Three 3g service, how do I go about it?

Slaanesh

Niallb came over to my house last Friday to see if I could get a vodafone 3g signal with his setup. Unfortunately the max we could get was a gprs signal which was quite poor. Much thanks to Niall for helping me out by the way!

He queried the modem with a few commands and all the networks popped up displaying only gprs capabilities, however there was a 3 mast somewhere that said it was 3g capable. I'm quite interested now to see if I could get a 3 3g signal. Niallb didn't have a 3 sim card so we couldn't test to see if we could get a lock.

What would be the cheapest way of seeing can I get a signal?

If I got a 3 sim somewhere I could use Niall's Vodafone USB modem and try for a signal. Perhaps I could buy a 3 3g phone and try for a signal that way? I have a very old laptop that has a PCMCIA card slot, not sure if it's the 32bit required for the 3 datacard. I don't really want to waste money for something that might not work so I'm essentially trying to find the cheapest way of testing!

Sponge Bob

a 3g phone with a sim from 3 if you can borrow the phone and buy the sim for about €15 . You will need a steady 1 bar of 3g signal from 3 indoors according to anecdotal reports of tests of 3g data in order to beat gprs .

Slaanesh

Do 3 do sim packs though?

Sponge Bob

thinks so but not 100% sure, soz.

daelight

Sponge Bob wrote:

You will need a steady 1 bar of 3g signal from 3 indoors according to anecdotal reports of tests of 3g data in order to beat gprs .

Well here's a real report ... I have no bars at all here (just the antenna symbol) and getting upto 30Kb/sec , averaging 15Kb/sec downloads with 3 service - very happy

I must say also that I have used just about every 3G datacard product in bout UK and Ireland (previous job saw me test out this sort of stuff) and I am most impressed with this 3 package. The Huawei 630 card performs surpurbly and I only drops connection once or twice in a full day, which considering the boarderline coverage I have here, is very commendable. As ever, its the datacard software that has always been the weak point with all providers and with 3 it is no differnet. Clunky application that misreports data usage so grab yourself Bitmeter II if you want to monitor your bandwidth usage accuratly. I just connect via the windows connection profile. Simple.

Regards

Slaanesh

Thanks for the info Daelight.

Is it possible to get a sim-pack with the 3 datacard?

daelight

I don't think it is Slaanesh - you'd need to take one on with a contract.

But let's put it this way. I called the freephone number and got the data card 3 working days later. Worked right out of the box, no fuss. There's a 14 day guarantee (long-distance selling laws) so you can have it collected from your door if it all goes pete-tong in that time.

Give them a shout - its free .. of course the sales people will tell you anything but I have had to use their customer service about 5 times to check my data usage and got through straight away to 5 helpful scottish folk. Ah yes, but wait til I get the first bill you say ... indeed ...

Oh - and when I was asking about coverage they could give me very detailed info - right up to what streets and distances were covered. Smart.

culabula

Slaanesh wrote:

What would be the cheapest way of seeing can I get a signal?



If I got a 3 sim somewhere I could use Niall's Vodafone USB modem and try for a signal. Perhaps I could buy a 3 3g phone and try for a signal that way? I have a very old laptop that has a PCMCIA card slot, not sure if it's the 32bit required for the 3 datacard. I don't really want to waste money for something that might not work so I'm essentially trying to find the cheapest way of testing!

Can't you just do a network search with a 3G handset?

The Vodafone USB modem is locked, you cannot put a 3 SIM in it.

culabula

Slaanesh wrote:

Do 3 do sim packs though?

3IRL do NOT do SIM packs or sim-only deals. Note also that a 3UK or other SIM will not function in the 3IRL datacard.

culabula

daelight wrote:

Give them a shout - its free .. of course the sales people will tell you anything but I have had to use their customer service about 5 times to check my data usage and got through straight away to 5 helpful scottish folk. Ah yes, but wait til I get the first bill you say ... indeed ...

Oh - and when I was asking about coverage they could give me very detailed info - right up to what streets and distances were covered. Smart.

Why did you need to ring them? The datacard's interface gives you continuous details of your usage....

Slaanesh

Sorry I guess I was asking do you get a sim card with the data card contract?

I have rang them about coverage and they said I wasn't 3g covered(Kilmessan). I'm just interested that Niall picked up their base station.

Niall queried the vodafone USB modem and it was apparently unlocked.

culabula

Slaanesh wrote:

Sorry I guess I was asking do you get a sim card with the data card contract?

I have rang them about coverage and they said I wasn't 3g covered(Kilmessan). I'm just interested that Niall picked up their base station.

Niall queried the vodafone USB modem and it was apparently unlocked.

My modem was quite definitely locked.

Yes, a SIM is supplied with the data card (can be used in a 3G handset for calls).

Slaanesh

Is there a cooling off period where I could perhaps return it if there was no signal at all?

Thanks for your replies by the way.

culabula

Sure is: you have 14 days in which to return it.

Slaanesh

Worth a shot so,
thanks again!

culabula

Tis what I keep saying to people: worth getting both out! You can leave either or both back if they do not suit.

Blaster99

You may want to verify that you can return the product opened and used within 14 days. The statutory protection is 7 days and is a cool-off period, not a trial period.

culabula

I have both modems and have returned one: The Vodafone product offers a "no-quibble" 28-day return policy while the 3 datacard is 14 days. Three told me that if it was "unsatisfactory", "did not perform as expected" etc., then I could return it. Clearly the product would have to be opened and tested.

Slaanesh

Hoping to get the 3 datacard either today or tomorrow. Just a little concerned, when I Was home last night I went around the house with the phone doing manual network search and could only find the usual, O2, voda and meteor. No 3 at all.

In work today(Dorset Street), Dublin, I did the same search but no 3 either. Do you need a special phone to pick up 3?

culabula

If there's no 3, your datacard will roam onto Voodoo and give you GPRS speeds. If that doesn't suit, you have 14 days to bring it back.

matthiku

I went through the same procedure right before Christmas. I rang the 3 support hotline and they told me honestly that there is no 3G cover in my area (1km east of Spancilhill) and there are no plans as of now to extend it to that area.

I ordered it anyway and initially could only get GPRS (via Voda) on our first floor. When I did a test drive coming from Ennis (which has 3G) with a Laptop, we discovered that the signal weakens and trails off at about 1 km to the west from my house. So I went into the attic - and bingo! Here was the 3 Signal!

Meanwhile I also bought an external antennae for the Huawei 630 and now I get a steady 5 bars on the signal meter! I left an old Laptop in the attic acting as a gateway (Internet Connection Sharing) and use it via LAN from the other computers in the house.

However, as of now, I only get ~ 420 kbps Download and ~ 90 kbps Upload, also the ping time is very bad, > 350 ms!

You can change the profile in the datacard software to pick up only 3G signals, in case the other signals are much stronger.

Sponge Bob

culabula is right there but its the reported connection speed that tells you that the card is connecting to voodoo 2g data and not 3 3g data , voodoo sort of pretends to be 3 where 3 is not yet available .

if it reports 43k or 56k speed then its not making a 3g connection.

niallb

@Slaanesh.
Just to confirm the vodafone USB modem IS locked.
When I said I thought it was unlocked, I said that it's
unlocked if that's what a '0' meant.

You're welcome to pick up the dish and mount on your way home
if you get the card. Hold onto it for a few days, and see how you get on.
I think you have my number, PM if you don't.

I'd suggested getting your hands on a 3 phone before you commit to the data card, but if you can bring it back, then go for it.

We definitely picked up a "3" signal in your house with my dish setup.
Just as definitely no vodafone :-(

Anyone with the vodafone modem can see all detected networks by typing
AT+COPS=? into hyperterminal or minicom attached to the modem.
Turn off the dashboard thing first. AT+CPIN=**** will let you type in your
PIN if the card complains (Replace **** with your own PIN!)
From my experience, there is a ,2 at the end of the string describing
3G capable signals.



Good luck!
NiallB

culabula

The software itself tells you it's connected to Voodoo; I received a reported speed of 278k between Balbriggan and Drogheda on Monday night while migrated to them.

niallb

The AT command above tells you all detected networks,
whether you can connect to them or not.
If I could get it to tell me comparative signal strengths, that'd be great,
but can't do that yet.

NiallB

culabula

niallb wrote:

The AT command above tells you all detected networks,
whether you can connect to them or not.
If I could get it to tell me comparative signal strengths, that'd be great,
but can't do that yet.

NiallB

Sorry, I was referring to the software supplied with the 3 datacard which informs you when you are roaming with Vodafone GPRS/EDGE

Sponge Bob

thats fine so culabula. Get the card on trial and if it does not explicitly say you are connected to 3 then you are not getting a 3g signal from 3 . It could still be better than the **** copper that eircom 'supplies' in rural areas , even at GPRS rates.

Slaanesh

Thanks for the info lads.

The card is supposed to be delivered today, woohoo.
Ordered yesterday, that's quick.

culabula

Hope it works as well for you as it does for me (except for yesterday when it didn't work at all). Keep us posted.

niallb

Happy hunting.
I'm connected now with the Nokia 6680 using the 3G data SIM,
and getting a better signal unaided than I did with the USB modem.
The signal's as good as the E220 was with the dish behind it.

Unfortunately the 6680 is also locked to Voda :-(

At the moment I'm connecting to the 6680 via bluetooth which is
bringing my speed down, but it's still well over 100k, and there's
no need for satellite dish on a stick in the living room :-)

The pings look like this, fine for me, but probably not for gaming.

Pinging www.boards.ie [82.195.136.250] with 32 bytes of data:
    Minimum = 265ms, Maximum = 311ms, Average = 289ms

Really interested in how 3 works out.
Keep me posted,
NiallB

Slaanesh

Posting this from my 3 connection which is very difficult because I have the laptop perched sideways on the window sill with 1 bar of GPRS signal. oh well, wirse than dialup

niallb

Well, you have signal with just the card!
Does it tell you which network you're locked onto?

Is there a socket for an antenna on the card?

Can you get the laptop up into the attic?
I tried it myself and so did matthiku,
getting it up high makes a lot of difference.
Even stand it on a stack of books, or put a steel tray behind it :-)

This kind of antenna should make a big difference seeing as you have some signal.
I'm in the process of ordering something from expansys.
Now the connection is working, I need to make it less obtrusive!

NiallB

niallb

A suggestion if you're finding it real slow at one bar.
Can you try and change the MTU value for the modem connection?
I'm no windows expert, so you may have to google how to do it.
There are tools you can download to change the settings,
or you can go straight in to the registry.
There's one here I've heard of before.
Try dropping it way down (start at 576, and work up towards 1492
in multiples of 8 until performance starts to degrade again), and see
if your performance increases. The link will still be lossy, but you'll
lose less each time something is dropped.

NiallB

matthiku

niallb wrote:

(...)

This kind of antenna should make a big difference seeing as you have some signal.
I'm in the process of ordering something from expansys.NiallB

Looking at those prices I'm disgusted that I fell again into that trap of buying something overprized form the UK! I paid at least 100% more there!!!

My advice: look it up in UK stores (due to the language) and when you found the right thing, buy it in Germany (or France, for that matter, which is equally cheap)...

Slaanesh

Well lads,

I brought a laptop home from work that had more than 30 seconds battery power and I was able to bring it up into the attic.

1-2 bar of GPRs coverage on Voda so I just set it to 3g only. Didn't get anything .... I then held the laptop up as high as I could and *BANG* almost full 3g coverage, only at the apex of the house. It's too painful to hold it up that long to run any tests!

Niall, did you get that aerial in the end? I'm gonna have to get a long extension lead and run my old laptop into the attic. The aerial might do the job for me too. Nowhere to bloody walk or anything in the attic so I want to make sure it's worth my while going through all the effort of making the attic a bit safer for working in It also said the card connected at 3.6Mbps, sounds a bit fast.

jimmycrackcorm

A long aerial lead can produce a db signal loss and might affect signal quality.

StickyMcGinty

Slaanesh wrote:

Sorry I guess I was asking do you get a sim card with the data card contract?

I have rang them about coverage and they said I wasn't 3g covered(Kilmessan). I'm just interested that Niall picked up their base station.

Niall queried the vodafone USB modem and it was apparently unlocked.

Kilmessan Co. Meath?

My girlfriends from there, i've been trying to sort out a decent connection for her for ages.

can you let me know how you get on with the 3 datacard?

niallb

Hi,
I've got a pretty solid connection most of the time now.
I didn't order the antenna yet - suffered a shoulder injury
which is filling my week with physio etc.

What I've done is moved my SIM to a Nokia 6680 which is
more portable and has a better radio than the Vodafone USB one.
It's in the "sweet spot" in the living room
(plugged in on charge), and I connect to it using a bluetooth dongle
through the wall. It also means I can grab it when I leave the house
without unplugging anything :-)
I've also got a Nokia USB cable on an extension which works
just as well.

I'd be happy to give you a hand setting up the old laptop
as a permanent access point in your attic.
I've one here set up to share the 3G through the house via wired and wireless, and offer ISDN backup if I've a bad weather day on the 3G.
I have a few old PCMCIA ethernet cards too if you need one.
I'll be in tomorrow evening if you're about.
I'd like to check out the Three card as well having seen both of Vodafone's.

I'm trying to pick up a three 3G phone to allow me scan for service in
other locations. I'd appreciate if you could check one nearby location for me!

Good to hear about your progress.

NiallB

Slaanesh

I've decided it's too much effort for little gain. The main use of broadband in my house I'm guessing would be gaming and I don't think the three card would be suitable. I had it in work getting full 3g reception and the pings spiked to 1000ms quite frequently and only bottomed out about 150ms.

Have to return it before the 14 days anyway. Looks like the broadband search continues. Thanks for your help Niall.

Crummy2

slaanish, did you ever get BB in kilmessan?

Moving there in a couple of weeks....

thanks.

watty

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

A long aerial lead can produce a db signal loss and might affect signal quality.

http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm

loosing 3dB is 1/2 the signal
6dB is down to 1/4 the signal

For 10m (33ft) @ GSM 900
RG174 = 10.3dB
RG58 = 5.9dB
RG213 = 2.5dB
LMR 400 = 1.3dB

For 10m (33ft) @ 3G
RG174 = 18dB
RG58 = 8.9dB
RG213 = 4.3dB
LMR 400 = 2.2dB

Conclusion:
The "pigtail" cable, RG174 or similar is ONLY for pigtails!
RG58 (normal 6mm ish cable as used for ethernet and 50 Ohm Radio, RG59 & RG6 are 75 Ohm) is only for aerial pigtails or SMA (or FME) pigtail to N-Connectors.

RG213 (nearly 3/4" diameter), using N-Connectors, is only just suitable as long as your outdoor aerial budget takes the 3dB to 6dB loss into account.

For more than 10m, or for weaker signals you absolutely need LMR400 (screw on compression N-Connector. No specialist tools, Spanners, Hacksaw & file to fit connectors).

Andrews Heliax LDF6-50A is 0.5dB @ 10m for 3G. and you can have 65m before it gets to 3dB. It's the kind of stuff the phone companies run up 15m to 30m masts However LMR-400 is MUCH cheaper and isn't like working with 1" water pipe.