy roundabouts etc. If there's no change to driving style following a remap then there should be gains in mpg.

The turbo definitely kicks in alright but there is a noticeable lag (only a couple of seconds but it annoys me) between when you put the foot down and things start to happen. Once it kicks in there's full power available. When test-driving I found the same accross a number of different cars. I've had the MAF fail on the Golf before and the turbo just didn't kick in.

Mc-BigE

TKK wrote:

My mpg figure is coming from the on board computer calculations and from what I've read it could be slightly out (there's a conversion factor set that can be wrong apparently). I will be doing a couple of tests myself to see if it's correct but I was only getting about 48 in the Golf (TDi 90bhp) so I reckon it's bound to be lower for a bigger car. I wouldn't be driving any faster if I get a remap - I just want the power to come online instantly for manouvres such as overtaking and entering busy roundabouts etc. If there's no change to driving style following a remap then there should be gains in mpg.

The turbo definitely kicks in alright but there is a noticeable lag (only a couple of seconds but it annoys me) between when you put the foot down and things start to happen. Once it kicks in there's full power available. When test-driving I found the same accross a number of different cars. I've had the MAF fail on the Golf before and the turbo just didn't kick in.

I know what you mean about the "put your foot down and wait"

But that’s normally down to faulty MAF or driving style

I good test to see if your MAF is faulty is while driving at say 30mph,accellerate in 3rd, the car should accelerate smoothly up to 4500rpm if not i.e. if there's a "flat spot" in the middle, your MAF needs replacing or at the very least cleaning (with caution!)

another test is to disconnect the cable to maf and see does it make it any worse.

TKK

In this case I think it's more down to my driving style and how quickly I would like the power delivered.

E.g. this morning at a roundabout I waited for a break in traffic and, starting from 0, moved off. A couple of seconds elapsed before I started to get the full benefit of the engine meaning I was only barely moving going into a gap of (relatively) faster moving traffic. I would like to be able to have the ability to get out of the way quickly.

Another scenario is the motorway when I'm in the inside & spot something slower moving ahead and want to move out into faster moving traffic in the outside lane. Sometimes the safest/largest gap in traffic in the other lane can be the one directly beside me at the time but I can't always get the car to respond quickly enough that I can match the outer lanes speed in order to move out. I would like the power to be available to me so that I can tap into it that bit quicker.

galwaytt

Not had a BeeEmm diesel, but MAF is very common failure on a wide variety of engines.

Also a possibility is the dump valve or EGR valve, as, slightly open or operating improperly, will severely curtail boost, and increase fuel consumption.

You could upgrade your dump valve to a Forge unit, and get better reliability and better performance, it being of much higher quality than the OEM unit.

btw, a friend of mine will be selling his 01 320d Touring (estate), in about 2 weeks, if you're interested. Mileage is 107k.

JohnCleary

galwaytt wrote:

Not had a BeeEmm diesel, but MAF is very common failure on a wide variety of engines.

Also a possibility is the dump valve or EGR valve, as, slightly open or operating improperly, will severely curtail boost, and increase fuel consumption.

You could upgrade your dump valve to a Forge unit, and get better reliability and better performance, it being of much higher quality than the OEM unit.

btw, a friend of mine will be selling his 01 320d Touring (estate), in about 2 weeks, if you're interested. Mileage is 107k.

I'm not looking for a Touring, or anything with over 80k miles. Thanks though

DanThe

TKK wrote:

The turbo definitely kicks in alright but there is a noticeable lag (only a couple of seconds but it annoys me) between when you put the foot down and things start to happen. Once it kicks in there's full power available. When test-driving I found the same accross a number of different cars. I've had the MAF fail on the Golf before and the turbo just didn't kick in.

The turbo needs plenty of exhaust gases to get going. So if we are driving along at 1800 rpm and then put the foot down there will not be enough gases to get the turbo working hard.

What I would do is drop a gear or at the risk of sounding like a clutz, maybe even two. This should get you moving fairly lively.

For taking off from a stop in a hurry, (gap in traffic as above) I find that sliping the clutch a bit more than normal to keep the revs up does the trick. You need to use you own judgment so that you aren't to hard on the car.


I don't have a 320d though, next car maybe(mpg concerns and lack of cash) . But I still get caught out in the wrong gear with my 1.9tdi waiting for the yoke to wake up!

JohnCleary

Hi again guys,
I have the search narrowed down to pretty much 2 cars.

One is a private sale, seems a decent price. 2002. It's the SE model. Has Xenon lights and Fogs, Titanium trim interior, half leather etc. Milage is 105,000

Other is a dealer sale, much more expensive. 2003. It's the ES model, no xenon lights, no fogs, standard interior. Milage is 60k. The price difference is £2k Sterling.

Personally, I prefer the 2002 as it's not the poverty spec. Is 105k miles too much to be buying?

Also, does anyone know what varience is in the models? ie. What does E, ES, SE mean?

unkel

JohnCleary wrote:

Is 105k miles too much to be buying?

The car can easily handle high mileages, provided it is properly serviced. Chances are that many of those were motorway (=easy) miles. Come resale in Ireland, you will probably have a problem or suffer in the depreciation department. If you plan to own it for years, it doesn't really matter

Is the '03 a 6-speed manual and the '02 a 5-speed manual?

JohnCleary

unkel wrote:

The car can easily handle high mileages, provided it is properly serviced. Chances are that many of those were motorway (=easy) miles. Come resale in Ireland, you will probably have a problem or suffer in the depreciation department. If you plan to own it for years, it doesn't really matter

Is the '03 a 6-speed manual and the '02 a 5-speed manual?

You've said what i'm thinking. But I plan on keeping this guy for a fair while so i'm not too bothered about resale value. I just need a nice comfortable car.

Yeah, the 03 is a 6 speed and the 02 is a 5 speed.

Just off the phone with the 02 guy, I think i'm going to go for it. The only negative thing is the 5 speed as opossed to 6 speed box. Other than that it has Xenon lights, Fog lights, Half leather interior, sports wheel, etc. Standard (5 spoke I think) 16" wheels which will suit my back nicely... None of that 18" low profile lark - My back just can't handle it. It has had a FSH until 80k miles, then he started getting his own mechanic to do the work. She's MOT'ed until the end of 07. He has replaced the full exhaust under warranty from where he bought it from. So all I need to be careful of is the Turbo. Regular oil changes and not thrashing it should do.

Oh god.... I'm buying a BMW, i'm going to be the most hated person on the road, help!

Mc-BigE

JohnCleary wrote:

Hi again guys,
I have the search narrowed down to pretty much 2 cars.

One is a private sale, seems a decent price. 2002. It's the SE model. Has Xenon lights and Fogs, Titanium trim interior, half leather etc. Milage is 105,000

Other is a dealer sale, much more expensive. 2003. It's the ES model, no xenon lights, no fogs, standard interior. Milage is 60k. The price difference is £2k Sterling.

Personally, I prefer the 2002 as it's not the poverty spec. Is 105k miles too much to be buying?

Also, does anyone know what varience is in the models? ie. What does E, ES, SE mean?

Think of it this way, the money you save (2Kstg) should easly pay for new turbo (specialist garage) if the worst is to happen.
105K, she nicely run in for you:)

E,ES,are for E90 models AFAIK, but the SE model is the higher spec in the E46, things like Spots,bigger Alloys etc.

Look out for Climate Control instead of Air-Con, you'll know the difference because the Air-con will have 3 Dials, were as the CC will have all buttons.
Also, m-function wheel, rear parking sensors. And M-pack bumpers are also nice.

BTW the 5 speed is fine, i had a loan of a 118d 6 speed from the garage while they were doing my turbo, and found the 6 speed was only good on motorways. i.e. the ratio is too low for 60mph

JohnCleary

Here are some low res pics:






It has Climate Control AND AirCon, whats the difference? It's the SE model but has the normal alloy's as you can see. She has a CD changer and uprated speakers. She has rear parking sensors also.

Mc-BigE

looking at the pictures, it has climate control, so don't worry, its the better of the two.
Nice Car!, only bit of advice.

Haggle like F*%K:D

JohnCleary

Mc-BigE wrote:

looking at the pictures, it has climate control, so don't worry, its the better of the two.
Nice Car!, only bit of advice.

Haggle like F*%K:D

LOL thanks. I'm after something standard'ish and comfortable. I'll buy a fast car when I leave college and get a real job. In the meantime, a nice economical diesel will do... I know the first question i'll be asking when I bring her back "How much for a remap"

Mc-BigE

JohnCleary wrote:

LOL thanks. I'm after something standard'ish and comfortable. I'll buy a fast car when I leave college and get a real job. In the meantime, a nice economical diesel will do... I know the first question i'll be asking when I bring her back "How much for a remap"

I wish i had a 5 year old BMW when i was in college:D

RobAMerc

climate is good to have, much better than normal a/c imo.

the lights in my 3 series are shocking I find, the xenons are a must i reckon.

JohnCleary

Can anyone describe the difference between aircon and climate control?

Does anyone know if the Xenon light's are actual Xenon lights that have the blue flicker, or are they just projector lights?