Eircom relax their DSL test again, more passes

Sponge Bob

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/news.nv?storyid=single7629

has announced that it has extended the reach of broadband availability to cover customers already connected to broadband-enabled exchanges but whose line test previously failed due to the distance from the exchange.

Its about 6.7km now. Third increase in a year I makes it ...if not the fourth.

Bet nobody told their call centre about this though

t was now taking all orders placed within the five main urban areas of Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Waterford and Galway and urged customers in these areas whose lines failed broadband tests to get them re-tested

thefinalstage

**** sake! Even more contention on these crappy copper lines!

uncle_sam_ie

After six years of waiting it finally passed!!!!! I ordered the BB 2 MB HMPLUS TT Anytime from eircom. I hope it works out. I'm about 3.3 miles from the exchange as the crow flies so, the line is probably 4 miles. I entered a few numbers of people living near me and they all come up as fail. I think mine is passing because the line was once an ISDN line. Six years ago when I ordered ISDN the eircom guy said he needed to string a new one from the exchange.

uncle_sam_ie

I just wonder what speeds I'll really get being this far from the exchange.

Sponge Bob

1mbit or so, upgrading your package is free (but confirm with your chosen carrier) so start with 1mbit and then upgrade later if your DSL line stats indicate it can handle more than 1mbit

morningstars

" Eircom relax their anus again, more passes"

damien

Sponge Bob wrote:

Bet nobody told their call centre about this though

They were informed last week along with the resellers.

OfflerCrocGod

EVERYONE in the 5 major cities can now get €ircon or resellers BB then? Wow and it's only 2007:rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

damien.m wrote:

They were informed last week along with the resellers.

Funny how the eircom website has not been ' told ' , its still refusing to pass a line I know of in Galway or even to accept the order pending remedials

Slaanesh

No bleedin' use to me out in the stix. Crossing my fingers for 3 3g access.

uncle_sam_ie

I spoke with eircom today and was informed my order is due for completion on 30th of January. She said there was planned work to be done on the exchange. What would they need to do to the exchange? It's already DSL enabled.

Sponge Bob

Of more importance to many is that you may now order a NEW line through their website and order BB with the new line as part of the order . This applies anywhere in Ireland not just the 5 main cities.

Therefore if the line will not support BB they will not install the new line because they know from the start that you want this NEW line for BB. It will therefore cost nothing if it will not support Broadband.

This is a much better situation for many who had to order ' a line ' first and then subject themselves to the usual will it/won't it pass lottery thereafter.

damien

Sponge Bob wrote:

Therefore if the line will not support BB they will not install the new line because they know from the start that you want this NEW line for BB. It will therefore cost nothing if it will not support Broadband.

I rang eircom about this and they deny this is the case. They will install the line, then run the test, if the test fails then they'll add you to an "expression of interest" list to see can they offer you an alternative when the alternative (Wimax) arrives around autumn time.

Sponge Bob

But wimax is not available to put it simply. It will be a guaranteed fallback if yourline fails in the 5 big cities which is what Pierre told us last year. In rural areas it does not exist

My information is that the engineers precheck with the customer once they note that new line+bb combination is requested. If they cannot supply a unique pair the order may be cancelled by mutual agreement.

If they do supply a unique pair they check its not shorting and is a clean connection with decent SNR which means it will (about 99% sure) pass for BB .

Prisoner6409

I have been having problems with my BB speeds since Nov 06', I have lost approx 30% of my bandwith\BB speed. Initially my DL speeds were around 99kbps but since Nov they have dropped to around 65kbps. Eircom tell me they cannot find anything wrong although I suspect that it may be due to contention as they have recently signed up a lot more ppl for BB in my area since they opened the new exchange(farmleigh) and I have an idea my line may be one of those shared or carrier type lines. I am on a 1MB conection and at one point I tried upping to a 2MB conection but my line was not able for it. One of the Eircom techies suggested I could order a new line as my line is pretty old, however I think he may have said this as he could not think of anything else to do. Would installing a new line necessiarly improve my speeds and maybe even alow me to get a 3MB connection or are there other issues that need to be taken into consideration. I am only about 2 klicks from the exchange.

Sponge Bob

you are not on any shared anything and a new line may improve matters , cost €129 to find out.

OfflerCrocGod

I think the word you are looking for is "pairgain" prisoner.

mayhem#

Sponge Bob wrote:

But wimax is not available to put it simply. It will be a guaranteed fallback if yourline fails in the 5 big cities which is what Pierre told us last year. In rural areas it does not exist.

Is pricing info on their Wimax offering available yet?

E.

mayhem#

So basically Eircom lowers the requirements for a pass on a line and markets it as extending their broadband coverage.
Expect more crappy connections...

E.

thefinalstage

mayhem# wrote:

So basically Eircom lowers the requirements for a pass on a line and markets it as extending their broadband coverage.
Expect more crappy connections...

E.

Exactly!

lucernarian

mayhem# wrote:

So basically Eircom lowers the requirements for a pass on a line and markets it as extending their broadband coverage.
Expect more crappy connections...

E.

Crappy connections won't make too much difference to you. Sure there'll be less contention if there are more disconnects?

It will be interesting to hear reports of the engineer-aided DSL connections. Anyone going for them, let us know here!

One other thing: I know that if the modem does not work, one has the option of sending the modem back or getting the engineer visit. If the line works, but at a speed that doesn't really make it worthwhile, like 128 kbps or suchlike, can I send the modem back anyway and say that I don't want the service?

kaizersoze

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Crappy connections won't make too much difference to you. Sure there'll be less contention if there are more disconnects?

It will be interesting to hear reports of the engineer-aided DSL connections. Anyone going for them, let us know here!

One other thing: I know that if the modem does not work, one has the option of sending the modem back or getting the engineer visit. If the line works, but at a speed that doesn't really make it worthwhile, like 128 kbps or suchlike, can I send the modem back anyway and say that I don't want the service?

Eircom guarantee a minimum of 256k so if your speed was only 128k and they couldn't make it reach at least the minimum, then yes, you could send it back.

mayhem#

kaizersoze wrote:

Eircom guarantee a minimum of 256k so if your speed was only 128k and they couldn't make it reach at least the minimum, then yes, you could send it back.

I really, truly hope that you are joking.
256-f*ckin-k?!
And of course this will be presented to all and sundry as an great achievement by Eircon...

E.

uncle_sam_ie

mayhem# wrote:

I really, truly hope that you are joking.
256-f*ckin-k?!
And of course this will be presented to all and sundry as an great achievement by Eircon...

E.

The sad thing is that a lot of us that have been stuck on dial-up will be happy to get 256k always on.

thefinalstage

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

The sad thing is that a lot of us that have been stuck on dial-up will be happy to get 256k always on.

Go and do something about it! Get all of your neighbors together who care and protest outside the dail! Or as I said before,move to a city.

mayhem#

thelastangryman wrote:

Go and do something about it! Get all of your neighbors together who care and protest outside the dail! Or as I said before,move to a city.

I feel your pain..
;-)
I'm paying €299 a month at the moment for a 1 GB sat connection simply because there is no other option.
However that doesn't take away from the fact that Eircom is lowering instead of raising the level of service and somehow manages to make this look like a good thing.
Expect this information to be used in the Comreg's and the government's stats a lot..

E.

uncle_sam_ie

thelastangryman wrote:

Go and do something about it! Get all of your neighbors together who care and protest outside the dail! Or as I said before,move to a city.

I have rallied my neighbors for better internet access. Why don't you do something as well "like protest outside the dail", because like it or not eircom's monopoly is hurting Ireland as a whole.

thefinalstage

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

I have rallied my neighbors for better internet access. Why don't you do something as well "like protest outside the dail", because like it or not eircom's monopoly is hurting Ireland as a whole.

I tried! In the area I live people have "broadband" so they don't really see the point of improvment. I asked a lot of people (Approximately 120-150) last year and all (bar one) refused to protest with me so I gave up on the idea .Apparently only the tech savvy crowd care...which is very sad.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

Is pricing info on their Wimax offering available yet?.

Yes and No.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

I really, truly hope that you are joking.
256-f*ckin-k?!.

I'd expect that will make a lot on crappy dialup happier but maybe not satisfied. Flatrate quad ISDN is better than dialup.

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

Yes and No.

Does that mean that you have it but us mere mortals can't see it?
;-)

E.

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

I'd expect that will make a lot on crappy dialup happier but maybe not satisfied. Flatrate quad ISDN is better than dialup.

That's like saying that walking with one leg is better than crawling.
Neither of which is acceptable..

E.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

That's like saying that walking with one leg is better than crawling.
Neither of which is acceptable..

Getting broadband into an exchange and getting it to a customer is better than them having nothing. The rest of the dozens of issues can be worked on after that.

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

Getting broadband into an exchange and getting it to a customer is better than them having nothing. The rest of the dozens of issues can be worked on after that.

But are they enabling exchanges that weren't enabled?
I don't see any sign of that...

E.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

Does that man that you have it but us mere mortals can't see it?

And you said you read my blog! There's no independent product, you can only get this if your line fails so they are making sure you first have a bloody line so they gouge you with line rental and then they charge the same price as the DSL products although they won't say yet what the speeds are. They also catch you with an install fee which has not yet been disclosed.

Sponge Bob

That install fee has historically been , and still is , € 732.05 (inc. VAT) / € 605 (ex. VAT) for the single eircom wireless bb product which is currently pre pre pre wimax (ie not wimax at all at all all )

While eircom now allow you to order a line with / line for BB they have not yet clearly announced whether they consider their newer unreleased wimax product to be a line substitute at line install rates (€129 inc vat) or a separate product at the historic price.

€600 difference is a big variable . I would personally hesitate to make any categoric comment that would or could commit any boards reader to an extra expenditure of €600 at this point in time.

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

And you said you read my blog! There's no independent product, you can only get this if your line fails so they are making sure you first have a bloody line so they gouge you with line rental and then they charge the same price as the DSL products although they won't say yet what the speeds are. They also catch you with an install fee which has not yet been disclosed.

Relax...
I was only referring to the pricing of Eircom's wimax product.
Are they subsidising/providing the CPE or does the customer have to purchase this seperately?

E.

mcaul

Slaanesh wrote:

No bleedin' use to me out in the stix. Crossing my fingers for 3 3g access.

what area do you live in? - I have a fair bit of travelling to do over the next couple of weeks (mainly Leinster & north Munster) and will have laptop & 3 3G service with me - if I'm anywhere near your area I can check it out and report back.

Sponge Bob

there are 2 products in the pipeline , minimum 2.

technically they may be similar ...or not.

1. is for the 5 main urban centres as a line substitute under certain circumstances
2. is for the rest of us

no prices or terms or caqtegoric linkages have been released that I know of , Damiens blog is ummmmmm unsearchable but you could click thru this lot

http://www.irishblogs.ie/?s=wimax&sort=date&posts_per_page=30&feed=rss2

uncle_sam_ie

Well,its seems none of my neighbors can get BB. I guess having an ISDN line is what saved me from not getting a fail.Is an ISDN copper line different from what they would have? My line Attenuation is 61/31 dB and my speed is 1.69Mbps down, 112kbps up(it's a lot better than I was expecting).

Sponge Bob

damn fast for 61db .

uncle_sam_ie

Sponge Bob wrote:

damn fast for 61db .

Would the fact that there might not be as many people using BB out here make it go faster?

kaizersoze

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

Well,its seems none of my neighbors can get BB. I guess having an ISDN line is what saved me from not getting a fail.Is an ISDN copper line different from what they would have? My line Attenuation is 61/31 dB and my speed is 1.69Mbps down, 112kbps up(it's a lot better than I was expecting).

The only difference is you'd have a nice clean line back to the exchange, no splitters. Your neighbours are probably pairgained to the hilt.

uncle_sam_ie

kaizersoze wrote:

The only difference is you'd have a nice clean line back to the exchange, no splitters. Your neighbours are probably pairgained to the hilt.

I'm also wondering when their lines were put in. They look very antiquated.

lucernarian

If all the rest of the neighbours fail and you have only 61 dB attenuation it's nearly certainly because of pairgains. It seems like Eircom high-speed had it's uses after all:p

If the wiring is older there is the risk of old or failing junction boxes or cables, but the cables could also be thicker than newer cables. You could tell you have no neighbours with DSL with such a high speed for 61 dB. That's one very good line.

Btw, Could you tell me the Signal Margin or Signal to Noise ratio (specify which) in the modem diagnostics?? I'm very interested to see what a line of that length can do.

uncle_sam_ie

To_be_confirmed wrote:

If all the rest of the neighbours fail and you have only 61 dB attenuation it's nearly certainly because of pairgains. It seems like Eircom high-speed had it's uses after all:p

If the wiring is older there is the risk of old or failing junction boxes or cables, but the cables could also be thicker than newer cables. You could tell you have no neighbours with DSL with such a high speed for 61 dB. That's one very good line.

Btw, Could you tell me the Signal Margin or Signal to Noise ratio (specify which) in the modem diagnostics?? I'm very interested to see what a line of that length can do.

Is this what you want? Success rate is 100 percent (4/4)
round-trip min/avg/max = 160/180/230 msec
crc errors down 190 / up 0
db Downstream 8.00 / upstream 6.00 - are they good or bad? It has never disconneted on me.

uncle_sam_ie

Their lines look wide and thick almost like tape. Mine is a round cable which was stung new from the exchange. Well, thats what the eircom tech told me at the time. I wonder if my line was stung at a shorter distance from the exchange. Theirs could be going all over the place. What do pairgains look like?

Sponge Bob

log into modem, diagnostics and dsl stats upstream and downstream . how long is that line again ..we are curious at how far out the 2mb package works you will gather

max speed for 2mb is actually 1.7 mb down because of overhead so you are full speed eircom 2mb your upstream is not as good, giz the stats from diagnostics there too

uncle_sam_ie

Downstream
Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps)
2048
256
SN Margin (dB)
8.00
6.00
Line Attenuation (dB)
61.00
31.50
CRC Errors
231
0
I just tested my speed and it was 1.60Mbs down 104 kbps up ( tested on internetfrog)
Pinging 163.176.4.31
Received reply
Received reply
Received reply
Received reply
Success rate is 100 percent (4/4)
round-trip min/avg/max = 160/162/170 msec

So, is this good or bad?

lucernarian

If that's the signal margin then that's OK. I'm suprised at the lowish upload speed as that is meant to be a better signal than the download (lower atttenuation, 31 instead of 61). The lower signal margin value for the upload could be a clue though.

Another thought is that mabye eircom changed the way the new 24000 people who passed can connect. The download speed could be unlimited, as they might presume they can only use 1 Mbit or less. But if 1.69 Mbits is the average figure for a 2 Mbit line then that's unlikely. Edit: Your max allowed figures just posted rule out this possibility.

Eircom's calculations for 61 dB attenuation on ordinary wire is about 5 km. But you would have passed the broadband test before now?? The old limit was 66 dB, the new one is 80 dB at most.

uncle_sam_ie

this is the result from internetfrog
Download: 1,608,576 bps
Upload: 105,200 bps
QOS: 83%
RTT: 157 ms
MaxPause: 271 ms