Protein

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Forgive me if this is the most stupid question but ............ is it possible to freeze protein shakes without effecting the product ?????

Shrimp

I'm not sure if it would affect the protine, but why would you want to freeze it?

gary the great

AFAIK a protein shake must be consumed within 20mins or it gets denatured?

I wouldnt bother freezing it, just prepare it when you need it, it only takes a minute!

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Shrimp wrote:

I'm not sure if it would affect the protine, but why would you want to freeze it?

Well you see ......... if you freeze it you can close your eyes and with a little bit of imagine you can pretend its Ben & Jerry's, lol

Ah no seriously I find the shakes hard to take, they are not particularly nice now are they

g'em

There's loads and loads of flavours and brands out there, you just need to find one you like. I have vanilla in my porridge, chocolate PWO or with milk and mint choc with vanilla ice cream when I want a treat

Shrimp

Alright, but wont freezing it extend the a time you have to keep it in your mouth, a shake you can horse down. Anyways, after some reading I found out that freezing it shouldn't denature the protine. Acidity and/or heat do that. What g'em said is a good idea too.

justsomebloke

what flavour and brand are you using just as a matter of interest. I think the EAS chocolate is actually quite nice

Jumpy

I found the EAS just plain nasty.

The best by far I have ever come across is the Musashi P2 stuff. Its the only one I can actually stomach the taste of. The vanilla one anyway, I havent tried the other ones, its too expensive to discover that you dont like the taste.

jester77

Try a few different ones, I wouldn't freeze them.
ON are ok, have a few flavours that are drinkable. Not so nice with water but great with milk. I have the ON Vanilla in the morning. Double chocolate, mint chocolate and rocky road are also ok. The best I've ever tasted is easily Dymatize's Butter Cream & Toffee. It's more like a desert, really nice and there is no after taste and that's with just water. I have this one all the time except mornings, bit too sweet for then.

rubadub

I have unflavoured whey. Mix it with milk, ice cubes and tesco strawberry milkshake powder. Or with pineapple juice.

Not sure about freezing, but some icecreams contain whey powder, probably steroids too...;)

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Its the Nutrition X Big Whey Pro from Fitness Ireland in vanilla and mint choc .......... and maybe its just me but I find it really horrible :eek: Any other ideas how to make it easier gladly welcomed .......

Dragan

Brown_Eyed_Girl wrote:

Its the Nutrition X Big Whey Pro from Fitness Ireland in vanilla and mint choc .......... and maybe its just me but I find it really horrible :eek: Any other ideas how to make it easier gladly welcomed .......

Not a fan of Vanilla but love the Choc Mint.

Out of interest, how much liquid do you mix it with? I find that can make a massive difference.

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Mmmmm I use the shaker thingy and half fill it .......... I suppose I would use a mug full more or less .............. why what would you suggest ?

Incidentally could you use hot milk or water to the mint choc to make a hot drink or would that taste worse ?

Vegeta

i love the mint choc when mixed with skimmed milk, they are beautiful.

With water i find em a bit rougher to take alright

r3nu4l

Freezing won't denature the protein but it's best to stick it in the freezer as soon as it is made. Make sure you use a suitable container for the freezer

TerrorFirmer

If you think Nutrition X stuff is bad.....don't ever drink Maximuscle.

I think Nutrition X Vanilla is by far the nicest,tried the Choc one and it was nauseating. Although by far the best one I've ever tested is the York Strawberry they sell in a 4 pack in Argos - not entirely dissimilar to a regular, off the shelf milkshake mix.

Shrimp

Add some vanilla essence or something? i dono..

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Shrimp wrote:

Add some vanilla essence or something? i dono..

Now there's an idea ................. going to go and try that immediately

estariol

Seems to be a lot of misinformation circulating regarding protein and it being denatured. Even denatured protein performs it's growth and repair functions, as regards temperature, pH, physical stress, foam...etc they will all denature protein.
As I said already this fact is largely irrelevant, nevermind some magic 20 minute window.

learnerplates

Don't mean to be smart but I found that the natural providers of protein are much more beneficial (usually turkey) simply because you get the protein and it's also a meal which means you don't have to eat anything else which results in weight loss too, the protein shakes etc still leave you hungry.
Of course if your a vegie or somthing it's not the solution.

r3nu4l

estariol wrote:

Seems to be a lot of misinformation circulating regarding protein and it being denatured. Even denatured protein performs it's growth and repair functions, as regards temperature, pH, physical stress, foam...etc they will all denature protein.
As I said already this fact is largely irrelevant, nevermind some magic 20 minute window.

Yep, denatured protein is simply amino acid peptide chains and should be fine in helping to build muscle through repair High temperature will denature protein, low temperature will not (usually). This is how it's possible to freeze restriction enzymes and protein samples in labs.

Learnerplates, the point of protein shakes is that in a single serving they contain huge amounts of protein that you couldn't possibly get through in a single meal. You'd have to be eating a lot of turkey to get the equivalent amount of protein as in one of those shakes

TerrorFirmer

learnerplates wrote:

Don't mean to be smart but I found that the natural providers of protein are much more beneficial (usually turkey) simply because you get the protein and it's also a meal which means you don't have to eat anything else which results in weight loss too, the protein shakes etc still leave you hungry.
Of course if your a vegie or somthing it's not the solution.

Protein shakes are supplement to your meals, they do not replace them...

learnerplates

All too true with regards to the meals and protein.
Interesting about the freezing.

hardtrainer

Estariol has already said it, but I want to reiterate it. It doesn't matter whether the protein has been denatured or not, the body will use the amino acids regardless. In fact, denaturing protein is one of the reasons we cook food, i.e. break down the proteins to make not just them, but also the carbohydrates, more available to our gut for digestion.

This idea of consuming a protein shake within 20 mins is somewhat of a myth. The only problem with not consuming the shakes promptly is that if they are not kept cool, they will begin to breakdown and smell, much the same whey ( ;-) ) that milk starts to smell when not kept cool.

There is no reason not to cook, freeze, blend, do whatever you want with these protein shakes. In fact, I use double choc flavour ON Whey (which tastes great with water and/or milk) to make my own protein bars, with oats, honey and peanut butter. Easy to bake them in the oven, then cut and eat (or seal in airtight container and keep in fridge for a week or so).

rubadub

HavoK wrote:

Protein shakes are supplement to your meals, they do not replace them...

True. Although I do not like the word "supplement" since it can lead to various connotations to many ignorant people. This is where the whole crap of lumbering protein in with steroids comes from. I hear people talking of "doing" protein like it was a drug. (I agree it is a supplement though)

Most protein powders are derived from milk, just like butter is. So butter contains mostly just fat, fruit juices contain mainly carbs & water, and protein shakes are protein & water. None should be treated as a meal on its own, but it is rare to hear of butter or juice regarded as supplements, and I could not imagine somebody saying they have started "doing" butter.

Little Miss Muffet has been eating whey for centuries and never turned to steroids, much to the dismay of Tony Ward...

g'em

Without meaning to sound pedantic (which I usually am anyway) the 20 minute window isn't really a myth at all.

When a protein gets denatured (like when an egg is cooked) the amino acids are still available to the body for use, but some of the aa's in whey protein are relatively fragile and will themselves get broken. So after hydration they're rendered pretty useless to the body.

And as for protein being a supplement and not a meal, that's absolutely true, but very simply after a workout your body needs protein (and carbs) and it needs it fast. Whey shakes provide an quick, easily absorbed source of protein for your body, and so it's probably your best choice for a PWO meal.

Shrimp

Brown_Eyed_Girl wrote:

Now there's an idea ................. going to go and try that immediately

How'd it go?

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Shrimp wrote:

How'd it go?

LOL ...................... well I added a drop or two and well it did taste better, but what can I say its like an immediate aftertaste or something that I dont like, I cant quite explain it, but it was a tad easier, thanks for that

Mind you I wouldnt mind hard's recipe for his protein bars :eek:

Shrimp

Maybe you need to try a different brand? also... Try putting the powder in a cheesecake there's loads of other things u can do with it too.

davyjose

hardtrainer wrote:

There is no reason not to cook, freeze, blend, do whatever you want with these protein shakes. In fact, I use double choc flavour ON Whey (which tastes great with water and/or milk) to make my own protein bars, with oats, honey and peanut butter. Easy to bake them in the oven, then cut and eat (or seal in airtight container and keep in fridge for a week or so).

Recipe please - sounds amazing.

hardtrainer

g'em wrote:

....... the amino acids are still available to the body for use, but some of the aa's in whey protein are relatively fragile and will themselves get broken. So after hydration they're rendered pretty useless to the body.

Not sure where your ideas are coming from, but simply put, the whey proteins that remain from the isolation/concentration process (in making the protein powers in the first place) are robust and will not denature simply by rehydration.
Denaturation is not strong enough to break the peptide bonds, so the primary structure of proteins (the aa sequence) remains the same. This is basic biology. Hydrogen and amide bonds are destroyed during denaturation, resulting in the loss of alpha helix and beta sheets. This results in the polypeptide losing its normal biological activity and making it easier for digestive enzymes to do their job.

The idea that amino acids are destroyed somehow by mixing whey powder with water/milk is fascinating, but completely ridiculous.

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Shrimp wrote:

Maybe you need to try a different brand? also... Try putting the powder in a cheesecake there's loads of other things u can do with it too.

LOL ................... cheesecake love the idea but I am sure that would defeat the purpose.

Come on hard ................... the recipe PLEEEEEASE

davyjose

Brown_Eyed_Girl wrote:

Come on hard ................... the recipe PLEEEEEASE

And any nutritional info you might know such as kCals, fat content, protein, carbs, vitamins, artificial flavourings ... just kidding bout the last two !

Aedh Baclamh

Davy,

I make some bars, sound pretty much the same as hardgainers but I don't cook them.

Basically you get a cup of peanut butter and 8 tbsp of honey, put in the mic for no more than 80 secs...just keep an eye on it till it mixes nice and easy. Then in large bowl mix in a cup of uncooked oats, 1 and 1/4 cups of whey protein, and whatever else you want in it - raisins, some nuts, seeds etc...all to your taste. Then mix the two together. Add a drop of milk to make them stick better, but just a drop as you don't want it too soggy.

Then empty out on to a tray, flatten it out, leave to stand for 20 mins, cut it in to bars, put in fridge. Taste great too, I use ON double choc with mine.

Thanks to KWalsh for that btw

davyjose

Aedh Baclamh wrote:

Davy,

I make some bars, sound pretty much the same as hardgainers but I don't cook them.

Basically you get a cup of peanut butter and 8 tbsp of honey, put in the mic for no more than 80 secs...just keep an eye on it till it mixes nice and easy. Then in large bowl mix in a cup of uncooked oats, 1 and 1/4 cups of whey protein, and whatever else you want in it - raisins, some nuts, seeds etc...all to your taste. Then mix the two together. Add a drop of milk to make them stick better, but just a drop as you don't want it too soggy.

Then empty out on to a tray, flatten it out, leave to stand for 20 mins, cut it in to bars, put in fridge. Taste great too, I use ON double choc with mine.

Thanks to KWalsh for that btw

Awesome, thanks Aedh!:)

g'em

hardtrainer wrote:

Not sure where your ideas are coming from, but simply put, the whey proteins that remain from the isolation/concentration process (in making the protein powers in the first place) are robust and will not denature simply by rehydration.
Denaturation is not strong enough to break the peptide bonds, so the primary structure of proteins (the aa sequence) remains the same. This is basic biology. Hydrogen and amide bonds are destroyed during denaturation, resulting in the loss of alpha helix and beta sheets. This results in the polypeptide losing its normal biological activity and making it easier for digestive enzymes to do their job.

The idea that amino acids are destroyed somehow by mixing whey powder with water/milk is fascinating, but completely ridiculous.

Grand, I stand corrected on denaturation, it will only unfold the protein to a polypeptide level and not break the peptide bonds. But darn it there is validity in the idea of mixing up a shake and drinking it within 20 minutes but for the life of me I can't remember the details or find the reference I used to have - the smell of an unused shake in itself is enough but I distinctly remember reading a few papers about how the aa's themselves were weakened (was it that their conformation changed somehow?) during the isolation process, and dehydrated they remained stable for long periods of time, but after hydration became unstable again and likely to break down. I'll see can I find again but if I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'll just go and lift something heavy and take it out on the January n00bs

hardtrainer

G'em, I would say yes, drink your shake as soon as possible after making it, but only because of the taste. The aa's are not going to break down and it's no more nutritious in the first 20 mins than after 3 hours. The problem is that you will get a breakdown, especially if it is mixed with milk, of the overall taste and texture of the shake, which is really more to do with breakdown of the soy leictin that is used as an emulsifier in many of these shakes.

I would recommend that if you mix your protein with milk, treat it the way you would milk, i.e. keep it cool, preferably in a fridge, and consume within a couple of hours. If mixed with water, it will keep for half a day, but it will taste better if that time is spent in a fridge.

As for the protein bars. There's lots of recipes online for them. I bake mine on a low heat for 30 mins (it's really just to dry them out a bit and make them crunchy, which I prefer). Use crunchy peanut butter (2 cups) honey (half a cup) protein powder (3 scoops) mixed with oats (1 1/2 cups) and half a cup of nuts of your choice. Mix the protein powder with a little water (just enough to make a thickish paste) mix in with warmed peanut butter (use microwave for this), add the honey (again heated to make it runny) and then add the nuts, followed by the oats. It forms a very stiff crumbly mix. Spread out on cooking tray, place in oven at ~150º for 20-30 mins until dry. I find that they keep better this way and I also like the crunch of them, great with a pint of milk. You can forgo the cooking step though and just let them set in the fridge.

You can also add chocolate chips to them if you want :-)