Interesting Laydown (Aussie millions)

58o

Saw discussion bout this on pocket fives thought i'd post it here and see what the opinion was. SO sick laydown or donkey/lucky laydown. ( the Hachem in this hand is Joe Hacems brother)

Blinds 50 / 100

Button raises to 500, Hachem in BB calls 400 with 55

Board comes 858

Hachem checks, Villain bets 2000, Hachem C/R to 7000 Villain calls.

Turn comes a 9

Hachem checks, Villain bets 5000, Hachem calls.

River comes a J

Hachem checks, Villain goes all in (15000),

Hachem folds showing 55, Villain shows JJ

Bandara

Got to give him the benefit of the doubt, he somehow felt he was behind and went with his gut.

Genius in my opinion.

Shadowless

Shove Turn

He must of had a sick read.

gilmour

tony hachems check call on the turn after reraising the flop was quite an odd play - i along with 99.9% of poker players go bust on this hand

bops

makes no sense whatsoever to me - but what would i know??

MrPillowTalk

Terrible fold he gets shown A8 K8 or 78 way more often than an over house.

RasTa

Apparently he was thinking for 5mins and got your man to talk and then folded face up.

cardshark202

He played this hand so badly. Donk play. His opponent bets JJ after that flop cr and Hachem still folds. This is just awful awful stuff.

Lazare

How can anyone say this guy is a genius?
Check raising a flopped boat! What a donkey play.*
Looks like a scared TLS laydown to me.


*There is a chance he showed a couple of bluff check raises (his opponent did call after all, with JJ), if so, it was a good play.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

I dunno, I don't think I've ever been in a position to make this lay down, I would have shipped it before the river anyway tho, but I don't think it's an impossible one to make if he puts the other guy on an op after the flop, the guy shoves when the jack appears and looks pretty comfortable when he gets him talking. Folding face up is a little silly imo...

He played this really badly.vast majority of the time this is a terrible fold tho.

Hitman Actual

If he's Ted Hachems brother then you have to give him the benefit of the doubt that he can actually play a bit. Maybe there was some history between the two players which caused Hachem jr to play the hand so strangely. The CR on the flop definately looks like something you'd only do due to something that happened previously in the game, and if that's the case I don't think it's all that bad.

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Terrible fold he gets shown A8 K8 or 78 way more often than an over house.

I'm not convinced of this, tbh. A8, maybe, but K8 or 78? The villain knows at this stage that Hachem likes his hand, so I think he often checks K8 or 78 behind on the river. Would he really push with K8 or 78 on the river, and expect to get called by a hand that he beats?

eoghan104

I think its a good laydown.

If the story was about a boardsie playing the aussie millions it would be heralded as a great laydown so why not the same for this guy?

jimbling

eoghan104 wrote:

I think its a good laydown.

If the story was about a boardsie playing the aussie millions it would be heralded as a great laydown so why not the same for this guy?

cause he's not a boardsie of course :rolleyes:

ianmc38

he played the hand badly but there is no doubting it's a fantastic laydown on the river.

strewelpeter

Folding that face up => genius

BigCityBanker

ianmc38 wrote:

he played the hand badly but there is no doubting it's a fantastic laydown on the river.

..

Ste05

TBH, what he did on the River doesn't really matter, because he butchered every other street. Check raising the flop, then check calling the turn. Complete donkey, he obviously just got lucky to lay this down, or suffers from TLS just to add to his other Poker problems. Although, I'm sure it'll look fantastic for the telly (as it worked out brilliantly for him) and he'll be heralded as a Poker genius.

BTW who was the Villain here, he over bets the Flop, then under bets the turn, basically pot committing himself to a CRAI??

phantom_lord

lol, yeah those flop and turn bets are crazy.

cardshark202

He played the hand so so badly that his laydown on the river is irrelevant. This is really shocking stuff. Even if you take the angle that he played the hand this way for metagame reasons, it actually almost makes it worse because its a tournament, you will never play long enough with the player to take advantage of it. His opponent did his best to try go broke on the turn with just a weak overpair and he thinks his opponent won't shove AA or KK on the river. I really doubt its a great laydown. About as good as Joe Hachem's AK fold in the WSOP only to be shown AQ. This is really really bad.

MrPillowTalk

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I go broke here if we get to that river - but I'm shoving the turn in any case.

I suppose that on this forum we don't reallly believe much in edges derived from physchological battles and physical tells (lot of online players - good live players are too smart to give off "tells") - as such, that laydown is never going to be heralded here.

If Hachem deliberated for 5 mins, put the guy on a hand, got him talking, considered his previous actions and history at the table, and finally came to a conclusion that he was beat (folding face - up :eek: ): then I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that it was a great laydown.

Mr Pillow Talk laid down KK to AA on a low raggy board in the first couple of hands of the Dublin EPT. I would have gone broke there also. Read Eoin's blog though, and he laid it down for reasons outside of the normal discussion tools such as "hand - ranges" and "pot - odds".

I go broke in both cases because I figure the Aussie Millions villian does that with a range of hands I beat - I go broke in the EPT because I include JJ and QQ as part of the villian's range in that case. Maybe Hachem (and MPT) are just better players than me??

There are a couple of differences in my hand in the ept and this one that are important. In the hand I played I only had 1000 in the pot if the guy had checked to me I would have bet and then I basically never would have gotten away from it, also everything about the way it played pointed towards AA.

In this hand Hachem has called off a large chunk of his stack and also villains play really screams A8 K8 or 89 78 to me, he flat calls a cr then bets what looks like a value bet on the turn, then when Hachem flat calls the turn if I was villain I would be thinking "he has to have a bare eight or maybe AA KK any other playable hand reraises there" hence you have to bet the river for value, the fact that he had JJ just shows they are both donkeys